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Student
Posts: 60
Location: South Central Wisconsin | I am reader of vastly different subjects, science and human biology studies, in particular, fascinate me. I read this week about research that seemed to prove that indeed your environment affects your DNA (DNA can switch into being active or inactive based on input of your environment). The article also pointed to research that showed that our brains are still creating personality pathways until around the age of 40, give or take. Then I began to think about some things I have studied or believe personally about personality. Some beliefs are that you are essentially the same personality all your life and do not deviate ( refering to enneagram studies on the 9 basic personalities and other similar tools). Other beliefs are that you are constantly changing for your entire life. Both seem to disagree with this research. So the question I put to you is this, how do you react to new research that may disagree with your current beliefs or tools you use in counseling people. Do you simply note it as interesting, then continue as usual with no changes in your beliefs or practice. Or do you assimilate new science and ancient beliefs or practice into a new belief or practice. I am intrigued by this predicament this can place on a practitioner or even just an average person.
My answer: I believe I am a hybrid thinker. I have adjusted my thinking on a number of beliefs based on the revelations of science, but saving room for the mystical and unexplained. For example I am more open to believe that personality can indeed evolve for more years than I originally believed, and have changed some of the ways that I counsel querants.
I await your ideas and responses.
Blessed Be
Marsha Z
P.S.
The article I read was in Newsweek, Dec 1 issue titled: When DNA is not destiny for those interested | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 1882
  
Location: NE Ohio | Hello Marsha I personally believe that we change as our environment changes. We have to change to adapt to our surroundings, yet I also agree that our physiological DNA is there, and also incubates or becomes active as needed. Say for instance someone has certain proned cells that are inherited. But the cells are not active, due to better health habits. It is in our hands to help keep those DNA passed down mutations hidden. As far as personality. I have to agree with many of the psychologists out there like Freud, Piaget, etc. We all learn our own lessons and either grow, or become stuck in old ways. I also feel we change in personality, because our brains are constantly learning more input. I feel it's impossible to remain the same, if we keep learning more. Those who don't open the mind to learn more, may find themselves in that stuck state of being. The science of things just cannot explain the possibilities of our personality or full identity surviving past human life. I am currently reading a dialog between a Pastor, a Teacher of Philosophy, and a former student. Only the teacher is dying and thinks it will be the end of her identity (personality). This is not comforting to her. She is trying to find some kind of truth or FACT in reason or probability that her personality or "herself" will survive death. Not sure it can be done for everyone. Here is why I believe: When you have a full conversation with someone who is already dead. While in waking state, it tends to change the belief system. No matter what age, experience does change the mere thought of life not existing. When the feet are on the ground most the time, and you keep having "experiences", it answers for you. It's personal though, because I could never prove it to anyone. I had it happen and those who know me, believe me. Those who don't, won't. Those who believe it is impossible, will make up an excuse and call it anything but what it was. I could go on and on, because I LOVE this topic. Thank you! | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | Hmm ... these thoughts are what prompted that old thread back in the vaults somewhere, 'Personal Proofs of God' ... one of the best proofs for me is the snowflake ... | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 750
| ah the snowflake,perffection in its symetry,wrong spelling iris,just as the dandelion that most discard as a weed,seeing it as a useless flower that spoils their pretty shop bought flowers,and their garden,whilst in fact,if you were to look reaaly closely at that dandelion,its symetry is also perfect,as are many so called weeds,these weeds collected together,make the most beutiful garden of life,true nature in all her wonder,a free gift to lift the spirit,with all colours ready to heal,am i going on a bit too much here,oh well never mind,marsha forgive me,i am not ignoring your post,i got confused between the practioner and the ordinary human,both the same ,if i read some research that went against my true belefs,i would consider,listen to my intuition, then act acordingly,but,to me science etc,changes its mind so often,and what was once set in stone,through research,changes insatanly,many many years later,to a new theory,just as life on earth,and what lies beyond,many theories,one fact,as for personality,i say we always are the same personality,but our beleifs change many times,questioning,broadens our horizon,our knowledge,but our basic I stays the same,irisx | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | Perfect unique symmetry, yet each one different, combined with total transiency [like humans seen from the eternal perspective perhaps, with the addition of consciousness - if that is, snowflakes do not have consciousness ...] ... who but a perfectly wise but profoundly foolish God would or could create such, and conversely, how could such be formed by 'pure chance' ?? !! ... of the psychologists I would also add Jung as one of the more metaphysical ...
Edited by Paul Joseph 12/1/2008 4:58 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 750
| yeah!and i think jung is good too,, | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom |  | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 1882
Location: NE Ohio | I haven't been able to study much of Jung, for some reason his work is never in my psychology books, while he is mentioned, it never goes into details. I would like to eventually learn more about him, because I do recall being told that he was the most open minded of them all. Someday I will learn a lot more on him.
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | Just to offer some modest Jungian pointers, he was amongst Freud's earliest pupils, and indeed in the early days, Freud called him his 'crown prince'.
Jung started professionally as a psychiatrist, with studies of mental illness (the second volume of his 18 volume collected works was based on his Word Association tests); whereas Freud commenced his work with studies of neurosis. This important difference of origin may have led Jung to be more sympathetic in later life to his own 'breakdown', or, as he termed it, his 'confrontation with the unconscious'.
The relationship between Freud and Jung broke down, I recall, from their trip across the Atlantic together where each day, each would offer their own dream to the other for interpretation. On one occasion Freud refused to offer his dream of the previous evening to Jung. According to Jung from that point, he lost his faith in Freud. For Freud's part, he claimed that he rescued psychoanalysis from the 'black tide of occultism', in which Jung was interested.
For myself, I think that the work of Freud and that of Jung have different things to offer to different stages of development. From the perspective of the 'British School' of psychoananalysis, we would also need to add in i think at least, Melanie Klein and D W Winnicott (each of whom I have cited on other threads).
Klein deals with infant trauma/anxiety, Freud with the early years, Jung with later life, and spirituality, Winnicott has a humane approach to play and transition. Arguably, Freud's particular contribution was the 'discovery' of the inner world of the emotions; Bettelheim also thinks he was mistranslated terribly, and that his concept of the 'id' of the unconscious is better rendered as our understanding of 'the soul' ('Freud and Man's Soul').
Freud was pursued out of Germany by the Nazis, else they would have burnt him rather than his books. I say that because there has been persistent debate as to whether Jung (Swiss) was anti-semitic, based on writings in his volume 10, civilization in transition. There, he seeks to discern racial or national differences. There has been much debate on this, for which reference would also need to be made to Jung's collected letters, where he explains that he was seeking to enable Jewish practising psychotherapists to continue to practice, in circumstances where otherwise, psychotherapy would have been abolished.
My own reading of Jung is that he sought to discern the spiritual potential within psychotherapy, and much of his later writings was focused on transformation, alchemy and liberation.
Hope that is helpful.
.... how funny Jillifer - you were not logged on when I started writing the above and just as I finish you have logged on ! What synchronicity (btw, a term coined by Jung when he was writing about the I Ching)
Edited by Paul Joseph 12/1/2008 4:06 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2118
Location: The Heart of Space | Hi all:
I have never really considered an "overview" of each man and thank PeeJay for doing a very good one.
I think each man had very telling and meaningful contributions to a "soft" science, and I tend to focus on areas of interest. Hence , I think that "Delusion and Dream" is masterful, to the respect that it is what "Gradiva" is, in essence...and I have no reason to believe that Jensen didn't do what all writers do...and that is write what he experienced.
PeeJ...what I find most interesting is that:
Freud + Author (Jensen) = Delusion and Dream
Author (Davies) + Jung = Delusion and Dream
If you have not, than I beg of you to read "The Deptford Trilogy" by the recently deceased Canadian author Robertson Davies. Pay particular attention to "The Manticore (Book2)".That is great Jungian stuff....then slide into Book3, which, again, plants our feet as roots of Freud.
When I first read it many years ago, I was on a rollercoaster....and many years later, I am always up for another ride...even though I know the next ride might be my last....read the trilogy and you will understand.
I hope you do as you will see a light...and the passing of knowledge!
Sincerely,
Marty and Clan of the Bearcats, Luck, Popp, and Siss
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 1882
Location: NE Ohio | Thanks for all the good suggestions and info.
My book list is growing by the day..... I have more to read than days left to read them, but will sure give them all a shot.
Blessings~
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | whythank ye kindly Sir Marty-O .... must check out that book ... Ursula K Le Guin also, I feel, wrote Earthsea well under the influence of Jung .... and I omited so many things, such as, Freud's contribution to understanding groups (GroupPsychology and the analysis of the Ego), death, literature , etc etc ...but as has been said he had a tendency towards reductionism, hence Jung's wider and more spiritually 'upward' drift ... and I also blanked out on Jung's contribution of the Archetypes, his psychologcal perspectives on Yoga, UFOs, Psychological Types, comparitive mythology (picked up by Joseph Campbell) ... the list could go on but I won't ... nice comments, again
Ken Wilber has done a much deeper synthesis of all this and more, of course .... his collected works are magisterial also ...
so much to read, experience, meditate on, places to go, people to see ... no wonder we need many lifetimes !!! | |
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Student
Posts: 60
Location: South Central Wisconsin | Thanks for the info... my computer has its version of narcolepsy and has been out of commission for a while, so sorry my thanks is so late...
Along these same lines...We as humans have gained so much knowledge of the workings of nature and explaining how things work that I wonder if it can affect how profoundly spiritual experiences are seen now as to what they used to be hundreds of years ago. For instance, we see so many movies with special effect and mind boggling stories, that a dream may not seem so exciting to a person in this day and age as it would have 300 years ago...like dreaming of battling angels or great disasters....are we missing the profound by overlooking the simple messages?
Blessed Be
Marsha Z | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | Agree with you so much there Marsha Z
... and how interesting that science now is getting so much interested in NDE's - yet spiritual seers have known about them since time immemorial ?
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 4414
Location: United Kingdom | Love this news article from MSN Newsweek:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/techandscience/the-universe-should-no...
But still so many refuse or refute the idea of the existence of a Supra Divine Intelligence .... when will they ever accept what is staring us in the face and constantly unveiled in so many ways?
Meanwhile, wonder what happened to Marsha Z?
Love
P
Edited by Paul Joseph 10/26/2017 4:29 AM
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 1882
Location: NE Ohio | She is around.... I see her on FB. She seems to be doing well.... Would love to see her here too. I being a deep thinker, as well as you all.... This isa truly a deep topic and true. I had weird dreams all night. Wondering why... | |
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Expert
Posts: 2118
Location: The Heart of Space | Hello to all:
The problem that I see in our current environment is that science is being demonized in favor of unenlightened fundamentalist dogma.
The true scientific view on, for example, climate change is that is does exist, that it is happening, that it will profoundly affect us as a survivable species, AND that it is IRREVERSIBLE!
The truly enlightened element of our societies recognize this and seek to find a means to cope......a small minority believe in leaving the planet.....in line with my recommendation.
Peace in the Heart of Space,
Marty | |
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PhD Alumni
Posts: 1882
Location: NE Ohio | The change in climate is due to our planet being pulled into a different solar system... but the chemtrails are a huge factor of illness. It's not supposed to be... Mother nature didn't need this crap into our air.... our best bet is to meditate and create better as we are our own creators. Much love to everyone!
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Scientific research affecting spirituality beliefs