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Time CHALLENGE!
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mruppert
Posted 9/23/2008 10:39 PM (#10387)
Subject: Time CHALLENGE!



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Hello all Metaphysicians:
     I am sorry that I could not find all of the comments that I read concerning time, and how we live in it. Even so, the overriding theme was that most want to live in the "now" and not worry or even recognize time past or future.  I think a theme that got pumped up was that there is no time except the "now".
     Since the comments were so spread out amongst different threads, I'd like to have a discussion about it in one continuous thread.
     I will start by saying that time does, indeed, exist, and it is not relative to anything....it is! It has dimensional presence. There is a past, present and future, and it is NOT ILLUSORY, it is perceptual....and it changes as does perception. It can do that because all of it; the sum total of all time, which is eternal, exists at the same time and all times. Spatially, time exists everywhere. Here, and in star system WOLF494! It is the same time, just not perceived quite the same way.
     It really upsets me when people say that they only think of the now as that is all that is important. Do these people let their kids roam free in the streets since there is no future for them. Do they let their parents and grandparents die since the past has no significance to them? Do they seek to find the "One" that exists momentarily for them, never understanding that the true "ONE" has existed, exists and will exist along with time and  distance conceivable or inconceivable.
     On this subject, you won't get  a rehash of any anti-Einsteinian crap from me again, but a metaphysical discussion of time. So, though I can't remember who you are, tell me again why the past and the future are mundane, pedestrian and insignificant. Tell me why the "Om" is brilliant at this moment and no other!

Peace and Nine-Lived Cats (which is eight more than me):
Marty and Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SissyGirl
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NothingEverything
Posted 9/24/2008 4:16 AM (#10392 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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mruppert - 9/25/2008 11:39 AM

Hello all Metaphysicians:
     I am sorry that I could not find all of the comments that I read concerning time, and how we live in it. Even so, the overriding theme was that most want to live in the "now" and not worry or even recognize time past or future.  I think a theme that got pumped up was that there is no time except the "now".
     Since the comments were so spread out amongst different threads, I'd like to have a discussion about it in one continuous thread.
     I will start by saying that time does, indeed, exist, and it is not relative to anything....it is! It has dimensional presence. There is a past, present and future, and it is NOT ILLUSORY, it is perceptual....and it changes as does perception. It can do that because all of it; the sum total of all time, which is eternal, exists at the same time and all times. Spatially, time exists everywhere. Here, and in star system WOLF494! It is the same time, just not perceived quite the same way.
     It really upsets me when people say that they only think of the now as that is all that is important. Do these people let their kids roam free in the streets since there is no future for them. Do they let their parents and grandparents die since the past has no significance to them? Do they seek to find the "One" that exists momentarily for them, never understanding that the true "ONE" has existed, exists and will exist along with time and  distance conceivable or inconceivable.
     On this subject, you won't get  a rehash of any anti-Einsteinian crap from me again, but a metaphysical discussion of time. So, though I can't remember who you are, tell me again why the past and the future are mundane, pedestrian and insignificant. Tell me why the "Om" is brilliant at this moment and no other!

Peace and Nine-Lived Cats (which is eight more than me):
Marty and Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SissyGirl


Hey Marty,
i miss talking with you.
here we go.
when i refer to the only now.
i am recognizing that time is an infinite and all encompassing essence.
being infinite and all encompassing why would i consider it with measure or perception?
no one can ever measure the infinite and i can never preceive the ubiquitous.
the only aspect of time that i can preceive is now, and only the bit that is in my small globe of awareness.
recognizing only now does not mean that one is free to be completely reckless, like letting our children run in the streets,
things like that have a more emotional and moral control than any concept of time can dictate anyways and has more to do with maintaining now, the "future" is completely uncertain and only controlled by maintaining the now.
what i am trying to show others is that time is an invention of the mind, greedy to understand and catagorize, only a label of something that exist eternaly before and after human influence has touched this sphere. something eternal and ubiquitous is niether anything, everything, or nothing and lies far beyond humans small scope of understanding. even the bending of time and space still only occurs at the present time of its occurance, that past, present, and future all occur now, and is not linear.
aging is a current event. planning and execution are both current events. learning and remembering are current events.
even a phenomenon of a past event occuring in the present still only exist in the now.
there is no escaping now, even if you time traveled you would still be in your own sphere of present time, unmeasurable and omnipresent. if time is outside of everything, nothing, and anything by nature of infinity and omnipresence, then what is there?
a linear past and future can never be proven to exist, what would be proven is a very dynamic and constantly evolving now.
in closing, perception is what i would consider and illusion, a hallucination even, something only the witness can see. truth lies beyond perception, before mind, and in that truth, labels melt and everything disappears to the source.


Edited by NothingEverything 9/24/2008 4:44 AM
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NothingEverything
Posted 9/24/2008 4:57 AM (#10393 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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We are experiencing the eternal every ticking second.
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Tracy Martin
Posted 9/24/2008 5:20 PM (#10398 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Hi James! It is wonderful to hear from you again!  Good to hear from you Marty!

My thoughts and intuition sparked at the thought, we live in a "very dynamic and constantly evolving now." When I have allowed myself to contemplate time, eternity, the forever past and future, there is a certain mind blowing explosion in which no logical thought can follow and I see it as all being held in the Present Moment, stretched out into its infinite variations.

I have no certainty about "illusion vrs. reality," but I do hold a significant belief in the illusory nature of the reality we perceive in our minds. And I consider the idea that All This may be a dream in the mind of God!

I do not think that considering time and materiality an illusion releases me from conscience or the love and light I believe underlies this 'reality.'

We are living in a world in which we see the cyclical nature of the Seasons, and of our bodies. So we live in consideration of the movement of time as we perceive it. Consciousness holds it all, and consciousness is omnipresent, always Now. The Divine within the experience of the mortal, the Unchanging within the experience of change - we live within both.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/24/2008 5:34 PM (#10399 - in reply to #10398)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Sorry Marty; much of what I responded to about time was, I felt, at the time I was writing it, channelled; or at least from my heart, not from my head, and not referenced in any way. I just cannot return to it in this way. As you say, across so many threads too.

My immediate response on reading your first few lines and thread title was,

I thought we had agreed that time did not exist.

But that was maybe Once upon a time.

I can say no more on it, just Now, anyways


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Tracy Martin
Posted 9/25/2008 11:58 AM (#10417 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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"There exists only the present instant... a Now which always and without end is itself new. There is no yesterday nor any tomorrow, but only Now, as it was a thousand years ago and as it will be a thousand years hence."

   Meister Eckhart (c.1260 - 1328).

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/25/2008 12:11 PM (#10418 - in reply to #10417)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Ah well Tracy, if you are going to go back to quoting one my of All Time Favourites, you may as well just attach all his Works here and we can close shop and disappear into Eternity holding hands !! xx

Eckhart (Meister) did indeed say much of what we need to know ... he even managed to evade the Inquisition who were after him, by choosing his time to die ...

Time does not exist because, for example, Eckhart's spirit, expressed in the 13th century, crosses linear time to speak to us now: yet his time-bound words, evoke the inward journey that takes us into our selves and then, internally beyond, into the True Self, inside, the only One that Is. But there are many other examples too; each of us are evoked by different resonances, I guess, those that most resonate with our particular wavelength in this chosen lifetime.

Perhaps then, part of the gift of the spirit is to us this one chosen lifetime to transcend into the lifetime of the Many ... live all lives Now, honorably and in the service of love ...

NothingEverything - I resonate so much with your reflections

.... oh yes, and found these quotes on the recent 'quotes for success' thread ... may shed light here too ....

"Living in the colony of time, we are ultimately responsible to the empire of eternity" : Martin Luther King

"His disciples said to him, 'When will the kingdom come ?'

'It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, Look, here! or Look, there! Rather the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it' " :
The Gospel of Thomas



Edited by Paul Joseph 9/25/2008 12:34 PM
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mruppert
Posted 9/25/2008 10:00 PM (#10425 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Hi all:
     I have read responses with great interest....and I think we say very much the same things but in very different ways.
     I'll try this from a healing perspective, as this is most important to my thesis.
     If all is now, and you are sitting in a wheelchair and reading this, than you are indeed timeless and without time. You will live in the now! As you will always be sitting in a wheelchair and reading this and more of this and more of this ad infinitum.
      But you did not come from your mother's womb complete with wheelchair.  You ARE (not were) you ARE a healthy person who walks or runs or does both or whatever....as that is time...the time when you are that....that is past, inside and outside the mother's womb and that is a now that you do not perceive and a future that you can potentialize. But, it is still there in time! It is not a false hope or dream......it is very real in time, only it is along a different path....a path that those who perceive now to be all that there can ever be do not really see.
      Let me make one other point, the Egyptians maintained a relatively stable society for beyond 5,000 years. Even the Brits, based on stability can only claim one or two thousand if that much. And, the early Brit years did NOT have the acheivements of the Egyptians. Well, yeah, you guys made up for it with the Industrial Revolution. But, my point is that the Egyptian civilization maintained itself as long as it did because they properly understood time.
      The common mistake and erroneous belief is that they believed in reincarnation. Not true! They believed in RESURRECTION! The dead would die and then live again. The Pharoahs are buried with all that they need for the next life....all the practical things, not mystical....because they would get up and start doing things. Oh, and plenty of  servant images, since they realized that they would no longer be Pharoah...ie....God!  Heck, they might be a slave...that is the  ancient Egyptian belief.
     Time exists past, present, and future. And all three concepts of time exist in the past and in the present and in the future. Because time exists at all times throughout all of time. It is not that there isn't any time, it is that there is ALL TIME!
      Why people chose to deny that is the purpose of my study!

Peace Profound, and Zee Looove,
Marty and Cats of Many Lives, Luck, Poopyhead, and the Siss
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Supernatural3
Posted 9/26/2008 12:12 AM (#10429 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Here is how I can explain time: (inside jills brain)

Time is experienced only in the present. We do not experience the future, or the past. However, I do feel we can experience the future and past, as we do now in a form of premonition or psychic feelings. But we still FEEL them in the current moment.

I don't believe the Egyptians were right though.... i don't see them re-using their bodies. The belief was wrong. However, reincarnation was accurate. I know my past lives as well as some others that with out a doubt feel and ring true to me. I WAS Egyptian in a past life. My body didn't make it. I also died pretty young back then, but life was very well off. No worries of being poor, or foodless. Very wealthy community. They also LOVED metaphysics, because they had readers, psychic advisers, tarot, runes, etc. Tattooing was a form of royalty as well as body jewelry.

Back to time: The only reason we have time in a physical body is because of gravity and cycles of the physical planets, as was described well above. But, what about our physical body dying, from the moment we are born, we start to die. Some sooner than others, but it's inevitable. This death is only the shell while we choose to use a physical method for a while. Just like buying a car, it wears out and depreciates the moment it's driven off the lot. I hope we don't depreciate, but gee, after reaching a certain age, our insurance sure goes up.

Our spirit life is timeless, but our physical life is based on time. I for one want to remember my past, for it created who I am today. Perhaps forgive the hurtful or hurting. I also want to look forward to my future and plan for it, because if I ONLY live for today, I may be on the streets with nothing tomorrow and I don't want to be a burden on others.

So as far as NOW..... live for the moment, LOVE the moment.... but plan wisely and keep the love from yesterday.... i hear you take that with you when we have lift off.

Blessings~
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/26/2008 7:08 AM (#10431 - in reply to #10429)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Really interesting how the same thing can be said or expressed in such a variety and diversity of ways; like light being fractured by the prism into the rainbow, though even that is a fraction of what we can visually perceive
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NothingEverything
Posted 9/26/2008 7:25 AM (#10433 - in reply to #10431)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Paul Joseph - 9/27/2008 8:08 PM

Really interesting how the same thing can be said or expressed in such a variety and diversity of ways; like light being fractured by the prism into the rainbow, though even that is a fraction of what we can visually perceive


Haha, ? ??? ???????? t?? ???? ??????how beautiful and unique every flower in the garden is.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/26/2008 8:37 AM (#10434 - in reply to #10433)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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The spontaneous transmission - or sharing ? - or evocation ? of thought ... & Freud spoke of unconscious communication ... ha ! An example of the illusion of both time and s p a c e

Edited by Paul Joseph 9/26/2008 8:38 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 11/13/2008 7:32 AM (#12386 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Aaah - here is another one of those Time threads I was mentioning yesterday .... to Jody ...

& rock on Meister E ....

.... I found this when I was looking for a really old thread discussion on 2012, but it seems older threads may disappear somewhere - they don;t come up when I do even 'search all posts' .... I was looking for the 2012 discussions because I am dismayed that there appears to be a new film about to be released called, 2012, which from the trailer looks scaremongeringly exploitative ... and it does bother me when spiritual traditions/teachings/pricniples are used to make a 'fast buck'.

As we said when this was raised before and as i am sure most will know, but will restate it here if only to be a bastion of truth against celluloid cellulose, the matter of 2012 is derived frm the perception that the Maya calender stops on 21/12/12 - when coincidentally, the sun and earth are aligned with a dark rift/black hole at the centre of the milk way (a rift observed by the Maya but only discoveered by astronomers in around, I think, 2001). No-one knows if any of this has meaning and if so, what meaning it has, there is much conjecture. It could be the dawning of the new age, a consciousness shift, or a physical event of some kind.

Some of us are looking forward to it with optimism !

The UMS programme has a course on this, there is an excellent book by Daniel Pinchbeck, called, 2012, and I am sure our resident numerologist Louise, knows much more than me about this .... i am just concerned to put a marker down before spiritual discernment gets drowned in Hollywood-hype !

(ps, besides time zones, another thing that plays havoc with memory is that the USA has the opposite way of recording dates to what we have in the UK: hence, 24 September 2008 is, in the UK, recorded as 24/9/08; in the US it would seem to be, 9/24/08 !)

Edited by Paul Joseph 11/13/2008 7:35 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/30/2009 10:47 AM (#14286 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Aha ! Here is at least one other pre-thread that mentions 2012, and a lot more besides .... thought it might be of interest to newer Board friends ... bye for now
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starsey
Posted 3/31/2009 5:24 AM (#14288 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!


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It depends on which time you are referring to: Physical time or subconcious time.

Physical time is measured horizontally, by experiances gained during the rising and setting of the sun.

Within the subconcious, time is measured vertically by acquiring and building understandings.

To make the most of your time in the physical it would make sense to increase your understanding with each experiance. Which way do you use your time?


Starsey xx


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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 3/31/2009 12:35 PM (#14290 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Hi mrupport,

Though we live in the present moment, we are "hard wired" (I understand that some people don't have a sense of past or future, as the Maasai in Africa, and certain Indian tribes in America) to have a certain "abstractual" sense or concept of the "past," present, and the "future," a mental "construct" as it were to tell the differece between events that occur in one's life "before" a certain given moment and "after" a certain given moment. This is "useful," for most of us. The sense of time, the "flow" of time isn't that highlly "evolved" or as definite in the mind of different cultures, as is the traditional "clock time" in the minds of industrial western civilizations. Many of us choose to be more "comfortable" or "identified" with living in the "past" or the "future," and "ignore" or "forget" that our actual experience is in the present moment. This can make our experience of the final breath somewhat awkward and distressful if we have spent the majority of our lives living and identified with the "past" or the 'future," at the exclusion of being comfortable and at peace with ourselves in the present moment. Fulfilment, peace, contentment, gratitude, appreciation, acceptance, our breath, etc., are experienced in the now of the present moment. It is "felt" and is a "given" in a "non-conceptual" way.

This is how it is for me in general, as I more intensely identify with being more comfortable and at peace with myself in the present moment. Like an "eternal" internal "anchor."

Thank you, and peace,


Absolute Sovereigncy

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 3/31/2009 12:44 PM
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 3/31/2009 1:58 PM (#14291 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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P.S

Mostly it is the present moment that people are ignoring and are in denial of more often than not, to my observation. Thats why the experience of peace is so elusive, especially if they seek a"social" or "governmental" peace from without, which to my mind is very much an illusion.

Peace is within and present now,

Absolute Sovereigncy
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 3/31/2009 1:59 PM (#14292 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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P.S

Mostly it is the present moment that people are ignoring and are in denial of more often than not, to my observation. Thats why the experience of peace is so elusive, especially if they seek a"social" or "governmental" peace from without, which to my mind is very much an illusion.

Peace is within and present now,

Absolute Sovereigncy
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/1/2009 7:48 AM (#14297 - in reply to #14288)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Every time ?

All time ?

Time after Time?

Timelessness ?

Time to Time ?
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Katrina
Posted 4/7/2009 11:26 AM (#14397 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Greetings all!

I was wondering what your take is on the perception of time in group conscious.

How sometimes the day seems to go sooooo slow, not just for one person but for everyone you know.
How sometimes the day seems to go by in a flash.
AND
How time seems to be going by quicker (summer not lasting as long, Christmas comes and goes so quick your head spins), not just for us older ones but for the children as well.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/11/2009 6:53 PM (#14446 - in reply to #14397)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Hello Katrin ... this is one of those meaningful threads/comments to which I referred earlier in another 'equation' today!

Nice to relate, vibrationaly

ps, time going quicker is not necessarily a subjective impression; if you have not, I might suggest you look at 'The Reign of Quantity', by Rene Guenon (or could be, Rene Daumal: one wrote that book, the other wrote, Mount Analogue: both very spiritual texts, dating from the 1940's from slightly different perspectives, just slightly Rene confused as I type!)

The fact that Guenon (I think it was he) discerned the speeding up of time, before even the velocity of our current age, is, I feel, prophetic.

x

Edited by Paul Joseph 4/11/2009 6:59 PM
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 4/14/2009 1:47 AM (#14473 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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"How long is waiting? ... and how short is life?" A quote from the Japanese "recording" There's No Corners In My Room, by Harumi, around the late 60's I think.

Contentment is within,

Absolute Sovereigncy
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/14/2009 4:14 AM (#14476 - in reply to #14473)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Someone once told me that is why the Native American peoples sensed that the white man was doomed - because we built square houses, where the Native Peoples lived in round ones ...
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Katrina
Posted 4/14/2009 6:22 AM (#14479 - in reply to #10387)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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Interesting, thank you Paul. I'm going to the library this afternoon I'll have to check that out!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/14/2009 6:31 AM (#14480 - in reply to #14479)
Subject: RE: Time CHALLENGE!



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No problem Katrina (sorry I omitted your 'a' the other day) - thanks too .... just a bit more background on the two Rene's, if you like ...

Rene Guenon worked on a smilar thread to Frithjof Schon and Ananda Coomeraswamy, both proponents of what they termed, and has been followed by Ken Wilber as terming, 'The Perennial Philosophy'; ie, the transcendent unity of religions basiclaly. It was their approaches that really hooked me into metaphysical thinking in the mid-1970s, at which point i had been having a brief flirtation with fundamental Evangelical Baptistry ! I have never looked back .... a very good book if you can get it is, 'The Treasury of Traditional Wisdom', edited by Whittal N. Perry; I remember Tracy saying she had this book too; though it is slightly an old book now (1970).

Rene Daumal meanwhile had links with G. I. Gurdjieff. Daumal's 'Mount Analogue' is a metaphorical and metaphysical fictional account of a group of explorers who seek to find and ascend a sacred mountain. A little bit like Hesse's 'Journey to the East'.

Happy librarying - love and Light

Paul x

ps, did some searches on the net after posting this and there are quite a few references to both the above in Wikepedia. I spelt Schon wrong - should be Schuon !!

pps, seeing you are still on line, and wondering if you are .... just to amplify the connection I preceived in your question earlier and Guenon's work: he was working on the basis of the Kali Yuga coming towards the completion of its 26,000 (or is it 27, 500 - I can never quite remember - seems so long every time one has to live through it !)...year cycle (writing long before any of the current 2012 dialectics) ... and therefore proposing that time actually is perceived as speeding up, as the sand in an hourglass creates that perception towards the emptying out: hence too, why, in the case for example of UMS, I would add, ancient mystery schools were hidden & secretive, where now, knowledge is democratised: the Higher/Inner Spirit(s) wish to disclose every thing that is possible to assist us in our transformation, everything is being put out there/here, to enable us to utilise what we can, in hoping for the best transition:

for Guenon, this is the movement from the age of Quality, to the reign of Quantity: from spirit to materialism, as the Ages transit, to bring us back again to our true Centre

Edited by Paul Joseph 4/14/2009 6:50 AM
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