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Understanding Love?
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mruppert
Posted 9/15/2008 9:14 PM (#10231)
Subject: Understanding Love?



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Hi all....

     I am still a bit teary eyed....I heard a lecture on the Greek concept of "polis" and the lecturer said (in discussing the idea of the nurturing, caring citizen) :

     "It is like Odysseus saying to Calypso, 'no, it is not immortality that I want, it is Penelope that I want because to be Odysseus is to be the husband of Penelope' ".

      That, folks, is real love! To give up immortality for the love of Penelope!!!

      WOW!

Peace Profound,

Marty and Kittykatsies, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SillySissy



Edited by mruppert 9/15/2008 9:27 PM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/16/2008 4:38 AM (#10232 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Quite so Marty .... your thread remembered to me this poem, which you may or may not know
(though reading it again now, it captures the rapture of love, but not sure if it captures the concomitant despair of love's loss ...):

Amo Ergo Sum

Because I love
The sun pours out its rays of living gold
Pours out its gold and silver on the sea.

Because I love
The earth upon her astral spindle winds
Her ecstasy-producing dance.

Because I love
Clouds travel on the winds through wide skies,
Skies wide and beautiful, blue and deep.

Because I love
Wind blows white sails,
The wind blows over flowers, the sweet wind blows.

Because I love
The ferns grow green, and green the grass, and green
The transparent sunlit trees.

Because I love
Larks rise up from the grass
And all the leaves are full of singing birds.

Because I love
The summer air quivers with a thousand wings,
Myriads of jewelled eyes burn in the light.

Because I love
The iridescent shells upon the sand
Takes forms as fine and intricate as thought.

Because I love
There is an invisible way across the sky,
Birds travel by that way, the sun and moon
And all the stars travel that path by night.

Because I love
There is a river flowing all night long.

Because I love
All night the river flows into my sleep,
Ten thousand living things are sleeping in my arms,
And sleeping wake, and flowing are at rest.



— Kathleen Raine (1908-2003)
“Amo Ergo Sum” in The Year One,
Hamish Hamilton, London, 1952, pp. 24-25
Also: The Collected Poems of Kathleen Raine
Golgonooza Press, Ipswich, UK, 2000, pp. 76-77

http://www.wisdomportal.com/Technology/Raine-AmoErgoSum.html
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Rose
Posted 9/16/2008 6:45 AM (#10234 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Robert Browning

A Man's Requirements

LOVE me, sweet, with all thou art,
Feeling, thinking, seeing--
Love me in the lightest part,
Love me in full being.

Love me with thine open youth
In its frank surrender;
With the vowing of thy mouth,
With its silence tender.

Love me with thine azure eyes,
Made for earnest granting!
Taking color from the skies,
Can Heaven's truth be wanting?

Love me with their lids, that fall
Snow-like at first meeting:
Love me with thine heart, that all
The neighbors then see beating.

Love me with thine hand stretched out
Freely- open-minded:
Love me with thy loitering foot,--
Hearing one behind it.

Love me with thy voice, that turns
Sudden faint above me;
Love me with thy blush that burns
When I murmur "Love me!"

Love me with thy thinking soul--
Break it to love-sighing;
Love me with thy thoughts that roll
On through living--dying.

Love me in they gorgeous airs,
When the world has crowned thee!
With the angels round thee.

Love me pure, as musers do,
Up the woodlands shady:
Love me gaily, fast and true,
As a winsome lady.

Through all hopes that keep us brave,
Further off or nigher,
Love me for the house and grave,--
And for something higher.

Thus, if thou wilt prove me, dear,
Woman's love no fable,
I will love thee--half-a-year--
As a man is able.



( I thought you chaps might enjoy this one.)

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/16/2008 7:24 AM (#10239 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
Hmmm Rose ... thanks: but the last verse is a tad cynical is it not ?
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Rose
Posted 9/16/2008 9:01 PM (#10267 - in reply to #10239)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Yes it is Paul! But I found it entertaining...rather funny...just a play on words and rhymes. It was written by a man.

Of course, I know that was written many years ago when our Freudian and Jungian perspectives weren't that illuminated. And our enlightenment wasn't quite as wide spread as it is now.

The poem actually tickled me, playing on a rather "not true" but a well known "generalism".

Love, Peace and Light to you....
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mruppert
Posted 9/23/2008 11:07 PM (#10388 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Thought you two might be interested in it....and I can't copy it..there is a DRM lock....there is this absolutely great DVD of Beowulf....nah....not the dumb movie, the original....done by a Prof named Bagby, who does it in the olde English. Since the saga is sung, we know that for sure, he sings it with the most likely instrument and, even though you can only recognize very few words as how we say them today, you get the "sound and sense" of the epic. English as spoken in maybe as early as 700-800 AD? To me, this is FANTASTIC...keep all the dumb spiritual meditations.......to hear an epic saga as people heard it when it was actually being performed in the early times.....man o' man, I am in heaven. This is the EPITOME of spirituality.

Peace and Love,
Marty and GrendelCats, daswermin, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SissyGirl
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Tracy Martin
Posted 9/24/2008 5:49 PM (#10405 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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On a personal note...there is someone who has captured my love..and I his... and we are ecstatic! 
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/24/2008 5:56 PM (#10409 - in reply to #10405)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Then Be Thee Together

Thee Thine

Thine thee

Ever Together May Thou'st Be xx

( a seashore gypsy faery blessing)

Edited by Paul Joseph 9/24/2008 5:57 PM
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Tracy Martin
Posted 9/24/2008 6:00 PM (#10410 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Sigh...thank you!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/24/2008 6:04 PM (#10412 - in reply to #10410)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
ps

Love is not for understanding -

It's for Being

!!

(but who am I to say?x)
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NothingEverything
Posted 9/24/2008 9:28 PM (#10414 - in reply to #10412)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Paul Joseph - 9/25/2008 7:04 AM

ps

Love is not for understanding -

It's for Being

!!

(but who am I to say?x)


Katsu!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/25/2008 3:38 AM (#10415 - in reply to #10414)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
I am smiling, in silence, bowing and holding a Flower
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Danjummai
Posted 9/25/2008 7:31 AM (#10416 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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ps

Love is not for understanding -

It's for Being

!!

(but who am I to say?x)

By Paul Joseph

My mind says: There is only One Love, the rest is fondness or infatuation.

I don't know my mind.

Lol. 

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/25/2008 12:17 PM (#10419 - in reply to #10416)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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..... Love takes us out of our mind ... or does it take our mind from us .... ?

Mindlessly

.... and then, as you say,

fondness, infatuation,

Reflections of the One Love

in whom we live and move and have our Being

Then, how to discern the true from the false ?

Search Me !
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Tracy Martin
Posted 9/25/2008 12:42 PM (#10420 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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No separation. I've got it all! One Love, fondness, infatuation, lust!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/25/2008 1:06 PM (#10421 - in reply to #10420)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Ha ! I had sought for the other one besides those two and had blanked out lust !!

still searching Me

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mruppert
Posted 9/25/2008 8:43 PM (#10423 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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     Again, teary eyed over a lecture........how Helen (the Trojan one) who only thought of herself and her great beauty; and constantly thought only "I" and never we; upon the return of Telemacus (I'll do phonetic spellings because I am typing quickly) said "Ah, "I" could tell it was you by the sound of your voice.....oh, don't mind Menolaus...the Gods made me act crazy, anyway he loves "ME".
     Contrast this to Penelope whom (when Odysseus revealed himself after returning from the epic journey) put her arms around him and said "I shall never let "YOU" go again."  Compare the two households, compare the two women. One knows a love that the other cannot, the love of one for another, and not just love of oneself.
     But also look at the character of the two women.....Helen, who may have launched a thousand ships with good looks, also desired to possess and did, indeed, possess all men around her. And, none pleased her; nothing pleased her except self love.
     Penelope, on the other hand, reviled her suitors, and pined for Odysseus. Also, remember that the goddess Calypso offered not only herself but immortality to Odysseus and Odysseus refused both. And, she knew that he would.
      So, the difference between the two women is not so much the concept of love, but the concept of moral character. Helen had none, Penelope had much!
      Another way of looking at this is through the words of the All Mighty and Powerful Oz, when he gave a heart, of sorts,  to the tin man, and said (I quote from memory...and don't vouch for exactness) "And remember my sentimental tin fellow, a heart is not measured by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." Which causes me to remember a line from a song by a gawdawful group, I think it was AmericaEaglesTotoREOSpeedDragon..or some other group like that.....but I like the line...."Oz never gave nuthin' to the tin man, that he didn't all ready have."
     And, I also remember a classic line in a song whose title I have long forgotten, by a group called "It's A Beautiful Day"...lead singers April and somebody LaStrange...gotta love that name.....in  a ballad about love he sings "I would rather feel the pain, than not at all".

Peace Profound, and l-o-v-e,
Marty and Kittsy Katsies, Luck, Popp and Sissily
    
    
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/26/2008 9:14 AM (#10435 - in reply to #10423)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
Love that scene in the Odysey when Odysseus finally is home after his wanderings, and still disguised, slays swiftly and deals deftly with bow and arrow all the suitors in his house who otherwise would have slain him and taken Penelope for their own

... gets me every time ...

timeless saga
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Danjummai
Posted 9/26/2008 4:50 PM (#10453 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Me too Paul, though would have acted differently on the other contenders if I were Odysseus. No need for the brutal killings, more especially so that the love of Penelope would be let to prove itself. She had carried herself so perfectly well in the period of his absence that she would have waited for him for eternity.

To Marty, I say, heard about the rule in an old song can’t remember name…either Quincy or Grace... It goes thus: “Love is a dangerous game to play, especially when not played by the rule.”

Love you all,

with or without the rule!

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/26/2008 6:52 PM (#10455 - in reply to #10453)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
Hello Danjumai - sure, I was reflecting on different choices for O after I posted, but they were different times I guess; though the suitors sounded pretty rough and not to be displaced without a fight ... !

Who knows what we do unless we are there, maybe

For the warrior, death and life are equal illusions

Blessings
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sunflower
Posted 9/27/2008 3:52 AM (#10462 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?


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thers no understanding love,its not up for intepertation,it just IS,more than love is unconditional love,the love for oneself,which is nessasary if one is to love others,gosh listen to me,one,haha!gone all poshish,nah not really,same old me,love irisx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/27/2008 1:02 PM (#10473 - in reply to #10462)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Love is that which exists not for itself: but which purely, Is

Edited by Paul Joseph 9/27/2008 1:03 PM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/27/2008 3:05 PM (#10474 - in reply to #10473)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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Location: United Kingdom
"Only love can break your heart

try to be sure,

right from

the start:

yes, only love can break your heart"
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sunflower
Posted 9/28/2008 4:01 AM (#10480 - in reply to #10474)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?


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is that a song yoseph,yes a heart can be broken,it can also be mended,sometimes withpieces missing!once the spirit is broken,it is harder to restore,if at all,faith in all things divine,irisx
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Danjummai
Posted 9/28/2008 1:33 PM (#10486 - in reply to #10231)
Subject: RE: Understanding Love?



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"Love is Wicked"...

I think it's a song by a seemingly experienced lady.

Bless Her!

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