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Why Pray?
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 9:52 AM (#8719 - in reply to #8711)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Hi Pablo, et al:
     I am a slave to William James, to the respect that I think of "The Varieties of Religious Experience" as sort of a bible. I am a student of  religious experience, in all of its manifestations. I have learned from Dr. James (and secondarily from Dr. Carl Jung) that "religion" and religious experience are two very separate and distinct things......they oftentimes coincide, but just as often do not.
     I am Roman Catholic by trade, but very rarely pray in a RC church, as it is meaningless to me.....though I thought more of it when we did stuff in Latin. I cannot explain why I maintain a firm and positive belief in RCism, other than to say that I studied the early "church" and am aware of our beliefs in many Gods and mystical forms of worship and communion. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT believe in the hierachical RC church of today....but I still love the pretty buildings, the iconography, and many of the ceeremonial trappings.
     When I pray, it is not a conscious act, nor directed at one god. It is moreso a fervant desire that the cosmic energy that the world is, alter itself somehow to grant my plea on behalf of one, or another, or many; or everyone.
     I ask for world peace and harmony....and I am told by multitudes that I am naive and foolish. But, who is really the fool? Who is naive? I know that people thrive on war and disharmony.....and that is why I pray for them......they just can't see it.....they just don't know it......they just don't get it!
But WHEN my prayers are granted, think of what it will mean for them! They will have seen what I see!!!!!!

Peace n' Luv,
Marty and Luckylee(Zoroastrian); Poppyhead(Episcopalian) and SissyGirl(CosmicCat)
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 10:04 AM (#8720 - in reply to #8719)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Absolutely d'acquerdo (? trying to say I agree in Espagnol!! ) Marty ... nice to be 'in real time' with you here ...

did you see the other day I mentioned the - was it St Paul quote? - 'The foolishness of God exceeds the wisdom of men' ? ... as St Francis said, or paraphrased, let us all be fools of God !

Have you read

The White Goddess, by Robert Graves ? It is a - possibly the - study of what he terms 'poetic myth' but it extends far beyond that, and is a depth study of myth, legend and fable from around the world, that basically concludes that most of our contemporary religions are patriarchal and are an attempt, conscious or unconscious, to stamp out the underlying and preceding worship of the Moon Goddess, Divine Mother, the Divine Feminine.

Blessed Be She

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/7/2008 10:05 AM
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 10:27 AM (#8725 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Hey PJay:
How the heck are ya?
I appreciate the reference, and I will certainly get the book....when I will read it is another question...too many and not enough time!
I enjoyed a flic many years ago, called "The Hospital" for many reasons. Particularly the harried administrator, who told the demonstrators,  "you take it....if you think you can run it....take it!" This would be a must see for all of our little MBA's running around now.
But the one catch line that always lives in my memory is:
Edmund Drummond:I am the fool for Christ, the Paraclete of Caborca.

Peace n' Love,
Marty and sleepyhead kittykats
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 10:34 AM (#8727 - in reply to #8725)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Thanks & buena vista baby (?! ) .... did you know i have an MBA in educational management (grade A no less) Ha - not showing off, well I am i guess, but also just wanted

a) to show we are in a similar game &

b) rebut those issues certain parties have raised about the status of UMS courses, etc ...

and as for relevant film quotes, that is a good one ... slightly different, but good on the prayer theme is from Cool Hand Luke, where Luke (played by Paul Newman) is asked by a prison guard, if he knows what the meaning of respect is, Luke's reply is:

"yeah, its what ya gotta give, so that you can get it"

be well my friend
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 12:15 PM (#8752 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Splendid, beautiful line!

So, in return, I offer you this...by a gentleman who also wrote the ballad of my beloved ( but gone ) Isis:

"Gotta Serve Somebody"

You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might be a rock'n' roll addict prancing on the stage
Might have money and drugs at your commands, women in a cage
You may be a business man or some high degree thief
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a state trooper, you might be an young turk
You may be the head of some big TV network
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame
You may be living in another country under another name.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a construction worker working on a home
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome
You might own guns and you might even own tanks
You might be somebody's landlord you might even own banks.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side
You may be working in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair
You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may call me Terry, you may call me Jimmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything but no matter what you say.

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

--------so no one gets upset in vis copyright, this is by Bobby Dylan. I reserve the right to use my erstwhile brides name and similarities between the fictional Isis and the real Isis were (probably) intentional, but I have long since waived any claim to such.


Peace n' Love to all,
Marty and KitKat Kandybars, Luck, Popp and Sizzz

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/11/2008 6:49 AM (#10131 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
}Nearly started a new thread 'On Silence', then remembered this [first posted this over on 'a rumination of silence' thread ] one ... although this could also go onto the 'Why Pray' thread .. thoughts of silence evoked a memory of how once I was with a retreat group and we were about to enter a tiny church; but as we all reached the porch, we kind of looked at each other, in silence, and communicated that there was sudden shift of energy, as if the air had become palbable and difficult to move through. We entered into the church, where the air pressure felt even stronger, and we saw that other members of our group who had arrived there earlier were sitting in silent meditation{

Just for fun i thought I would double post over here onto this great thread too ...

"Prayer wears thin the veil between time and eternity "

(cannot remember who said that, but i feel its a great quote - we felt eternity in that church at that moment ... silent, contemplative prayer seemed to have opened the door for eternity to manifest, make itself known)

Edited by Paul Joseph 9/11/2008 6:50 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/19/2009 5:11 PM (#13257 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Aquarius' recent post on prayer reminded me of this thread (which I had checked out earlier today in case I had posted that other prayer on it, but hadn't ... !) ... just flagging it up in case others had not come across it before
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Aquarius
Posted 1/22/2009 2:18 PM (#13326 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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MORE REFLECTIONS ON PRAYER
During prayer, our interior life springs into action and our
Whole being gives its undivided attention to God.
Not to pray is a sign that we are still unaware that God is alive in us,
In all those who are accompanying us on our pathway through life,
As well as in all lifeforms that share our world with us.
When that is the case, we are still
Out of touch with the most profound levels of our being.
Far from representing an element that alienates us from real life,
Prayer reconnects us with it.
In this way, with the help of God, we once again make contact
With the Divine part of ourselves and that of all life.

J.M. Cagodevilla
Edited by Aquarius

From ‘Words & Prayers for Comfort & Healing’

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/22/2009 3:00 PM (#13327 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
So, YES

we pray, because, what else is there to do, here ?

we pray because God needs us to, in order to be wholly God, in us

we pray, for joy

we pray, to live

we pray, to be conscious, because we live, eat, sleep, dream, unconsciously

we pray because life is joyously abundant, but we forget

we pray, because we can choose to love, or hate, live, or die,

we pray to remember, lest we forget

.... I think, feel so, anyway x

We pray to be blessed, and to bless others

we pray to be, and to be, with and for others, and ourselves

we pray for God

we pray for each other

I in Thou

Thee in Me

We in the Divine
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Supernatural3
Posted 1/22/2009 9:45 PM (#13348 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray, just "incase" I am wrong. LOL
I pray, to give energy towards something good or better.
I pray, in thanks, just incase I forgot to show my gratitude.
I pray, because I still feel so HUMAN!

I pray, because others are not as lucky as I am.
I pray, because I don't want to end up just like the others.

I pray, because I can!

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Danjummai
Posted 1/23/2009 10:27 AM (#13353 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A mixture of things is said here!

My take; Two forms of Prayer:

 'Lip Service'; 'Moving (Matrix) Stones.'

Bless You All!

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Danjummai
Posted 1/23/2009 10:28 AM (#13354 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A mixture of things is said here!

My take; Two forms of Prayer:

'Lip Service'; 'Moving (Matrix) Stones.'

Bless You All!

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Aquarius
Posted 1/25/2009 2:27 PM (#13388 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Dear Danjummai - true prayer must come from the heart or rather it must express the murmurings of our hearts. Peace be with you and all of us. 

With love - Aquarius

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 7:48 AM (#13427 - in reply to #13388)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Quite so Lyona - did you see the story i told earlier on about walking into a room where people were praying ?
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 8:00 AM (#13431 - in reply to #13427)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
The story appears earlier on this page, above ...

We perhaps also pray to know the mind of God ...

... and keep quiet to hear the Sacred Sound

........keeping still to feel the Holy Touch .........
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Danjummai
Posted 1/28/2009 8:42 AM (#13435 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I agree with you lyonna, and all that's said here.

Blessings!

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 1:14 PM (#13438 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Praying with you as well, Danjummai

.... and I am now reminded of that old 'popular' song -

"To know, know know you,

is to love, love, love you" !

How true too of the Divine
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sunflower
Posted 1/29/2009 4:25 AM (#13449 - in reply to #13353)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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any form of prayer is a link to the divine,if it sincere and from the heart,it will be heard,if it is unsinsere and for greed,it will still be heard,the divine will heal those in need,and show others the way,irisx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 4:43 AM (#13450 - in reply to #13449)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
There is a very interesting quotation from Claudius, in Hamlet, on exactly this point:

"My words fly up, my thoughts remain below
Words without thoughts never to heaven go".

Claudius is trying to pray for forgiveness for murdering his brother (Hamlet's father), but finds this difficult as he still is enjoying the benefits he has reaped as a consequence of his secret crime - his brother's throne, his brother's wife, etc (Hamlet Act 3, scene III)

http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?Work...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 4:50 AM (#13454 - in reply to #13449)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Interesting point there, Lyonna, and a good reminder of why we must maintain focus on the Good.

Hello to you by the way, and hope you are well today x
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 5:01 AM (#13459 - in reply to #13454)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Ha ha ! As you may see, so do I ... to my understanding, repetition in prayer is meant to occupy the conscious mind to permit the spiritual unconscious to emerge and unit with the Divine; long intercessionary prayer can be a way of linking with each other rather than the Divine; I also have experience of the latter being open to a form of spiritual exploitation or bullying.

I much prefer prayers that are short and sweet !

Nice to commune with you
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 5:14 AM (#13465 - in reply to #13459)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Perhaps it already has (Hell, broken loose), as a consequence of our inattentions
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sunflower
Posted 1/31/2009 9:18 AM (#13511 - in reply to #13450)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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without thought,there would never be words,a prayer to covet someones wife,or toaquire wealth,is a thought,not a prayer,God will know the difference,and act according to his will,as for the rock,intuition will never fail the faithful heartx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/31/2009 9:23 AM (#13513 - in reply to #13511)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Hello Sunflower - if you are referring back to the Claudius quote, just to clarify my point, Claudius was praying for forgiveness; he was, however, also conscious of his guilt, and living and accepting the fruits of his crime. That was the 'tragic paradox' that his prayer-realization was drawing attention to.
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sunflower
Posted 1/31/2009 9:37 AM (#13515 - in reply to #13513)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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no clarification needed,but thankyou paul for your teachings,irisx
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