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Why Pray?
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instinctual
Posted 7/31/2008 2:09 PM (#8116)
Subject: Why Pray?



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If we believe that it is God's will that propels us through life, or if we believe that we Are God/The Divine and are given free will to make our own choices, what are we praying for? Is "prayer" merely an attempt to create magic or manifest what we wish for through manipulation? OF course there are people who range from Sylvia Browne to Edgar Cayce who believe that even though we accept the lifetimes we are born into, there is a way to either "petition the counsel" or, through the accessing of our Akashic records, to actually have the course of our lives be altered. I would love to hear thoughts and read responses on this. Thanks to all for reading this and adding to it!

Lori
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/31/2008 4:31 PM (#8117 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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We pray to remember ourselves in the Divine.

Namaste
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Tracy Martin
Posted 7/31/2008 4:46 PM (#8119 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray because sometimes I get trapped in the treadmill of my thoughts and emotions and can't get off.
I pray because sometimes a wisdom and a power is needed to work far beyond my sphere of influence.
I pray because I love to connect with the divine and feel that love and acceptance and wisdom.  
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/1/2008 4:31 AM (#8150 - in reply to #8117)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I read this quickly last night in a brief moment and thought it said why do we pray; so i replied as ,we . but as Tracy indicates, we can only speak for ourselves ! ... Sorry 'buot that ...

I still think I pray for the reasons stated there, except to amplify, I am reticent about intercessionary prayer because it can seem as if we are seeking to manipulate the Divine ...thuogh if we believe in vibrational energy as a form of healing, we can simply seek to see ourselves as vehicles for whatever the Divine wills ...

I think many of the greatest mystics and sages, renounced prayer, as being a humanised technique for limiting God, and sought to incarnate prayer as a total way of total life ... but that requires intense and perpetual discipline, else otherwise we, I, find myself forgetting ...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/1/2008 4:50 AM (#8153 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Right on, Cara. Thanx for getting me to clarify !
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sunflower
Posted 8/1/2008 10:11 AM (#8199 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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do you know,i was thinking of this very same thing last night.Some peope say you shoud never use gods name in vain,accepted,yet daily,we in our minds say things like,oh god,why did that have to happen,if we are say frustrated,if things get too much,we may say,oh god help me,its as if we are talking to ourselves.Maybe we are asking the divine for answers,subconciousy,or,as i beleive we are all god,ie,god is us,me you,so on,we are asking our higher self,just a thought.love,irisx
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Chotuni
Posted 8/1/2008 10:15 AM (#8201 - in reply to #8199)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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I pray because I hope
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instinctual
Posted 8/1/2008 2:31 PM (#8209 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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What amazing thoughts from my amazing friends. You all brought up various aspects of my personal take on prayer. I guess my concern is the manipulation that you also mentioned,

Paul...not to suggest you feel that way, but that you mentioned the word like I did . Perhaps I feel that manipulation has a negative connotation, and I would feel more comfortable using manifestation?

I fear if I am manifesting events, circumstances, etc- in my future by praying for events or things that may not be plotted out for me, what is the point? On the flip side of this cosmic

coin, 2 people recently informed me ........

that I have taken on a hard life. While I agree this has been true, I don't want a hard life, anymore! I want health joy and prosperity! IF I just sat down to accept this as my lot, I would be a Martyr, no thank you!!!!!!!!!!!


I must be honest here. At times I find myself not praying, not meditating, not connecting to the spark of the divine within my self, just sort of surrendering to the powers that be. However I

have to say that when I take a moment retrospectively, I realize that I engage in a constant "unintentional" stream of prayer and meditation all day long, and as Chotuni so simply,

eloquently and beautifully stated, I have Hope. I realize that although it is not conscious, ie, "I am going to sit and pray and or meditate right now", it is always within my internal soul dialog.

My inner self, my spark. Perhaps I am in a constant state of prayer? And also as I often refer to Mother Theresa, the absolute definition of faith had an inner knowing on a cellular level

that she believed in the work of Jesus Christ, yet her elevated spirit and mind did not recognize it...she just kept on plugging! Perhaps I find myself at a crossroads regarding my own

personal beliefs? Perhaps I want to, or am being led to a religion or system which celebrates manifestation, as long as it harms no one ? I am grateful to be able to share these very

personal feelings with you all.

Love and Happy Things,
Lori


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instinctual
Posted 8/1/2008 5:25 PM (#8214 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Thank you kindly, Cara Mia xo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 8:56 AM (#8418 - in reply to #8214)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Looking back, feel this is a really important thread and topic.

Agree to some extent with Sunflower about taking God's name in vain and it does distrub me when I hear people say, 'Oh - gawd', etc ...

Agree also that prayer can be perceived as manipulation, 'gimme, gimme gimme', etc ....

~Often think back to Jesus, quoted as asking for his particular cup tobe taken from him, but, if the Higher Power willed it, - 'Thy will not my will be done'.

So, back then to surrender - love, devotion and surrender - yet equally, how difficult that can be

To lie back in the arms of the Divine and be propelled or impelled into the union in which we already are ...

which takes me back to my original response !

Namaste, in prayer
Paulo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 9:59 AM (#8439 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A playful response:

'Why pray?'

Answer

'What else should we do' ?!
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 1:46 PM (#8484 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Last week, I started this thread, and my internal dialog was one of disillusionment and lack of faith. An event was presented to myself and my family this weekend that is trying to teach me that prayer does indeed work, faith has no boundaries, and all happens for the best. How wonderful and timely this event was. Ugh....The great Divine said..."Lori? Let me give you a reason to depend on me. Let me give you a reason to pray. Let me reassure you that faith is indeed beautiful".

I am so happy we are all enjoying this!

L
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 2:59 PM (#8495 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Yes my friend Cara, that is more than OK...I guess I posted that because I am reaching out. Please pray for the safety and wellbeing of my beautiful innocent and precious 3 month old grand daughter Jordyn. This is more than a request for magical manifestation. She needs protection, as does my son.
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 4:57 PM (#8515 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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At risk of making waves, I cannot but not say, I said, 'partially', because I feel that truly resonant vibrancy is to act consciously. I thus think it limits ourselves and damages God, yes I do think that 'God' can be damaged, the truly really, gentle God in our hearts, if we use her or him as some kind of curse or last resort of some scoundrelsy that we ourselves might have committed.

However, back to Lori, Jordyn and the Divine Real-ness-es,

Back also to the Biblical prayer guidance, we are enjoined to pray as if, 'as if', the miracle of prayer-realization had happened. That is, to first of all, give thanks, 'as if' : in other words, I think, interpret, whatever, there is something in the act of prayer, being prayerful, that,

we are told,

if we believe it, truly, it is possible -

if it accords with the Divine Will:

and if it doesn't, then what will be for the best will unfold anyway, provided we pray for it.

This sounds terribly ruthless, I know, and I know nothing of dear Lori's situation, and my prayers even now are seeking to align myself with the Best:

Miranda in The Tempest: "everything happens for the best in this, the best possible of all worlds" (haven't checked that oft repeated quote I come back to again and again -if only to convince myself!)

Our faith can move mountains, yet mountains do not seem to move. Though the Buddhist saint Milarepa pushed his hand into a mountain (the print is still there, so I am told) - not to show his king fu, but to demonstrate the reality of energy.

Sorry, wandering off: Lori, my prayers are with you, send me a PM if this reads like nonsense or if you want to commune some more xx

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/4/2008 4:59 PM
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 5:04 PM (#8517 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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That is so appreciated, I am grateful. You know, I always lay fetal when I sleep, and as I shared with some here already when I automatically assume a back lying position it means I am ready to astral travel. Well, last night I woke because I realized that my eyes were fluttering, my arms were both over my head and my heart was skipping beats. When I watched my grand daughter peacefully in her slumber this morning, I realized that I was taking on her natural body position which is exactly what I just stated. I feel like I allowed myself to receive her, if that makes any sense. Oh, what a crappy day....why does life present you with such challenges? I don't want to learn any more lessons!!!!!!

Thank you for your prayers, Cara...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 10:43 PM (#8535 - in reply to #8517)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Location: United Kingdom
Sorry for your crappy day Lori; what can one say that doesn't sound trite at such times ... just hope for you & yours that things become brighter x

&
Holy Blessings

Paul

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/4/2008 10:43 PM
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Supernatural3
Posted 8/5/2008 12:21 AM (#8554 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray, because sometimes this place really SUCKS.

but most the time, it's beautiful... so I chat, in thanks, instead.

Then I prey..... because I can. LOL
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Tracy Martin
Posted 8/5/2008 1:00 AM (#8556 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Lori, you have a soul-full connection with your granddaughter.  She is here, in part, to show you an even wider perspective of the power of love and the wonder of life. Perhaps, whatever the situation may be, she is here to show you how to let go of fear, and to trust in the soul's divine purpose and passion. You have a strong bond with her, and can strengthen her and the people around her with your highest, lightest, most loving thoughts, and your most grounded and steady earth energy. Joining with her in spirit planes, you can be a magnet of attraction for her highest good. Know that your compassion and good will are aligned with powerful forces which seek the best for you and those whom you influence. Don't let your mind be attached to fearful thoughts about the future, let those thoughts go. Be presently aware of loving energy surrounding and emanating from your granddaughter. Our children's children will have their challenges to face, but I believe they are going to surprise us with their wisdom and grace. I am speaking as a grandmother too, already aware of the personal challenges my own granddaughter faces, letting anxiety about future suffering go, and feeding the wondrously bright energy of her spirit now. 
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/5/2008 2:57 AM (#8560 - in reply to #8556)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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wise words, wise women !
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instinctual
Posted 8/5/2008 10:17 AM (#8571 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Oh Tracy..


Sigh..I am so touched by your post, I am just stunned with the outpouring...your words resonate such peaceful truth...they are so healing to me..they will keep me grounded and glued...my feelings do stem of of complete fear...I must let it go..I must let it ride its own course separate from my self...I must be present in the gift I was given in her...
So much love and light to you, and all my dear friends here who have reached out and touched me so sweetly and kindly...
Always,
Lori
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Rose
Posted 8/5/2008 7:46 PM (#8582 - in reply to #8495)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Oh yes I always keep you and yours in my prayers Instinctual. I pray for everyone and their families that cross the path of UMS....somehow I feel we're all closely connected in some way.

I pray daily and yes meditate...somehow it seems to bring me to a happy and balanced place. It's when I don't pray/meditate that I feel things are out of balance somehow. Prayer and meditation bring me to a peaceful place of existence. The place we go when we pray is home, it's here that I feel I am the visitor.

Love and Peace to you Instinctual and everyone who crosses our path here.
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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 1:36 PM (#8641 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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((((Rose)))) sweet lady...thank you. Your blessings are returned to you, always...Hope all is well...staying cool over there??

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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 2:13 PM (#8649 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Cara-
That is so kind and lovely. It rings such truth. I do have faith that all is working as it should...and this event in our lives happened days after I questioned what faith indeed is...so how is that for a message and validation??? More than an ah ha! moment or an angel wink. In fact, it was the B O N K on the head that I refer to in my own web site, my own teachings...
Time to take my own medicine!

Blessings to you, sweet Cara...xox

Thank you too!
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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 6:01 PM (#8663 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Those are beautiful passages, thank you for sharing them.. xo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 8:58 AM (#8711 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Cara - that is also one of don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreements

... Lori - I really must check out that web-site of yours, thanks ...

..... I have been wondering if I should put Saint Theresa's wonderful maxim, as a signature, (mentioned it before I think but always worth another plug):

" All the way to Heaven is Heaven"
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