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DEATH ANYONE?
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sunflower
Posted 7/27/2008 7:31 AM (#7839 - in reply to #7827)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


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dearest cara,you have in no way offended anyone,i deeply sympathise with your current situation.You seem to be very much in tune with your inner self,and my thoughts and love are with you throughout.You are right in saying the subject to be comlex,as so many differnt situations,call for different reactions,emotions,i admire your strengh,and courage,and do beleive that it is not death or dying that is fearful as such,but the process.Someone once said,of another,who was giving advice,to truly understand,walk a mile in my shoes,very true.I will not go on,as i usualy do,but had to say,there is so much differences for people,in the same situation,that they may all be on the same path,but for each the experience,and outcome ,will inevitably be different.love and peace to you my friend,irisx
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instinctual
Posted 7/27/2008 5:54 PM (#7847 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Hi Cara..welcome and I wish you much happiness, joy and peace on your path.

Lori
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mruppert
Posted 7/27/2008 11:30 PM (#7860 - in reply to #7827)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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And, I bleive truly believe that even the faithful has doubts when itcomes to death. And, again it may not be the kind of doubts/fears thatone normally expects.

Hello CaraKiddo,
     Just as you believe, so do I....but, I believe with the essence of my being, that "we" move, by convention, from one state of being to another. I am convinced that we also can move freely between several states of being!
     We had to give a name to the state of being after our corporeal body ceases to function in relation to those around us. We made up a word "death" and it takes on a ominous meaning. The word is different for others, muerte, omerte, thanos..blah blah blah. It is just a word! It bears little relation as to what actually occurs.
     It is like the word "ghost"...you say the word "ghost" and it is a conditioned reaction to think that the presence is somehow misguided, malevolent or downright evil. And, we treat it as such. BUT, we don't know that to be true! However, the word ghost instills automatic fear in us, much the same response as Pavlov's dogs to a ringing bell. In other words, conditioned and responsive to the terms of the conditioning.
      Let me try another way of putting this....you see an ant crawling along a sidewalk, and you step on that ant. Did the ant suffer any anxiety over the foot that was about to step on it? The ant had no fear, just purpose!
      Now, you will say that the ant in my example does not think. You are basically correct. But, we DO think, and that is why it seems to me so completely irrational to fear something that we know will inevitably happen. We would like it to be more pleasant than a foot smashing us, but sometimes it is not. Yet, if you are spiritually guided, it is not a cause for torment, but a door to another place, maybe more joyous than one can imagine.
If you wish, go to My Chymical Wedding, and read more about this subject.

Peace and Love,
Marty and CittyCats, Lucky, Poppy and Sisssssyyyyyy
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/28/2008 12:56 AM (#7867 - in reply to #7860)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Perhaps many people do fear death (the unknown to some), and I couldn't agree more, but I have ZERO fear of death, it's not unknown to me, it's a known. I don't know why to be honest, I think I feel it's a reward. But I have always been backwards on just about everything.

   I also agree very much about the word DEATH, sounding so scary. But all things that are born, must die, and all things that die, will be re-born. I give tarot readings, and when the death card comes out, people tend to have a panic look on their face. I say "no need to fear, the death card means new beginnings". I tell them it also means the end of what it's next to. In my last case, the death card was next to an aggressive card, so I told the client that their father was going to stop being forceful, less aggressive and more passive.  She explained that he already has become less aggressive. I confirmed what she already knew.

     Marty states "It is like the word "ghost"...you say the word "ghost" and it is a conditioned reaction to think that the presence is somehow misguided, malevolent or downright evil". You got that right.... unless your a ghost hunter, even talking about ghosts just freaks people out. I cannot stand it when other ghost hunting teams jump to conclusions about ghosts being evil. Chances are slim to none that a ghost is really evil..... maybe holding on to it's shadow side, confused, lost, but 99% of it being EVIL. 

Another thing I feel Marty is right about: Conditioning. We are all programmed from the time we are born, till the day we die. Because our brains learn on a constant level. We are always watching, observing, taking in and filing such data. If we were raised certain ways, while that instilled morals, much of it is overkill and control. I spend many days re-programming people out of depression.... in exchange for heightened self esteem. I have watched people transform, in a matter of two hours of self acceptance through hypnosis. But.... we are more than our brains... we are eternal energy and intelligence. So, if we go deep, we can dig for cell memory. Past life regressions are fantastic for reaching cell memory..... Eternal intelligence.

Death..... is none. just change.... It is those left behind that suffer. A temporary condition.  

I did not mean to ramble.... it's late and i have been missing my time in here.
Blessings~

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mruppert
Posted 7/28/2008 4:20 AM (#7874 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Yes, indeed, that famous card in the tarot, the thirtenth of the major arcana.....the bridge card between the tenth (Fortune) and the sixtenth (Destruction), 26 divided by 2=13. Complementary to the eightenth card (Moon).
Jillster is one of the few people who undertstand this stuff, and that is why I love her.

Peace Out....
Marty and Cartographic Cats, Luck, Popp and Siss 
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/28/2008 7:21 PM (#7902 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Welp, on my way back to hospital, I guess we are pulling the tubes out tonight. He is not improving and it's clearly written in his will that he did NOT want life support. We are sticking to his wishes, looks like today is the day. Will be back later...
HUGS
Jill
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instinctual
Posted 7/28/2008 7:35 PM (#7905 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Jilly-Sending you and your father and all souls involved blessings and surrounding you all with white light..

Lots of Love
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mruppert
Posted 7/28/2008 8:05 PM (#7909 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Ohhhhhhhh Jill, walk with god, and know that, if it were me, I would want someone with enough guts to yank the plug. There is more to life, than we will ever ever know...a neverending story!

Bitter and Sweet tears,
Marty and sadcats, Luck, Popp and Siss 
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Kiddo Green
Posted 7/29/2008 1:31 AM (#7913 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


I know you don't know me, Jill. Just know that I am thinking of you and praying for you.

Much love,
Cara
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/29/2008 11:41 AM (#7931 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Hey Cara, Welcome! Good to see you here. Thank you for your prayers.
Also, Thank you Marty and Lori....and everyone else who has sent their healing energy. It's working. 

Can you all believe that he is breathing on his own? His blood pressure even went down a little bit. They were amazed at how well he is doing. So we have to debate whether or not we place him back on anti-biotics. Since that isn't life support, we will say yes.

While I am afraid to get my hopes up, we cannot believe he is actually improving with out being forced to breathe. This may be temporary, but I hope not.

Thank you again~



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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/29/2008 12:19 PM (#7933 - in reply to #7931)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Blessings & continuing healing to you and yours then Jill ... as in my bee story of Sunday (from the sublime to the ridiculous, possibly ...) .... 'never say die' !
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/29/2008 4:59 PM (#7958 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Well, I guess we have to let go..... He is not conscious. Still breathing on his own, his breathing has gotten shallower. We are placing him in a hospice center. It may be a couple days, or another month, but he won't make it through in this body. He has not regained consciousness....

So, basically we have to prepare for his death. Our family is trying to decide whether to creamate or burry. Both his parents were creamated, so I am pretty sure that is the rout we will go.

I personally plan on creamation. I just cannot see taking up unneeded space, while turning earth into one huge coffin death star. If we keep burring all our dead in non-biodegradable metal coffins, we will ultimately create one huge metal star, maybe a super large satelite. LOL I dunno, i think of Star Wars and the planet made of metal..... Death Star.... You know the one.

I personally do not want to be burried at all. If my husband needs that, he may do it, but NO COFFIN, unless it's bio-degradable.... like my body. My schmo dawg was barried in a cardboard box and I feel that is good enough for me too. But, would rather be creamated and placed in a jar, with a happy face on it. Specifically placed on my hubby's night stand. If he dates again, his new girl will say..... oh, that is a beautiful vase, what is that? He will say.... My Wife, and she is still here with us. HA HA HA HA The look will be priceless.....

I know, I already know that is how I would want it, IF I go first. If I don't.... I know this is sick, but I want to keep my hubby's skull. Wonder if they will let me? He knows it and said, heck, he won't be needing it, so why not. He is placing that in his will.  LOLOL  I have always wanted a human skull for deco. I am a halloween freak. It could be halloween all year round, still my favorate. I told him I was going to place some bling on his tooth.... then said, NAW.... j/k

We both tease the crap out of each other on a daily basis, but we are so close, it's like our minds are connected, our souls are one. He knows it when I am not feeling good, before I tell him. I know his thoughts too.... it's so freaky to be so twin like.

I still have no fear of death. I do fear my kids not having me though.... i fear their loneliness. I fear them needing their momma, and their momma not being there for them. That is what I fear. If I lost one of them, honestly, I would want to join them as soon as I could. Yet I would know that the others still need me. So I guess I let fate run it's course and don't worry about it much, knowing that when it's my time, it's my time. What is..... is.  It's all good.

Off to say good bye to dad. I am taking my mom with me. They have been divorced for over 35 years, but she still loves him deep down. She feels guilty now for leaving him. I have held onto a lot of resentment towards my father. Time to let it go..... Time to love him, unconditionally, so he can take that with him.

I finally started to cry.... I feel so awkward, yet sad. I live a very spoiled life, filled with friends, love, a whole different family and everything I need. I didn't have my dad growing up, but got over that. Now there is no chance to ever rekindle a closeness. My sister and I enherit everything, his partner just died too, it's weird. Not sure how to handle that either. I feel guilty, because I know this will help my own family get out of debt. But I didn't want it this way....i would have rather stuggled, and had my dad live longer, happier.

Ohhh what a strange feeling. Somewhat lost.... will lay back and just let it flow.

The conjure one song i put in the song section is my life. to a T.

HUGS and blessings to all....






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Kiddo Green
Posted 7/29/2008 5:19 PM (#7959 - in reply to #7958)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


WOW! So much going on. As you write, I reflect on my own cricumstance...not in a selfish way, but in a contemplative way. That's how it should be, and I am glad you are participating in this forum. It reminds me that I am right where I am supposed to be, doing exactly what I am supposed to be doing, CONSCIOUSLY...though not perfectly.

I just can't imagine...and I try not to imagine what it will be like...because I just won't know until it actually happens.

Again, love, strength, and peace,
Cara
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/29/2008 5:31 PM (#7960 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Thank you Cara,
I do so much beleive in fate and that we are exactly where we are supposed to be at all times.
Even if we do not like it, it's our choice to change it, but then again, known change anyway.

I just don't know what to expect, or how long things will keep going for him. Certainly not too long. At least perhaps we can take the IV out. He was a pin cushion for the last 60 days.

Comfort is all we want now. Or a tempropedic pillow. (anyone watch weeds?) lol.

Thanks so much for being here with me. I finally was able to dedicate some time to my favorate forum and friends.

Blessings~



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Kiddo Green
Posted 7/30/2008 3:30 AM (#7975 - in reply to #7960)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


LOL! yes, I love the show Weeds. And, I love my tempurpedic and its pillows. Got to love it.

WEll, I am glad you can laugh through this. IT soothes the soul.

Much love, Cara
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/30/2008 3:59 AM (#7977 - in reply to #7975)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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My mother still has around her flat, the ashes of various pets they have had over the years, now added to with the ashes of my father; I have given up trying to persuade me to scater them in the sea, as he would have wished, I think, as clearly she is not ready for that ... it is very very hard to know what is for the best ...

.... to save funeral fees, and to make useful use of my body, i have signed it over en bloc to medical science - though they only seem to want you if you died 'in good health' !!?? maybe they don;t you if you are mashed up in road kill (sorry, getting macabre now) ... but my family are unhappy with this becuase they will have no grave to visit ... there is a once a year serice for all who have gone in this way, but my wife feels it not fair on the children ...( I cannot be buried with them because I am not Jewish ! Ha ha - the Rabbi asked if I would be willing to convert, i said, from what to what ... (since all religions are a unity for me) ...

.... even in death there is much room for confusion and misunderstanding

Hope it goes well, in any event Jill, as well as it can x

Blessings
Paul

Edited by Paul Joseph 7/30/2008 4:00 AM
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sunflower
Posted 7/30/2008 4:48 AM (#7987 - in reply to #7958)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


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each to his own,and i greatly sympathise with your situation,you have been very graphic,and indeed must be under a lot of stress.Whilst it may be true that burying a loved one in the ground,may seem a waste of earth,space,i feel,it is much more innocuous,to be using natures bounty for the greed of man,such as cutting down trees,desroying beautiful pastures green,or any space deemed vacant,to build highways,unsightly buildings,etc,so man can travel from a to b faster,or build numerous flats,offices,much of which are not needed,or indeed used,especialy for the poor people who really need them,but are not consisdered,because of the pricing etc.I personaly,would rather be sitting in the peace and stillness of a cemetry,where i find a lot of spiritual comfort,and feel surrounded by divine love.I feel,that as my daughter was,and still is a very kind,loving spiritual person,she would have wanted the burial i gave her,for our last goodbye,earth to earth,for i feel that burning,cremation,is a sort of pick and mix,i.e.not as much care and thought is put into it,and the ashes burned and retrieved,scooped into an urn,are,by knowing a cremation attendent,not those entirely of a loved one exclusively,therefore if you were god forbid to cremate your beloved husband,and keep him by your bedside,he may indeed be in there with mabel,or
alice.This of course is an opinion,at the end of the day,the body is just a shell,and the spirit has aready departed,long before the ceremony,and gone home.I did feel that your words touched a nerve,but i know.with love,was not intended,but has now made me ponder on what i did for my daughter, she herself was unable to make the choice,was what she would have wanted,in conclusion,and by an instant thought,the answer is yes.Therefore,i will leave you with my sincere loving thoughts,and reflect what was discussed.
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Chotuni
Posted 7/30/2008 7:56 AM (#7999 - in reply to #7977)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


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Hi all, Many years ago my Father was a fireman and my Mother saw a friend who she han't seen for a long time and the friend asked about my Dad. My Mom replied he had been burnt and her friend, knowing his job, said she hoped it hadn't been bad, to which my Mom replied "Well they don't mess about in these crematoriums". Anyway getting back to the point my brother recently died in Italy and being a Catholic country there were problems with cremation and eventually permission was given but to cut a long story short he was cremated at a municipal site and the urn his wife was given contained all sorts.Sorry to digress again but my Mom had my Dad's urn on the mantlepiece and an old Uncle used to visit and would flick the ash off his cigar into the urn. My Grandma, who came by only rarely, once visited and was looking at his ashes and said,"Do you know I think Arthur is putting on weight" Well she was a little"eccentric". Getting back to the point personally I wish to be buried in  biodegradable wicker basket with a tree planted on top of me. I know exactly where I want it to be but it is on land owned by a University and I don't know if they would allow it.I am not asking yet as hopefully it won't be for a while.  
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sunflower
Posted 7/30/2008 8:37 AM (#8002 - in reply to #7977)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


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ohh paulo,to turn your body over to medical science,you get paid a large fee in advance,i.e. before you are dead,me thinks this is the reason,but you were rejected,as there was nothing of your person worth using,hahah!By the way,how come the posts are moved from their original standing,at someones will,to make it look completely different in context,to the true meaning,of what the post was referrring to.Is this an act of god,or someone trying to play god,with others sensitive issues,there is an awful lot ofshall we saykissing the bottom,and some made out to to be revered,almost on a pedestal,when in fact,if lookd at in true reality,a peice of paper,is just that,a piece of paper,some with meaningless typed words on,which in fact mean,nothing,nul and void.Oh my,never mind the ramlings of a young woman,who truly beleives,with mind,body,spirit soul,that the deciding factor,the truth,in all its glory,lies in the hands of the divine.I strongly beleive in karma,forever i will defend the TRUE spirit,until i go to my true home,there at least,i will see the whole picture,and the real truth,on this earthplane,we are easily clouded,and deceived,see you at the gate!!! Still think someone is deliberately messing with my computer,my doctor has not certified me neurotic,mentaly ill,so on,and the house is still active with light and dark.Fairwell,my fairweathered friend.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/30/2008 8:49 AM (#8005 - in reply to #8002)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Chothuni - I am sorry for your loss; please accept my condolences.

Sunflower - sorry but I am not sure again, what you are saying here : I have not been paid to donate my body; it just seemed a sensible thing to do, but I wa also poitning out the emotions involved that might make me change my mind ... I too think the idea of natural burials is beter for the longer term of the planet, but they require more planning that i feel able to give to it ...

./.. not sure what you mean about posts being moved from their original standing ... or the next part of what you say ... I thought everyone was seeking to show respect for everyone else here; if you feel I have been disrespectful in any way, please let me know ...

... and as for fairweathered friend, again, I am non-plussed, a little hurt, if I am honest, but there we go.

I may just have the wrong end of the stick. Best to you, as ever
Paul
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sunflower
Posted 7/30/2008 8:57 AM (#8008 - in reply to #8005)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?


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no,no,no,i am so sorry,i didn,t mean to hurt you in any way,i sicerely apologise if that is the case,you amongst others ,i would never,ever deilberately hurt,if you hurt,i hurt,if you cry,icry,if you laugh,i laugh.luv and hugs irisxxx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/30/2008 9:00 AM (#8009 - in reply to #8008)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Oh then that's a relief; phew;

Relieved of Mafeking x
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/30/2008 10:38 AM (#8015 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Sorry to hear of such trauma Chotuni, Love and hugs to you. Sunflower, I can certainly understand why some would burry, as I do not think it's wrong, I just see it as something I do not want personally. Not at any time would I feel that those who want that, should not be able to do that. I too, love sitting in a grave yard, but soon our world will be nothing but grave yards. I also have plenty of loved ones in those grave yards, and well.... we always grant the wishes of our loved ones.

As far as creamation, I know it's possible to have a little mix of left overs from others into the urn too. But primarily, it would be mostly them. It's only the thought of them, aftarwards, that keeps the love going. I carried my mother-in-law home on my lap, after her funural and I thought that was a unique experience. The urn was heavier than I ever imagined and it's sealed. Nobody would be flicking their ashes into it. I do find that disprespectful, but I am sure it was an innocent mistake. People sometimes do not pay attention to small details. Once I found a beautiful vase inside of a second hand store, and when i picked it up to get a closer look, it was an urn. Filled..... Oh my. I took it to the store manager and explained that they were selling someones remains. Did they know that? They were shocked.... So those urns do not always look like urns.

It is my own personal desire to be creamated over being buried, but by no means should someone feel they should do as I think..... I feel everyone should do as THEY feel.... Many see things differently and that is what makes us all wonderful.

My dad is now in hospice. I am about to leave and go spend time with him. He doesn't have long.

Hugs and LOVE, and so sorry I accidently offended someone elses belief system. Not my intention at all. To each their own.... with love.
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instinctual
Posted 7/30/2008 11:10 AM (#8017 - in reply to #7640)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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Jilly-

Dad is where he needs to be, as you say, and this is true. Hospice is wonderful because they focus purely on palliative care and comfort. They are angels there. Lots of wonderful drugs that can just help him with pain ( not necessarily OUCH-my toe hurts pain ) but outward signs of pain, especially for someone unable to speak...ie increased respirations and increased blood pressure, facial grimacing, agitation, etc ). Hang touch, keeping crying, girl...such power in those tears.

Love and Light sweet friend~
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Rose
Posted 7/30/2008 11:19 AM (#8018 - in reply to #8017)
Subject: RE: DEATH ANYONE?



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This is so true instinctual. My Father is doing much better under care. At least he's happy and healthy. And he's gotten used to his roommate. So he makes lots of friends.

Love and Peace to you and keeping Doc, Instinctual and all in my Prayers...
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