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Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/9/2008 10:17 PM (#6966)
Subject: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Plz note before reading this, that I am not at all religious & if it appears to be so, it is bc I have been influenced by western society. The reason I have stipulated this is simple; I find religion tends to separate ppl into different camps. Therefore if you must label me label then label me spiritiual. The word spirituality tends to unite. You can see why I like it better.


Heres an analogy of mine that came to me as a wee lass. The more romantic turn of mind might call it a vision. Smiling. Funnily enough I was brushing my hair in the mirror (in a meditative, mindless way) when this vision for want of a better word came to me.

Here it is...

My reflection is me, though to all intents and purposes, it isnt, its a reflection. So even though in truth it is me bc it is my reflection, it is not - being that it is merely a reflection of all that I am. Simply a reflection with no power of its own except of course the power I give to it by merely looking in the mirror - creating a reflection. Bc this is my reflection and exactly born in my image, it will also believe (be living) that I am....like me...right? I know "I am" so in accordance - my reflection will also think, believe and know "I am". And it is....At this point there is no separation between us...we are one. Smiling - are you following me my lovely dual minded creature?

Now imagine this image (this reflection)...has taken its eyes off me (its creator)and in time becomes blind to the truth of itself - caught up in the world of 'mirror'. It is here separation has occured. The fall from grace. It has run away with itself and is now being what it is ..........an imitation (an ego a brain a belief) of the truth of itself. Though it was born in my image - it is no longer living in my word or in my image. It has forgotten the source of itself.....The Truth...and the further and further away it gets ...the less powerful this reflection gets and the less remembered its true state..............and...the less it becomes...until eventually it fades (grows old) gets sick or/and dies....

YOU ARE AN IMAGE...A REFECTION OF GOD - of yourself you are nothing - it is the Father in you that does the work... and until you have your eyes stayed on God (the truth of yourself) you will forever remain an image and never know eternal life. You will be limited and live in limitation through separation. You will fade - grow old and die - in separation

Yes yes you are a clever image (being an image of God - of course you are). You can think, feel, and use your five senses. You can create and accumulate knowledge that will inturn form beliefs and dogmas etc. But that isnt the truth or even an image of the truth. It is an image of an image and will remain so until your eyes are stayed on God (which is you!!! l the truth of You!!!) and he is living his life for you - through you. Your senses your knowledge when in separation are just wonderful qualities inherent of an image - nothing more nothing less. All these things are the domain of the image and makes one feel powerful. But dont forget without the spark of life (God or truth or whatever), you would not experience this image. You have the raw energy of life bc Gods eyes are stayed on you. See what happens when "I" (GOD) (like "you" have done) -takes his eyes off you and walks away from the mirror - whilst in separation. You cannot live without "All that I am" or "The truth" of you or GOD's spark. Death occurs. Thats what happens. Walk away from the mirror and what happens to the reflection? Smiling. Hmmm.

But when you through meditation or prayer become one with yourself (God) then you can say .."the Father and I are one" as Jesus did....the greatest metaphysicican of all time. (Biasedly said lol). When your reflection has it eyes stayed on you again..then you may live your life through it. The reflection though has free will. God is good and God is patient. God has to be rofl.

When this reflection (YOU).......stops in meditation and prayer...and is ......still...still enough to hear Gods voice (Your own true voice) calling out to it or focus on HIS presence and look into HIS eyes (so to speak) again...then and only then will HIS word...HIS truth may be imparted into this image (YOU) and once again we become one. "The Father & I are one". Separation is no more. Smiling - are you lost? Think about it..take your time. It will come to you.

This image can then live my truth (which is Gods truth)...the truth it was born to live. The two become one. One rises above cause and effect or the fall from grace if you like. Welcome to eternal life. The created and the creator become one. The truth does not die but the image will in separation. But until that time - your image is........lost in the world of mirror (life)...the glittering 'evils' (life) of the "mirror life' so to speak and unaware of its true state.

Remember these words.... The father and I are one. The two become one. Jesus knew it and now its time for you to know too.

The image cannot comprehend God bc it is an image with no power of its own. So I dont know WHAT it is but I do know THAT it is. "I am" beyond knowledge but not beyond 'knowing' and/ or - 'being'. "I AM" BEYOND KNOWLEDGE. The image can never know me -God - bc knowlege belongs to the facilty of the mind/mirror/ego/image and I am beyond mind & beyond image. But - "I" can comprehend this image and it can know me through 'being' one with me in meditation or prayer. So you will never comprehend God but he will comprehend you.You can though live in his word. You can BE his word. Btw - the word is another word for image. You are HIS word HIS image.

To reiterate further ..it would be like me painting a picture (the created being the painting - and I am the creator of it)..and asking the painting to comprehend the painter - me. It cannot be done.

So BE still (in meditation and prayer )...and know that I AM.

And tell me this also...who is more evil? one who believes (be living) in evil or one who does not? And have you ever noticed evil is live spelt backwards and that devil is lived spelt backwards. lol..I dont believe in coincidences btw

I look forward to all and every response. Kind Regards...Tracy xx

Edited by Tracy Ann 7/9/2008 10:45 PM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/10/2008 4:53 AM (#6972 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Dear Tracy Ann

Nice to hear from you & for you to register; this is to acknowledge hearing/receiving your thoughts here, and to say that I will read and respond more fully when I can give it the atention it deserves- deep stuff & many strands ... !
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/10/2008 5:47 AM (#6975 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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A slightly longer, though still inadequate, reply -

Much resonation with what you say; not sure JC was the only greatest metaphysician of all time ... Buddha was pretty good (though I am one of those who tend to think that JC was a Buddhist/Yogi and travelled to India during the 'lost years' and after) ...

Not sure if we are a 'reflection' - though I sometimes too tend to say that - or an 'incarnation' (each of us, like JC, just sometimes we are at diferent vibrations of development) - or a 'spark' (a la Kabbala)

Not sure too of the meaning of words spelt backwards - eg, dog is G-d spelt backwards !

Tend to feel that there is some 'reality' to evil ([your other thread refers] earlier threads have discussed this); that God is good and evil who always chooses good, as we have the potential to too (suggested that is our difference, one of, from angels -they are bound to serve God, or the Divine Spirt, or the Univrsal Energy, roses by different names) - although that then can be undermined by the fundamental unreality of this existence, as being one of the vibrational learning spheres of the Higher Power ...

must get on with my day job ... thanks for thread ...
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/10/2008 7:32 AM (#6981 - in reply to #6975)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Smiling - I think I mentioned my bias towards JC as you term him but ty you again for you response.

When I say reflection, I mean an image - born in Gods image with no power of our own except the power HE (term used lightly) gives us. To me - to believe you have power other than that is to believe in separation and limitaton and is the work of the ego.

I think I have articulated myself well so therefore conclude we are at different levels of thought, neither being right or wrong. A concept is a concept is concept. I do believe the truth runs parallel to reasoning but at some stage surpasses it. Hence my discussion of meditation and prayer. A personal experience of love truth and God. To each his own. But in that still we become and realize we are one.

I myself am sure of the meaning of words evil and dog etc..and eluded to as such by stating I believe in no coincidences. Live being evil spelt backwards points to being one half of the whole. In other words. The invisible is God. Life is evil. Two halves of one whole. Separation is the fall from grace which is the belief in 2 powers. Myself and then God...when there is not - there is only god manifesting himself as you and me. The image believing itself a part from God instead of a part of God. When these two halves are joined together as one...THEN one brings heaven upon earth. Until that time..evil will manifest as the abscence of God..which is relativity..good and bad, black and white, day and night...on and on and on. See?

As I also stated in this thread or my other one..evil is relative or as you termed it 'reailty'. But it isnt reality when you are one with spirit. Relative is being in separation. Relative inspires measurement. Relative is a dual mind. Relative is 'life'. I am not saying evil or life is bad. It is what it is. Neither am I not saying evil does not exist, for naturally to our 5 senses - to all intent and purposes it does. What I am saying is it has no power of its own. What power does your reflection in the mirror have? You image? Can it live when you walk away from the mirror?

And when one lives in separation, one is not guided by love truth and God but by the ego and evil(the dual mind - left and right hemisphere) will be evidenced - by the 5 senses. But when one is ONE with spirit and the truth of him/herself then evil cannot exist. All evil is, is the absence of God. Was Jesus capable of evil? Was buddha?

Yes I agree there we are all at different stages of life/live/evil lol in our journey back to oneness.

Btw - I think I made myself clear. Good and bad is relative. I do not see God as good or god as bad. Such terms are relative and belong to the world of cause and effect. It is my business at present to rise above this ....where the yoke is lighter. Smiling.

Moreoer, I do not try to personify God and use HIS HIM HE etc as loose terms. I dont try to have knowledge of God or pretend to understand Him as I have pointed out.

I go within. I become still and wait and let my father do the work bc without him I am nothing and with him I am everything and everyone. I may not be where Im going but I am no longer where I was. I guess I am always becoming. God is omnipresent and omipotent is he not?

I think in principal we agree with one another....hmm...almost. Lol..I dont get caught up on personifying or measuring spirit or developing strong beliefs. Once I do or notice ppl doing this..a dogma is formed, I would then become and encourage puppets. Wars have been started this way. Beliefs tend to separate ppl rather than unite them. I

Rather - I speak from my centre, I let myself be guided by the light in the world through faith & law - I let go of all beliefs and concepts...as humanly possible (smiling here) and let there just be a deep awarness. I believe the bible terms it as a witness.

Im just a witness. DONT SHOOT THE WITNESS HAHA...I am nothing more or less. I simply am that I am. *winks*

K - Im going to bed. Nitey nite xx Ty again for your response.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/10/2008 7:42 AM (#6983 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
I too have a sense we are saying closely similar things; just slightly different nuances; so near as to make no matter; just wanted to respond in some way that's all; and short of saying yes yes yes, just picked up on the nuances ...

Spirit is One.

I did not mean to offend by use of JC - partly shorthand, also some people can be offended in different ways. Jesus was aware, I suggest, of his capacity for evil - in the NT he was tempted by Satan; and on the Cross, or was it in Gethsemane, he intimated that he wished his burden to be lifted, but, 'Thy will not my will be done' - hence the choosing thing !

Don't know what time it is where you are, but midday just gone here. No shooting ... 'Night night and good to have made your e-acqaintance.

Namaste
Paul
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searching
Posted 7/10/2008 11:08 AM (#6990 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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WOW tracy, that was deep and i truly enjoyed reading it. thank you .
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searching
Posted 7/10/2008 1:47 PM (#6992 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Tracy and Paul. i have read this thread several times and have liked it more each time. it does though take me back in time to when i was in 1st grade and would listen to the teachers discuss trigonometry...lol... you two are obviously very intelligent and have the conciseness to see the reality of the truth about what is real. i will continue to search for the same.
Jerry
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/10/2008 3:02 PM (#6993 - in reply to #6992)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
Jerry - don't know when 1st grade is wherever you are, but anyhow:

"May ye [we] be as little children"

Thanks
&
Namaste

Paul
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/10/2008 5:26 PM (#6995 - in reply to #6983)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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omgoodness did I seem touchy about the term JC? lmao...no no...Im not. You can call him a gummy bear if you like or Mr blobby lol. Its all just a name to me.

And yea He was tempted by satan (life) on many occasions. I believe when he said get behind thee satan he was talking about the five senses or as when he said on the cross ' oh why have thee foresaken me'.

Satan to me is a belief in two powers or separation. Nothing more or less. I dont separate Good and evil. One and the same to me. Some (not all) Christians are horrified I can say that haha. Such is life.

Ive enjoyed our conversations. Ty for replaying

tc and keep smiling

Edited by Tracy Ann 7/10/2008 5:47 PM
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/10/2008 6:01 PM (#6996 - in reply to #6992)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Ty for you kind thoughts ...xx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 3:48 AM (#7002 - in reply to #6996)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
Read and noted; will respond further but I have a busy morning; just wanted to acknowledge the contact !
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sunflower
Posted 7/11/2008 3:50 AM (#7004 - in reply to #6992)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.


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hi all,lovely words tracey,you seem to be finding yourself in your own way.Everyoe finds themselves in their own way,through trial and error,lifes experiences,traumas,etc,i feel it is when we place to much emphasis on books,sayings,others truths,etc,that we become confused,and lose our way.i.e.there are so many books out there on spirit,finding your true self,ways in how it should be done,as the authour sees it,all with different opinions,but beleiving their way IS the right way,that it makes sense to me to discard all,and find yourself,yourself,which can,and is done,by listening to your inner truth,and the help and gudance of divine spirit,angels,guardian angels etc,ask,and you shall receive.Jerry,i don,t think intelligence comes into it at all,you can be the dumbest in the class,but the richer in the spirt knowledge,the brain confuses,collects useless information,it may enable you to pass exams academicaly,and get certificates to adourn your wall,but spirit knowledge creeps in quietly,unassumingly,enriches the soul,your walls may be empty,but your heart is full,your spirit is whole,all done in the silence of your own room,love and hugs irisxxx
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stillness
Posted 7/11/2008 5:34 AM (#7007 - in reply to #6966)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.


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Just a thought..... when the mind is still, no amount of knowedge and information causes confusion and there is always space and time for clarity and oneness....

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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 6:24 AM (#7008 - in reply to #7004)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
Books are witness accounts of others' journeys, and indeed in some cases, historical records.

If we rely purely on our own self-seeking, apart from the loneliness of the path, we have nothing to triangulate our findings with.

Books are not the answer, neither are they the problem. They are tools to assist us. In my book, anyway !

In addition, there is some beautiful writing out there than can illuminate areas of darkness for us.

Interesting that totalitarian regimes always at some point or another, burn books.

Please keep reading & writing, One and All

Namaste
Paul
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/11/2008 7:08 AM (#7016 - in reply to #7007)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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My own personal opinion student is the mind is misused. We 'use' or rather it 'uses' us - to create thought instead of recieve it from 'all that is'. At this point in my personal evolution, I believe our mind is meant to be 'still' in meditation and prayer (pray without ceasing) and function 'only' as a witness to all that is. Then we will think and act as one in our unique individuality that is one with God. Thought being a natural manifestation of the creativity of life. The fact that none of us or very few of us are in sync with one another proves my point. We are separate in thought and action. Wars strife hate ...belief separates us all and is a manifestation of the 'imposter' 'the ego' 'the devil' (the lived) etc..so many names but the principal remains the same.

There is a difference between knowledge and knowing. One is stagnant and one is dynamic. One is looking from the outside and one is looking from the inside and both are one. Smiling. Life is a contrary paradox isnt it.

Thank you student for your time and attention to the waffling of a student of life herself. Seems the more I learn the less I know. I will take this as proof Im getting somewhere then lol.



Edited by Tracy Ann 7/11/2008 7:22 AM
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/11/2008 7:12 AM (#7017 - in reply to #7008)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Here I am smiling at you Paul. Hmm...triangulate,...qualitative quanitative research...the lived experience.....if I didnt know you were a nurse I do now lol. I like you..ty for you contributions. They like you are valued. Cheers.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 7:41 AM (#7019 - in reply to #7016)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Not sure who the 'student' is you are addressing ? Just the phrasing I think ...

... the more I learn the less I know : Socrates (check out the Uncertain thread if you like to see the link !)

...... yes, paradox is a fundamental paradox: 'only in dying, life' ..... (pun)

Stopping thought, stopping time, opening the door to Eternity. The Now.

'Imposter', 'Ego', 'Adversary', 'Error' - as there are many names of God, there are many names of a perceived opposing principal (Lucifer, bringer of light, aka Satan, the highest angel: though in the Book of Job, poor old human Job is victim of a kind of wager between 'Jahweh' and 'Satan'[ check out Jung's 'Answer to Job' if interested]): Yesterday a horrendous story in the London Times about a Nazi camp doctor who experimented on, including vivisection on, living human camp victims; then after the war practised again as a doctor (gynaecologist). My intuitive way of making some sense of such a castrophe is that the Universal Divine Self contains all, and is all possibility - it has to, for divine learning to have the potential for completion. But the ethical requirement, or invitation to us, is to choose the Good.

"In searching for You,
I lost myself
In losing myself
I found You"

[not sure whether I read that somewhere or made it up; so cannot attribute it, but popped into my mind this morning]

Namaste
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 7:42 AM (#7020 - in reply to #7017)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
Our posts have crossed in the warp, woof and thread ...

Likewise, contact & resonances felt x
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 7:48 AM (#7021 - in reply to #7017)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Dear Tracy Ann - just re-read your post - have to clarify; i am not a nurse; though, like Socrates, I aspire to be a midwife of the soul ! My professional background is social work, psychonalytic psychotherapy, higher education and .... UMS student !

Blessings & bestnesses to you
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/11/2008 8:03 AM (#7022 - in reply to #7021)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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lmao..k ..whos lori then?...lori mailed me and said he she was a nurse. I am confused now. Tisnt easy being blonde you know. Sighs. lol

Edited by Tracy Ann 7/11/2008 8:10 AM
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/11/2008 8:09 AM (#7023 - in reply to #7019)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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I try to make it a point now to never wonder why WW1 or WW2 happened or any such human failing or horror story. I am over getting caught up in error. Its like chasing ur own tail. As a nurse and having studied pathophysiology Ive realised we could spend years and years looking for answers to all the questions in error. To hell with all of it lol...we would be here all day. Simply turning the light on dispells all darkness. For the time being Im going with that. Seems to work. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes the more power they have to harm us.

Edited by Tracy Ann 7/11/2008 8:15 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 8:15 AM (#7024 - in reply to #7022)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
What is Imao .. k, please ? I am not Lori; I am Paul; Lori i believe is a nurse. Maybe Lori said to you I am one ( a nurse) ? Didn't realize Lori thought I was if she (you, Lori !) does/did ? Well, we all know now ... !! How funny life can be !

Blonde ? I am mostly grey.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 8:18 AM (#7025 - in reply to #7023)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Location: United Kingdom
I agree absolutely to what you have just said; I was just trying to respond meaningfully to some things you and others had posted about 'evil'.

I go more with John Martyn's song (UK folk/blues singer, getting on in years now):

" I don't want to know about evil, I only want to know 'bout love"

Namaste
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/11/2008 8:22 AM (#7026 - in reply to #7024)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



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Omgoodness haha I am out of my depth but having a good time diving in lol. Instinctual is Lori? I think I have the 2 of you confused. I am confused rofl. Erm...btw (by the way) lmao means Im laughing my arse off. I hope thats appropriate in this forum. Smiling. I am so sorry for the confusion. It must be time for my meds haha....I have a hard time staying compliant (just joking) lol.

And no I didnt say you were blonde, I was saying I am blonde though not for long Im sure being 38 and the way this conversation is going lol .......but Im having fun. Hope you are too.

smiling@you

Edited by Tracy Ann 7/11/2008 8:26 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/11/2008 8:28 AM (#7027 - in reply to #7026)
Subject: RE: Just one way of conceptualizing the truth/ The great paradox.



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
The conversation is great fun, thank you for it.

I suspected you were speaking of being blonde yourself, though your picture shows you otherwise.

I feel that the only thing inappropriate in this forum would be unpleasantness to others, which is not the case at all here !

Instinctual is Lori, and it is intriguing how you might have confused us.

Out of depth is a good way to learn to swim.

May Your Brightest Blessings Continue
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