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How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/6/2008 2:22 PM (#6418)
Subject: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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One of the reasons I cannot grasp the concept of some of our nations top religions are because they teach people that this lifetime will lead humans to either heaven or hell (due to this one life). They make people think that if they do the slightest thing wrong, they will inevitably burn in hell for eternity.

I do not get this concept. If we truly are eternal, then we already know all this stuff to begin with, because Earth life is only a blink compared to eternity. Wouldn't be like flunking a college student out of college, because they got into trouble in kindergarten. Yet, we do not learn, with out mistakes.

Why would we be judged so harshly, for a tiny fragment of who we may be, especially when our physical memory is taken away and we are only influenced by flawed humans. Everything spiritually written, is by man, and is ancient. It was also written during serious times of paranoia, as well as when herbs (hallucinogens) and shrooms were not illegal. Now we cannot get to those herbs, with out being thrown in jail, but we honor those words written while using them. Hmmmmmmm

Why do people take it so seriously? People actually kill other people over this belief system that cannot be proven, and it's still happening to this day.

I cannot say just one religion, because many of them are seriously corrupt.

I guess that is why i came up with my own - Jillism. It's all i can deal with. It's right for me at least and I will never kill another person for believing different, unless it's self defense.

What are other people's opinion.... Play nice please.


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Tracy Martin
Posted 6/6/2008 5:23 PM (#6425 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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I think people continue to create realities, either by returning here, or experiencing the astral planes, other dimensions, other worlds, or we return to Source.  Within the astral planes people can continue to create painful realities that might be hellish and joyful realities that might be heavenly. I resonated with the movie "What Dreams May Come" as a good description of some possibilities in the astral plane.

If one does believe that this life is the only lifetime they will have in which to explore meaning, purpose, personal evolution, then I would hope it provides incentive for them to grow and develop in a positive manner.  This is a really broad subject because we are talking about centuries of indoctrination in a reward/punishment system of thought. And then, there's the wheel of karma.

It is even harder to break away from our constant personal judgments when we live under a system of thought that encourages judgment and condemnation, hatred, and fear. We don't think it is so about ourselves, but we are very judgmental, and the funny thing is none of what we are judging can be proven to be 100% real.
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cause
Posted 6/7/2008 8:05 AM (#6427 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Jill,
You have the advantage of many people out there that don't have any ideas or belief in any existance in the hereafter. I would add that I find any existance after this life that has not a direct relation to this one to be easly undesireable. I find the idea of samsara quite frightful. The thought that my good acts here will have some permenent effect on the world and a recognition of these acts will take place is comforting to me.

My central message is, don't worry about it!!
I am sure the creator will treat his creation well.

love, and light,
cause
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Rose
Posted 6/7/2008 2:02 PM (#6428 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Oh Jill, you know I read your thoughts and feel so at home here. I completely understand what you're going through. So happy that I found this place and such warm wonderful people like you.

Jill, I've given much of the same thought to this situation as you have and what I've come up with is this: it's an Idealism. If you have an idea of a society, a blueprint if you will, of what the perfect society should be like then you must have something like this: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth; BIBLE. So you draw up a plan and a belief system that gets you there.

Now are there some simple truths in the Bible, teachings that you and I and many would know that YES this is the right path and without a shadow of a doubt this is God's word. Yes, I believe that we can instinctively pick out those parts. Are there parts that we may question as really being part of the true path? Absolutely. If we can pollute everything else on the face of this Earth it stands to reason that someone, somewhere along history has added their sense of pollution to the path that God has so clearly set out for us.

I will give you a more concrete example: if killing was a natural thing and it worked so well, then why are so many GI's suffering with mental and emotional illness's after war?

It stands to reason to me that it's not NATURAL for us to kill. That's why it poses so many problems when we do it.

"Thou shalt not kill." Okay so, in my world of simplicity, it stands to reason that this is God warning us and just think of how many illness' would not exist if for doing our best to stay away from this one single act.

The list of examples goes on and on, but I think you get the idea I'm aiming for here.

So the path has been redirected and polluted as to get people to all look, act, and think as Gingerbread Men and Women, meaning we will all be cut from the same cookie dough and that is a way of keeping orderly "herd mentality" and lining the pockets of those who believe differently and use the path as a means of lining us up one by one to be exploited. A way of turning us into MULES to carry the burdens of the elitist. And they say slavery was abolished. Shame on them, it appears to me that slavery now knows no race, no religion, no gender...etc. Slavery today is simply non discriminating.

Regardless of our economic decline and the growing number of homeless, there are those who continue to prosper off of the backs of the many.

Reminds me of Animal Story. Perhaps we should write our own Animal Story and tell of the pigs who continually take from the rest of the barn animals and take and take and take.

Oh sorry for the rant. One beautiful thing I rely on are wonderful warm people like you Jill who at the very least are aware and give serious thought to such pressing and important matters that are laid on a table in the background somewhere.

Much Love and Peace to you.....stay your loving self in your Jillism...you're such a beautiful soul.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/7/2008 4:59 PM (#6432 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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An intriguing quotation for me from Joseph Campbell, the great comparitive mythologist is this: "The great mystery of life is that it lives by killing; that is the mystery that the great religions of the world seek to resolve".

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Rose
Posted 6/7/2008 11:31 PM (#6441 - in reply to #6432)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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You know I don't understand how the great religions are really seeking to resolve this? Okay, maybe the Buddhist but Buddhism isn't really a religion. Of course, a Pastor I know disagrees with this and yet a Yogi told me that Buddhism is a way of life and you don't have to give up who or what you are to practice right living...

I too experience Buddhism as a way of life and not as a religion. If we say that right path living helps to alliviate the need to kill...then yes I would agree with this.

But when someone has an idealism and what's to force it on others at the expense of blood then how is that a means to stopping murder? Just some thoughts to contemplate.

Love and Peace thanks for the read Paul, made me ponder....still pondering....

Edited by Rose 6/7/2008 11:32 PM
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sunflower
Posted 6/8/2008 3:21 AM (#6443 - in reply to #6432)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?


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in my opinion,its is the many religions of the world,who are causing most of the problems,they fight against each other,therfore toataly not acting in a way that they have individualy taught others,there is also a lot od dark forces in religion sectors,and a great rivalry,more dark than light.If they all beiVE THE TRUE ONE.and it is the people in high places who are supposed to lead us,i.e.government,etc,tthat dark forces seem to linger also,its all about power for them,nothing to do with the person on the street.The most spiritual of people are the poor,who have nothing,but would give what they had to another in pain,This world,people,dark forces,is in need of divine intevention,everting is out of balance,i cannot see a way of correcting that balance,whilst there is more of the dark,than the light,so a miracle is needed,if we are to survive.The meek shall inherit the world,but is it too late?? Maybe this is all part of Gods plan,and the end is nigh.
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/8/2008 10:57 AM (#6445 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Yes, I agree with some of both sides. Religion for the most part teaches good morals. But then it twists it around into something unreachable. Then it teaches us that we are below God.

I cannot believe we are below God. I believe we are equal to God, as being part of God.

That would be like condeming my big toe to hell, but the rest of me can go to heaven. Do we honestly think God will send parts of himself to hell?

That is why I feel Hell, is just a frame of mind. Our own choice. And I have to agree, I really think the creator of that movie What Dreams May Come, had a pretty good idea. I really do think it's similar to that. We can get trapped in our own thoughts, then create an entire different reality than that of our neighbor, yet we are both of God.

I love talking about the possibilities, and I am not worried about my afterlife in the least. I already know beyond a shadow of doubt, I will still exist. I just disagree with the heaven or hell theory, as a place we are forced to go.  I truly believe we are the deciding factors of our own fate.  And we can always CHANGE our mind.








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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/8/2008 1:39 PM (#6452 - in reply to #6445)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Religions cannot fight; they are intellectual ideas, not even entities. People fight.

According to one schema, man was made, a little more than the angels, a little less than God. i am not sure I agree with that either. But it is relatively safe and loving to only disagree with oneself, I guess ! Though that too might depend on what one deos with the disagreement ..

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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/8/2008 1:41 PM (#6453 - in reply to #6452)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Fascntaing misprint on my part, I meant to say, 'does' and came up with the Spanish word for God, 'Deos' ... a pure accident, I assure you ...or are there any accidents ?!
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/8/2008 3:20 PM (#6470 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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That is so true.... people fight alright, and mostly about things they do not understand. Most of what we argue about is something that isn't even provable. So all we can do is hope that each person finds their own path, one that makes them truly happy.

I also think it takes more than one lifetime..... after all, we have eternity to play.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/8/2008 4:10 PM (#6473 - in reply to #6470)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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... quite so, Doc J ... and perhaps too, anyone can believe anything they want, and still eventually arrive at the[ir] truth, such is the marvel of the Divinity ...

Namaste
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/8/2008 4:12 PM (#6475 - in reply to #6473)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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...oops, tried to insert as an afterthought, ... yet All is also, a Required Course (thanks Christine!)
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/8/2008 4:22 PM (#6481 - in reply to #6475)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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... and although we can all believe what we want, it does help to be nice to each other (an afterthought)
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Rose
Posted 6/8/2008 6:23 PM (#6482 - in reply to #6445)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Doc, I believe that Heaven and Hell are the makings of our own minds. You know if you are on the wrong path and continue down it all your life here then I believe you will experience hell over and over because of set vibrations or electrical patterns in your soul.

But if you are striving for a right path and one of love and peace, then I believe you will take that peace and love with you where ever you may go or pass on too. That is what I experience to be the ultimate heaven. A feeling of warmth, comfort, love, and union. You are part of a whole and it meshes together so well.

Love and Peace to you Doc...
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/8/2008 8:22 PM (#6483 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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I love hearing everyone's feelings on this. It's refreshing to know that your thoughts are similar to others. I think hell is lack of love / light. Also denial of letting love in. Some people actually shut down, to avoid being hurt, but in the long run, they end up just hurting themselves. Then again, this protection mode happens for a purpose. Sometimes it's ok to rely solely on one's self.

Each life teaches new lessons, so we can become helpful to others. If we did not experience hard times, we would not ever be able to understand what it's like. Then again, some of us simply cannot deal with the same amount of drama that some can handle.

I think i will make this life purpose, for fun. I hate being so dang serious..... It's stuffy to me and I feel laughter heals all.

Enjoy the day~

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mruppert
Posted 6/9/2008 1:15 AM (#6489 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Hi all my favorite people:
     I AM Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Rosicrucian and perhaps a lot of other things....definitely Pagan, Druidian, Wiccan, Muslim, Zoroastrian in many facets of belief!
     I am reading a lot of criticism of hierachical structures of belief, but that is based on what "religion" means and NOT on what the 'religious experience" is.
      We "name" things but we are loathe to study what is the history and belief behind those names.
       When the "Whirling Dervishes" twirl around and reach their hands up  to touch the divine power, they do the same as me at my mass, just in a different  expression of faith. A different ceremonial milieue.
        My time grows shorter and shorter each day, so I think you might be interested in what I "see", and that is this:
     1) "Burning Nelly" was, indeed, a miracle....and it happend in a Roman Catholic church, but it caused me to leave at the most important part of the rigid belief. A "voice" told me to do it. Whose voice was it?
      2) Over my life, I have been in an inordinate amount of
 situations where I could have lost my life....yet, here I am! Perhaps a guardian angel looked out for me?
      3) When I had a minor but painfull problem, doctors did absolutely nothing for me, but a healer cured it straight away....
what was the cause of that?
       4) My cats live way beyond any normally expected life span, most go on to approach thirty human years. Why is that?

And, this makes me a bit sad, as my Sissy is adopted, and had lived 8 years before joining the family. She was partially blind when I got her, and got worse, but has improved in eyesight over time....however she is now losing weight, and she is young compared to Lucky and Poppy, who are well into old age.

For those of you who are squeamish, leave now and go to some other posts.     
    
My best friend, Inkspot, aka Inky, was thirty human years old. She slept on top of the tv set, and over time, became incontinent, and Isis and I brought her to a vet....and we told the story and gave him her medical records. And he said "your cat is dead, how she walks around and does things is beyond me...she has no kidney function and barely a heartbeat". I have to admit that she did smell really bad. BUT, she was going to the kitty litter and eating food and interacting with the other cats; and she could hop up onto the top of the tv, which she liked because it was warm.  I made the  decision to end Inky's life, and I think I did the right thing.
     My GirlySue died at 28 in front of the fireplace of this very place that I am in right now. But, she was a little eight month old kitten sitting in the middle of Lawyers Hill Road, and almost got runned over......so, over time, did she not have a good life? I didn't like to see what I saw....but I was not going to make her leave the place and things that she knew only to meet the inevitable.
     One day (I hope), I will be free to travel and not worry
about some feline inhabitants....but I know in my heart that that will never happen. I can't sleep properly unless I hear the purring.
      Ya know, you can beat a dog to near death, and the dog will still love you....as it is unconditional.....but cats truly love only those that truly love them, and they do not tolerate or accept anything less. Once given, you are locked forever in a spiritual bond that cannot be broken.
      I wish people could learn from cats, and find the deeper meaning of life and love; a dog's eye reflects adoration; a cat's eye reflects yourself..........my beloved Isis is long gone, but my cats are still here!

Peace and regards,
Marty, and those whom I spoke of......Luck, Popp, and Siss

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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/9/2008 7:16 AM (#6503 - in reply to #6489)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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From memory, so may need checking (but the dictionary in front of me doesn't do etymology), interesting that the derivation of the word, Hell, is I think from a Scandinavian word, 'hele', meaning to be shut off, or sealed in. Paradoxically, to be 'open' can be quite a painful experience; eg, we speak of being open, emotionally, though we also speak of a wound being 'open' ...
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/9/2008 11:27 AM (#6510 - in reply to #6418)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Marty, it sounds so wonderful to have such love for your cats. I will never know the feeling of that with a cat, due to such horrid allergies to them. I can only tolerate a dog, and I was extremely close to my beloved schmodawg, whom I just had to put down. I swear it was doomsday to have him put to sleep. I do feel we can love unconditionally. Easier said than done. Our human feelings get so hurt, so easily.....

PJ, i really liked that being open, does tend to leave us wide open for strike. Shutting down is a form of protection, but also a form of hell. It makes sense.
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Rose
Posted 6/9/2008 10:16 PM (#6520 - in reply to #6489)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Mruppert, I have the same experience with animals. yes many I've had have lived much longer than normal life expectancy, but I give them herbs, and use other healing techniques.

Perhaps they stay longer because we love them so....I've had friends who have experienced the same thing. A Vet diagnosed a friends dog and said he would die within the year but the dog lived several years past that because they added a blend of healing herbs to his diet daily.

Love and Peace to you Mruppert...
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Rose
Posted 6/9/2008 10:24 PM (#6521 - in reply to #6489)
Subject: RE: How could one lifetime be the deciding factor?



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Mruppert, what a beautiful heartfelt post.

Hope your furry friends remain at your side for many more loving years...

Peace and Love to you Mruppert...
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