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Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.
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kukla2555
Posted 5/30/2008 5:34 PM (#6205)
Subject: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Student

Posts: 35
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Hello to all!

As usual, I need your help, please!

I am 32 years old and I have been going to UMS for almost a year now and I love it. I have noticed that in the last 6 months my personality has changed dramatically and I am a much happier and spiritual person. I have learned many things studying spirituality including how to forgive the most unforgivable acts. However, I still struggle with it.

Here is my dilema or issue:

My father is emotionally and verbally abusive

I got into a fight with my father. Fights with my dad are not normal fights.. they are brutal and cruel. He yelled at me to vaccuum (never asks) always yells because he assumes I should always know what he's thinking and do it before he tells me to.

What he said pretty much comes down to him thinking and feeling I am Incompetant to do anything and then, the vaccuum broke and well there just proves my incompenants right? To him it did. He then screams about how he was never this inconsiderate to his parents.. ok so now i'm inconsiderate because I can't read his mind and didn't vaccuum before he told me to.. you following?

I obviously, live at home. I moved back a few years ago, kinda in a last minute panic. My father had begged me to move back home several times because he was sick.. cough cough.. (sick in the head and amazingly recovered after I moved back).

I refused until my roommate informed me the day of Christmas our lease was up in a week and SHE was moving to Europe. I should add that my wonderful father is also extremely self centered, stubborn and has a dictionary/thesauras/encyclopia of his own in his head. You cannot go against what is in his head or you are WRONG!!!!!

He is very wealthy so he 'gets away' with his bad behavior by almost everyone because most people fear him. When I was younger I over heard him tell his friends that fear is good to set into your children so they don't misbehave... My sister and I were extremely well behaved children. Never drank or did drugs, stayed out passed curfew.. etc. Model children to most parents except my father! WE can never do anything right. I should also tell you that my mother died when I was 15 and my sister was 19.

Obviously, things got much worse after she passed away and I blame my father for her death. And he had a girlfriend at our house that Friday night after mom died. Mom died on her 6th heart attack. My sister was diagnosed with this condition days ago and we are both currently in a huge fight with my dad. He says and does unforgivable things and 3 years ago had me arrested for tresspassing in the only house I have ever lived in my whole life. Soley because he needed to have control over me and couldn't control me, I of course moved out and stayed gone for a year and a half.

While I was gone, I discovered a mantra that I repeated until it made me cry. "I forgive you for not being who I would want you to be, I forgive you and set you free." That's How I forgave him and was able to move back. Living back home for the first year was fine.. No problems, but he's back to his old ways and I just hide or try to stay away from him.

He's very mean and abusive with his words and he treats his girlfriend and us two daughters the same way. He recently hurt his foot and is now on crutches.. he's such a baby that he bought himself a wheelchair.. simply because he feels he'll get more pity that way.. He's constantly looking for pity and attention. His mother was the same way and he'll be the first one to tell you he couldn't stand her either. Unfortunately the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I don't fall for his childish games and since we really aren't on speaking terms, I'm purposely not home and he's pissed because he thinks I should be at home waiting on him hand and foot and most of all making him "tea."

My sister and I are to the point of cutting off all ties with him, but financially I have no way of leaving home any time soon. I meditate on it to no avail.. so now I meditate on asking how to meditate effectively to get the response or action to be taken for it to really happen. My sister is obviously very sick now but she doesn't want to keep her son from his Papa. My father at this point is ignoring both of us in the hopes that we'll need him or something from him and we'll call him then.. Unfortunately, I secretly hope for an unlimited supply of his ignoring me and so does my sister.

How do you forgive again the same man for doing the same thing to us over and over again and never apologizing or caring about what we are going thru. He's only been concerned with him and his heart.

I could give you a list of things that he's done that have hurt me but I don't want to relive the pain.. I'll give you one example.. i told you that he is a very wealthy man... and for the last two years I have been asking on every holiday for new tires and for my shower head to be put in my shower... My tires would go flat every 2 weeks without exeggeration and he FOUND 4 used tires and made me put them on. A month ago I had a complete NO FIXING IT flat tire to find that my RIM had THREE cracks! I told my father there was something wrong with my rim/tires but he just said it's fine its fine... never bothered with it.. To me that is a safety issue and he could have cared less.. There's more.. that's just one example

I pray for salvation, I pray and meditate for an "emotionally stable" place for me to live, but i'm still here. I pray and meditate for money and little trinkletts sometimes come.. now If I ask for love I'll get bombarded with men!

Please tell me the Spiritual way of forgiving or dealing with this man. A good friend of the family says I have to talk to him and go up to him, be the adult in other words. He's obviously the child and always has been.

I know if I go home and leave the communication door open for him he will lash out on me and I physically and mentally cannot handle it, so i OVER self medicate to fall asleep to avoid feeling anything.. I know it's wrong/bad.. etc. but if you knew you had to walk into a mind field everyday knowing(feeling like) your gonna die( or want to), with no way to avoid it... how would you go about it?

What is the spiritual method of dealing with this man?

I desperately need help. I'm in financial ruins I don't have a clue on how to get out of this mess. My friends and family say that he is keeping my sister and I both from moving forward. That he's holding us back.. my sister doesn't live at home but she still feels trapped. And I obviosly, hold a ton of resentment that I'm not sure how to let go of while still living there.

Please help. I'm desperate.

Thank you for reading

Love and light

Judy

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Louise
Posted 5/30/2008 5:57 PM (#6207 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



UMS Student

Posts: 124
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Location: New Zealand
Hey Judy, I'm here, I hear you, I'm with you.

Take a deep breath now - actually take it - take it in, feel your chest raise, and breath out long and deep, let it go, let it all go. Let it go as the drama that you can see that it is. The drama cannot hurt you. You cannot be abandoned, you have not been abandoned. As soon as you remind yourself, that which you know to be true, you will choose to see fear as something that is an illusion which will keep you from who you really are...Yet - we cannot know what something is, until we know what it is not - and therefore as you seek spiritual enlightenment, the univese will create a context for you to see what it is not - and this is our human condition. So your situation may feel like it has you captive, yet it has the power to see you free

I'm reviewing a modernised version of the Bible - this is the page open right now which is quite fitting:

You, Lord, are my shepherd. I will never be in need
You let me rest in fields of green grass
You lead me to streams of peaceful water
and you refresh my life

You are true to my name
and you lead me along the right paths
I may walk through valleys as dark as death
but I won't be afraid
You are with me
and your shepherd's rod makes me feel safe

You treat me to a feast while my enemies watch
you honour me as your guest
and you fill my cup until it overflows
Your kindness and love will always be with me
each day of my life
and I will live forever in your house, Lord

I'm not sure that answered your question but it felt right to say.
Much Love to you Judy,
Louise
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instinctual
Posted 5/30/2008 7:42 PM (#6210 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

Posts: 773
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Location: Arizona
Greetings Judy-

I have forwarded you a private message. Blessings and Love to you...

Lori
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kukla2555
Posted 5/31/2008 2:13 PM (#6236 - in reply to #6207)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Student

Posts: 35
25
Thank you. I don't know if it answers my question but it helps me on how I should view my situation at least in a different light.

Thanks again.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/31/2008 4:49 PM (#6237 - in reply to #6236)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
Dear K

I have logged on tonight, with the intention of only opening and responding to, one message. And yours was the one that, by chance, I opened. Just a concern first, are you fully aware that this is an open site? Does the one with whom you are concerned have access to the internet, or do others close to you? Next, have you yet taken the UMS course, Radical Forgiveness ? There, in the light of that teaching, nothing has happened. Moving down a line, as a shift into differnet consciousness ...

You are only here for You. Whatever might happen as a by-product of You being here is grace; but it is a bonus. Your responsibility .. response-ability, to You, and Your Eternal Self, your gift to You, is your happiness. Your love. Others equally, are in that same position, vis a vis themselves. Just take a moment to reflect on that last sentence.

Then, let go, allow yourself to love yourself, and in that, open the gates for others to find themselves also.

Love, blessings, and in every cognizance of how hard this must be for you,

Paul
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/1/2008 8:27 PM (#6269 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1671
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Location: NE Ohio
Hello Judy,

I am so sorry that you have to deal with this. But, you do not really have to. You can make up your mind that you do not, and get out of there. You do not deserve this. However, you can also express how you feel. Tell him you are going to move out again, then explain why. Abuse is not a good thing either, and mental abuse as well as emotional abuse is very wrong. Explain that you do not have to take it, and simply leave.

Paul also brings up a VERY valid reminder: most people who are very mean and hurtful, are hurting inside. They show to others how they truly feel inside. How bitter and hurt your father must feel to be so hurtful to others. Forgive him and know, it's NOT you that he is talking about, it's himself! You can also walk away when he is yelling at you. Explain to him that if he cannot treat you as an equal, As Jean Piaget came up with TWO stages of moral development. One where the kid feels unequal to their parents, and then one where the child feels equal. At age 32, you should be in the stage two of this development, making you an equal. If he cannot respect that you 'are' now an equal, then you can leave him to deal with his own misery with out your presence. But you do not have to take this at all. It's a choice you make.

Now, if you choose to leave, you do not have the financial support, which is a big deal, especially now, when everyone seems to be down in income. We are very close to a second depression. Nobody would put you down for staying, but can you deal with that?

We cannot give you the answer here, just share information and give opinions. I hope that some opinions do help you very much!

I send you HUGS and healing energy to find forgiveness, and strength to hold your head up, as an equal.

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mruppert
Posted 6/1/2008 10:33 PM (#6273 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hello Kukla.....is your sister named Fran????? (Awww....that is something only I would understand.)

I am many years removed, but so "with" you in many respects.
My Dad was not rich; he was purposely poor. But, the same in tone and temperament, and worse as he was physically violent. I have talked about him from time to time in other forums.
I left home to go to college, barely 17. I went home during a break, and seeing more of the same, said some fateful words.....To which my dad told me to leave and don't come back. And, I never did go back. You'd be surprised what a 17 year old kid can do, if he has to. College paid for by me! Work/Study and another job....an apartment off campus....the whole nine yards!
Talk to my Mom and sisters, and see them every now and then. I  talked to him once more, on the phone, when he was dying of cancer, and he started in again....so I hung up!
I have always hated him, never forgiven him, and wanted some sort of justice, i.e, revenge upon him.
BUT, I have had some recent "advice" from another on this website. And the message is quite clear. It has been many years and I have not been able to "let it go". It is high time that I do!
I only know what you relate here, but based on that, if I were you, I would grab Sis and go.....there must be somewhere safe. If not, you two go it alone....but without fear, as you are not gonna starve or die on the street. Your resourcefulness won't let that happen. You will, indeed, survive and have a better life.
The problem is you can't look back, ever....you will only torment yourself by doing so, as I have found.
Actually, you have helped me more than I have tried to help you, as I see now, that it was over and done with a long time ago.....I am just holding on to something which is meaningless and not worth the time; a certainly beneath the dignity of all involved.

I wish you the best,
Peace,
Marty and my catgirls batgirls, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and Sissy
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sunflower
Posted 6/2/2008 2:54 AM (#6276 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Elite Veteran

Posts: 750
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Dear Kukla,my heart goes out to you,and i know what it is like being in an abusive relationship,mental abuse,to me,is far more damaging than physical,as physical heals,mental,scars.You should not expand anymore of your precious energy thinking of ways to forgive this man,it is you that needs attention,and love,you have to love yourself,and treat youself with a loving kindness,hug yourself,if you know what i mean.He is ruling ,and controlling you by fear,and his own insecurities,i feel he was treated similarly when he was young,and never met his parents standards,but has not learned from this.He is passing it on to you and your sister,he may have a mental hold on you,but not a physical one.You can be free,by freeing yourself,leave,never go back,your success and happiness will be your reward,and his loss.His money means nothing,its immaterial,its all he has to feel power,as that is what he wants,don,t let it be,money does not bring happiness,it comes from within,your father is void of this,it is up to him,his responsibility to either change,or be the same,in total misery.His life,is not your life,don,t let him live through you,and your energies,which he is draining from you.You have only you to be responsible for,your happiness of mind,body spirit soul,and your own lifepath to follow.I personaly don,t feel you have to confront him,just yet anyway,cut the strings that bind you,and heal yourself,through love,inner peace,and ask the angels of healing and love to help you,you have your own guardian angel,with you always,you wil be guided,go forward,and listen to your thoughts and intuition.I surround you with a loving light,and a positiveity that when that first step is taken to free yourself,things will change for the good,and a path will be cleared for you.Take care my friend,you are in my thoughts,with love and kindness,big hugs,iris xxxxx
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Rose
Posted 6/2/2008 6:42 AM (#6278 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



Student

Posts: 339
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Location: No I'm not impersonating a cat! I'm a laughing Owl
I'm going to pray for you and your family.

Love and Peace to you. It will get better.

"This too will pass".
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Aquarius
Posted 6/2/2008 9:30 AM (#6281 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: Karma in Families



UMS Guest

Posts: 1932
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Location: United Kingdom

KARMA IN FAMILIES

Life hardly ever is a bed of roses for any one of us and until we find at least a degree of understanding of its true purpose, this world frequently seems meaningless and cruel, dark and threatening. For unawakened souls the pain of life’s sorrows, limitations and hardships is accentuated by sneaking feelings that an impersonal and unloving providence permits and inflicts them, without purpose, rhyme or reason. As long as we are unaware of the Universal laws that rule all life, including ours on the earthly plane, our suffering is likely to be intense. A certain amount of relief comes straight away when one finds out about the Divine law of Karma and that because of this law a justice of a very special kind is at work in every life. Until human souls have found a measure of awareness of their own true nature and why they are in this earthly existence, the Divine justice is so perfect and fair that its extent is almost impossible to grasp.

How good it is that humankind is finally moving onto different levels of consciousness and that we are finding a fresh understanding of ever more spiritual concepts. When such knowledge stops being merely of the head and instead sinks into the deeper levels of one’s consciousness, one realises the necessity of applying one’s knowledge to real life situations. Surprisingly enough one then realises that it no longer takes superhuman efforts to find compassion and forgiveness for our own suffering, as well as that of anyone who ever hurt and wounded us in the past. Forgiveness is essential because its gets the healing process going and brings ever more peace to our soul. Knowing that everything that is in our life is and always was only there because it is intended to teach us something, helps us to let go of the notion that there is such a thing as good or bad fortune. Whether we like it or not, one way or another, we ourselves once set the wheels in motion for everything that our life now presents to us. Accepting this makes finding forgiveness surprisingly easy.

Family situations are particularly fraught and the saying: ‘You cannot choose your family, but you can choose your friends,’ is only true up to a point; more of this theme later. We are told by the wise ones from the world of spirit that there is more Karma in families than in any other aspect of life. Look at your own life and that of the families around you and you will – like me – have no difficulties accepting that this is undoubtedly so. The way I see it, far too much suffering is constantly created in our world through family life – mine is no exception.

To my mind this is due to the lack of understanding of the role we truly have to play towards each other, it seems to me a worthwhile exercise to examine this more closely.  The living together of people in the close proximity of families, no matter how splendid our surroundings may be, puts enormous strain on everybody’s inner resources. Invasions of each other’s psychic spaces are constantly taking place within all families. Grating on each other’s nerves is probably inevitable; even in the most loving relationships sooner or later this starts to show. Statistics of divorce figures and people living on their own these days prove the point.

The work that is required from everyone to improve this situation can only be done in our earthly existence. Once we have been released from its limitations and are back in the world of spirit, such strains no longer exist and therefore cannot be worked on. This realisation highlights the great importance of making every effort to resolve and heal our troublesome relationships in the here and now. Undoubtedly, the arising conflicts and tensions in them lead to much soul growth for all concerned.

 This clearly has been the intention behind this particular challenge in the past, but now that we are reaching spiritual maturity the tools are put into everybody’s own hands for learning to rise above such situations and for doing better. Alas, without discovering what is at stake here, nobody has much of a chance of making any progress. For as long as any warring parties remain unaware of what is expected from them, the people involved are likely to repeat the difficult behaviour patterns, which they brought with them as part of their soul memories from previous lifetimes. Thus they can do nothing to continue to endlessly create ever more difficult Karmic situations that will have to be redeemed and resolved, if not during their present lifetime then in one of their future ones.

As long as at least one participating soul wakes up, all involved remain trapped on the great wheel of life. Tied to it and each other, unwittingly creating ever more chains of Karma is the kind of yoke we have all carried with us, ever since we entered into our first relationship with someone. Setting each other free from this is sure to be done more successfully and rapidly when both parties in thorny relationships wake up from their spiritual slumbers. For all who are willing to work on this formidable task, their present lifetime will offer many opportunities for transforming their difficult connections into bonds of friendship and mutual respect.

Let us now return for a moment to the theme of choosing one’s family, briefly touched upon earlier. In case someone is now asking: ‘How can this be?’ a few words of explanation may not come amiss. Each time before we enter into yet another lifetime, working together with the wise ones in charge of us, we do indeed choose our family. This not only creates possibilities for balancing the scales of justice, but also for resolving any issues that were left unattended to in other lifetimes. Without the necessary awareness there is little chance of achieving this goal. The key to unlock this challenge, as always, is the understanding of what is now at stake, because we can then consciously get to work on all our problematic relationships. And when we do, there will finally come the moment when the people involved can set each other free. As everything in the whole of Creation always has to balance, we do not only bring our difficult relationships with us but also some good and helpful ones, which can be built upon and further strengthened.

The poet W.H. Auden, when asked why he was migrating from the United Kingdom to the United States, said: ‘I love my family, but I don’t want to live with them!’ Now, there is honesty for you and if we were all equally truthful with ourselves, many would express the same feelings. Not to jump to conclusions though, let us not assume that they are hypocrites. Maybe they are the wise ones, especially if they are consciously and patiently putting up with the lessons their difficult relationships can teach them. With sufficient awareness, ever more of us will be able to grasp the opportunities that are now on offer to help us resolve all our Karmic ties with each other.

Recommended Reading: ‘Healing Prayer for Children and Parents’ in the ‘Words & Prayers for Comfort & Healing’ section

From ‘The Random Jottings of a Stargazer’ Volume Two – Part A ‘Reflections on the Value of War and Peace.

With Love and Light,
Aquarius

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mruppert
Posted 6/2/2008 9:54 PM (#6295 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hi all:
     First, Kukla.....Sun-der-land and I agree on something....and that should tell YOU something! You have to leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     My lot was to be humiliated constantly and told I was ugly and stupid. The physical abuse was minor and nothing I couldn't handle. My sisters were treated a lot more gently. It was my dad's anger and violence towards me mum...I mean my mom (I talk to too many Brits all day long), that was the icing on the cake. He cut my Mom's arm with a knife as he was carving a pork roast....he didn't do it as a mortally inflicted wound, he did it out of anger and stupidity (with the intention of hitting her with the broad part of the blade) and no control over what he was doing. So, I walked my Mom to the emergency room at Greenpoint Hospital, an 11 yo kid, and had to sit and wait while she got 9 stitches in her arm. My Dad couldn't even; didn't have the courage and guts; to take her there. My sisters were crying and I just got up and told my Mom that we would go to the emergency room. I didn't eat pork roast for a very long time, but I now enjoy it every now and then, as I am not big on meat anymore, but still have it if the mood strikes.
     I took the test for MENSA when I was 14, and became a member. I thought that my dad might think me smart, but it only made matters worse. Now, I was dumber than ever before. Because I was smart, I was dumb.
     I never felt more alive than the day that I left to go to college. I was finally out of that hellhole of a family..or non family.
     When I went home during a break in my first semester, (excuse me if I become a bit graphic) he was doing the same s*&t again. Hence, our first and final confrontation.....and I had never confronted him before, I was afraid of him before, but I wasn't THAT particular evening. He was yelling at my Mom and made her cry, as she had cried sooo many times before, and he slapped some part of her body. And I told him...and I remember this as if it were yesterday, "IF YOU EVER HIT  HER AGAIN, I WILL KILL YOU!"
      It was at that point that I was invited to leave and not come back, though I was given the grace of a nights sleep, and I said "f*&k you" and was out of the apartment within an hour. Back to Washington, DC on an AMTRAK train. Just a kid, just 17 years old.
      I had several practical points but reliving typed words dulls what those points are. So, go back to Sundial's post and read it.....she said much of what I wanted to say.
      My only advice is, have no regrets about what you WILL do. If you entertain them for a moment, you will find yourself, like me, having regrets and second thoughts over something which is plainly and truly, not worth it!

     Second, Sundrops, do you now see what I mean when I speak of psychic vampyres? What does Mr. Kukla do except feed off the love of others until he bleeds them dry? Until there is nothing more to give? Until he has consumed their being? And when he has taken everything he can take, he still wants MORE!

     Third, hello to you Aquavelva, my heart stuttered when I saw the big print. In my saga related above, only you know what I would have ultimately done, in the grand confrontation.
Quasi im gegenteil, fraulein Aquarius! In einer schlimmen verfassung gewesen, gespannt, mit unsicheren handen...going back to English.....because I find I remember less and less each day......nice to read your words, as I do all the time in rays of Wisdom!

Peace Profound,
Marty and KittyKatz, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SissyGirl....hmmm, she is sick
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sunflower
Posted 6/3/2008 7:24 PM (#6344 - in reply to #6295)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Elite Veteran

Posts: 750
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hello mr m,i do understand what you have been through,as i have had similar situations in my life,and its only when you have walked in others footsteps,we can connect with their soul suferring.What!!! you and i never agree,i would say,we may speak in diferent tongues,but we understand the same language.I admire what you have achieved,and i mean this with honest sincerity.I beleive kukla will succeed far above what she beleives now,and more,sorry kukla,not ignoring you,i,m still sending out love to you,you see,when i see another soul suffer at the hands of others greed and selfishness,for their own gain,it makes me mad,and sad,you are just fueling his ego,keeping him alive,but killing you,metaphoricaly speaking,so i look forward greatly,to hear very soon,of your great release,and ultimate happiness,i know this will be so.I also,like aquarius,beleive that we choose our family before we come to this earthplane,to learn lessons,that we never had the chance to finish in the last life.good luck,love to you,iris xxx
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aceraven
Posted 6/3/2008 11:22 PM (#6345 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

Posts: 28
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Judy my dear,
Aceraven hear...just want to let you know it sounds like the old "light side vs dark side" ploy that so many of us humans take on. You my dear are operating on the light side & value peace & such. Now Poppa is on the dark side and he is doing a wonderful job of dark side tactics. Don't worry about Dad thinking like you cause he can't. You have the true power of love & he uses the power of fear. Love him & forgive him because you can. He will never be able to feel the love you want him to because he can't. Welcome to the side of light, much greatness awaits you. Poor Pops is on his way out, forgive him my dear because his days are numbered along with all the others who operate like him. Work on your love & forgiveness & claim your true power. You can feel compassion, he can not. Don't expect him to feel like you can. Love him just like he is and work on the really important things like metaphysics. You are surrounded by good people here, let go of fear & embrace love.
your traveling bud, aceraven
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John W. Kelly
Posted 6/3/2008 11:53 PM (#6346 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Regular

Posts: 59
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Location: Lake Stevens, Wa.
Wow! I am very thankful to have the parents I do. I can't recall them even yelling at each other.
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sunflower
Posted 6/4/2008 1:26 AM (#6347 - in reply to #6346)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Elite Veteran

Posts: 750
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dear mr kelly,you are indeed fortunate to have had good parents,therefore it must be hard to imagine someone in kuklas position,in fact across the globe,there are thousand of children being abused,even as we speak.That is why i think it important to give out love,especialy to those brave,and desperate enough to call out for help.Ihave noticed your postings from time to time,and see that you do pop in,and say the few words,you may be a shy person,forgive me if this is so,but with your message of thanks for your parents,i would have sincerely hoped,you could maybe have added a touch of warmth towards kukla,maybe just a note to say she is in your thoughts,as i say,i am pleased you were so fortunate,this post showed you another side,an arm outsretched,a warm word,etc,goes a long way in helping to heal those in pain,as we forget sometimes how forunate we are,and can afford to help otheres less so,in times of great suferrinng,we need to know there is someone who cares.love to you my friend.x
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John W. Kelly
Posted 6/4/2008 9:58 AM (#6358 - in reply to #6347)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Regular

Posts: 59
2525
Location: Lake Stevens, Wa.
sunflower - 6/4/2008 1:26 AM ...you do pop in,and say the few words...

I'm a firm believer in Ockham's razor!
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sunflower
Posted 6/4/2008 10:43 AM (#6359 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Elite Veteran

Posts: 750
5001001002525
mmm.i confess my ignorance,and don,t know what ockhams razor is,i will look it up,maybe sometimes a cut is too deep,fewer words said the better? whatever,it means,i still stick to my beleif,i am not being aggressive here you know,and i,m not ashamed of being unable to understand the above,to me love is all,the caring and sharing,the giving and taking,ok,i,m off to find out,may come back...mr kelly.

love and light to you lukla xxx
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aceraven
Posted 6/4/2008 11:52 AM (#6360 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

Posts: 28
25
Hey Good one,
Mr Kelly, I had to cheat & google it..."All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." Is this it?
And with the parent thing, Dad was the controlling one but Mom taught me love...Kukla2555, I hope things are getting better for you, I spent most my life trying to get Dad to be nice, but I learn to love him as he is. Unconditional Love can be very hard to do, so start with yourself. Love yourself Unconditionally & work from there.........keep on truck'n y'all, aceraven
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sunflower
Posted 6/5/2008 4:32 AM (#6372 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Elite Veteran

Posts: 750
5001001002525
well kelly mr,i did,against my better judegment look up okhams,s razor,i got bored after a short while,as there were so many pages... big words scrabble my brain,don,t understand half of them,i,m not very academic you see,but does that make me any less worthy of the brilliance of the academic person,who uses long words and phrases,that aren,t ,to me,necessary on a spiritual level.So,gosh iris,never start a sentence with so,it means basicaly,fewer words spoken,mean more,sometimes this is the case,in others,such as this,the person in pain needs to connect with others tying to help,and to truly connect the person giving advise etc,needs to explain they have been through similar,therefore,can experience,feel,their pain and anguish.Anyway,you may have said fewer words,and incidentaly,this is not a competition on who can say the most words,the few words you spoke,were of no help to kukla,as you were only saying how fortunate YOU were,so to me they were wasted words,for this situation,as you didn,t give out any love,kind thoutht etc,which was greatly needed.All i can say is put that in your metaphorical pipe,and smoke it.mmmm,i,m allowing you to get to me,so in as few words as i can manage,bye kelly.
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Chotuni
Posted 6/5/2008 5:22 AM (#6374 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Regular

Posts: 97
252525
Location: Saddlebrook,New Jersey
I liked Ockram's razor so much I nearly bought the company!
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aceraven
Posted 6/5/2008 12:14 PM (#6380 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

Posts: 28
25
Hey Chotuni,
I'll buy stock if you do buy it....peace out
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/5/2008 1:47 PM (#6383 - in reply to #6372)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
Part of community membership surely, is that each person's contribution has validity from their perspective. The whole point of sharing perspectives is to discover the truth that might, or might not be, held and discovered in common. If a member asks for help or assistance, we each might offer or contribute what might or might not help take that person further. I think casting negative ascriptions around furthers no-one. The focus here i had thought, was the positive good that focusing on the good, the truth and the light, permits the unfoldment of. Love and light to you Kukla, whatever decision(s) you can accommodate within your destiny and life choices. It is not an easy thing to say, or do; but try to choose the best for yourself, as your life is Yours.

Blessings
Paul
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aceraven
Posted 6/6/2008 12:36 AM (#6395 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

Posts: 28
25
Hi Paul Joseph,
You make a very good point. And after reading some of your post, I would like to find time to read more. I gotta take leave for awhile but am looking forward to further post. May this school be blessed in its valued work and until we post again, your traveling bud, aceraven
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/6/2008 4:03 AM (#6399 - in reply to #6395)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
Dear Aceraven .. you might have been reading my mind; I have been contemplating withdrawing for a while; but your warm words make me reconsider .. though I will be away for a couple of weeks holiday after the weekend anyway ... will review my thinking when i get back. Best to you too !!
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Chotuni
Posted 6/6/2008 10:12 AM (#6404 - in reply to #6399)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Regular

Posts: 97
252525
Location: Saddlebrook,New Jersey
P.J., I apologise to kukla for the last post, I am still considering her question and what would be my response to it. meanwhile to you can I say, forget ums, cogitate, keep off-lne,have your two weeks away free from mental distraction and come back refreshed and full of vigor, enjoy your holiday as much as I enjoyed my recent trip, look forward to the next two weeks.
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