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SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS
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Rose
Posted 5/24/2008 11:06 AM (#5710)
Subject: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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I'm currently listening to the congressional meeting dealing with the lack of services for our military and ex-military members. Currently in America the suicide rate of Veterans are over 6500 a year and that equates to 18 suicides a day. These numbers are staggering. They were accurately recorded and confirmed by Dr. Katz, hope I spelled the last name correctly, earlier Katz denied these numbers but now confirms that the numbers are indeed accurate. Men are committing suicide at a higher rate that women VETERANS.

The belief is that there are higher numbers than those verified. Because these numbers are only coming from those reported to the VA. But there are many out there who don't seek help through the VA and commit suicide. I am absolutely floored by these numbers. The Rand Corp. published a book called the "Invisible Wounds of War" and according to what I've heard over the airways it deals with this topic in more detail. There's no help for many of them that need psychological help and I can only say this in regard to this topic, "people who are suffering like this and have no one reaching out to them, need spiritual leaders reaching in and touching them. God, needs to hear our prayers for these individuals." Another staggering number is that 1/3 of our homeless are Veterans. What I find most disturbing is that there's so much to go around, and we just can't seem to efficiently share our resources with our own countrymen and women.

Well would love to hear your thoughts out there.......and your spiritual suggestions, guidance, input, share all of it.

Love and Peace to all of you........
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instinctual
Posted 5/25/2008 12:32 AM (#5716 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Oh, Rose, what a sickening statistic. And it seems that these brave men and women have served their country well, afforded us our freedoms, and they have become just that, a statistic.

This just makes no sense. Perhaps immediate and intense psychological and spiritual counseling before they even hit home soil should be done ( not sure if it is being done, but if it is, it's not good enough )- For example, if they are in the Middle East, I think they automatically fly to the air force base in Germany ( the name of the base escapes me ). My neighbor's son in law is home from Iraq on a 60 day leave. He left the US as a whole person. Now he is fearful of cars, untrusting of anyone, ducks because he thinks he sees thinks "overhead". What they must endure and witness, it can bring tears to my eyes- then to expect them to return and fully assimilate as if they went off to an office job for the day. It's garbage. And they do need our help and our prayers. I would say to at least touch as many of them as we can in as many ways as possible. If it is a dollar, a ride, a hug, a simple and heart felt thank you, especially this weekend, hang a flag on your front door if a veteran happens to live near you. Of course, no more war would equate to no more veterans OF war, but I have a sense we have a way to go with that. Meanwhile, all we can do is show our dismay at the system, and our support to these brave souls.
Thank you for posting this, Pretty Rose..
Love,
Lori
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/25/2008 4:48 AM (#5732 - in reply to #5716)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Agree very much with these senitments. Many homeless people in UK are ex-servicemen and women. But getting funding to help develop services is hard (smething I am involved with). Perhaps society refuses to want to see the results of our dependencies ... and want to maintain our illusions of safe existences ... as a webbased international offering, presumably UMS might be able to offer some kind of supports too as i susepct it is tryng to.

Blessings All
Paul
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instinctual
Posted 5/25/2008 11:55 AM (#5742 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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Glad to know you are involved, I know that you are a great asset to those less fortunate-to be their voice. I think I understand what you are saying-
Ignorance is Bliss.

Let's not think about it, it's root causes or the consequences, because if we don't think about it, it will all go away.

Groan

Love to all
me
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/25/2008 1:53 PM (#5753 - in reply to #5742)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
... quite so .. and it is all our fault/responsibility/response-ability too !!

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instinctual
Posted 5/25/2008 11:40 PM (#5804 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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It really is, you know? Because I Am, therefore We are.

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mruppert
Posted 5/26/2008 3:37 AM (#5816 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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When you shoot anything that moves, because you are afraid of dying, you might sometimes wind up a hero...but oftentimes you find yourself a victim.
I do not kill anything, not even the occassional creepy crawly in the bathroom at night.
We must learn that war is about killing, and not a tv show.....that you do, indeed, shoot men, women, children, doctors, priests, oxen, and anything else that moves.
Rosepetal, the total obscenity that I saw, is not what we did, but the "tv show" of Shock and Thunder...or whatever it was called when the Americans bombed Baghdad.
What an inane travesty of war that was..........and how the American people are so fooled by it....you think not? Then tell me why we bring our own soldiers home and put them on trial for mistreating those who might just as well killed them.
     In closing to any and all that may read this.....War's face is ugly and you must bear the uglyness  if you wish to wage it! The object is to kill "them" and that means all of "them".....if you can't do it and live with what you did..then you have NO BUSINESS doing it in the first place.
      Over many years, I have learned that there is a better way, and so, Roseythorneybush, I say bring the boys and girls back home NOW....IMMEDIATELY...and get a goddamn government in place that has the best and brightest crafters of diplomacy to do what they are supposed to do..in a civilized society!

Peace N' PEACE,
Marty and Territorial Cats, the Luck, the Popp., and the SisssyGirl
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NothingEverything
Posted 5/26/2008 3:54 AM (#5817 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



UMS Student

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Location: Hirosaki, Japan
Its true.
War is the result of humanity absolutely failing.
No atrocity exist that is more terrible than the act of war.
Any country, any at all, that engages in such in act is absolutely hideous.
On a smaller scale, people volunteer for the service to their country for various reasons, rarely to support said country..
And people don't die for their country, they die for the others they fight with, their brothers and sisters in arms.
People think they are prepared for close quarters combat, because of how the media has portrayed it, that
is all part of the scheme, warfare is "cool" to the younger crowd, who is the target crowd.
You get to use state of the art gear, go to foreign places, learn something dangerous and engage a bad guy, and be a hero!
Spiritually it is devastating, and only a very rare breed is truly ready for it, they usually make up our special forces and
security contractors, and they very much love their "job" and the idea of their job.
War really displaces ones perception of humanity and society.
This is only my opinion and worth little.
But the honor, resolve, and sacrifices of our service members and their families is very great.




Edited by NothingEverything 5/26/2008 3:57 AM
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instinctual
Posted 5/26/2008 5:16 AM (#5827 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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NE, said beautifully. You are active military, is that right? Thank you for all you do and for your sacrifice. You are all remembered. And appreciated. And I have been meaning to ask you, (off subject )- did you visit the Reiki master that you were referring to a while back?

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NothingEverything
Posted 5/26/2008 5:18 AM (#5828 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



UMS Student

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Haha, not yet, I have it planned for June!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/26/2008 8:26 AM (#5836 - in reply to #5816)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
Complexity upon complexity. I think NE put it very well. Some situations and times seem to require resolve, others, withdrawel. I am indebted to those who fought and died in the Second World War, for example, in the confict against Nazism. Every year in the UK on the 11th Novemver at 11 am (the 11th hour of the eleventh day), there is a two minute silence for those who have given their lives in war. The following is read, the Kohima epitaph:

" They shall not grow old as we who remain grow old
Age shall not weary them, nor years condemn
At the going down of the sun and at its rising, we will remember them.

And from Kohima they say, 'when you get home
tell them: we gave our tomorrows for their yesterdays' "

It is incredibly moving. There are some ex-servicemen at the Pond where I swim. Each year they blow the Last Post on the bugle; and the last two years i have been given the honour of reciting the Kohima epitaph on their behalf. A deep honour indeed

Blessings
Paul


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Rose
Posted 5/26/2008 12:04 PM (#5847 - in reply to #5716)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Thanks for the reply instinctual, it would help that we make people here aware of just how bad the affects of war really are on people who participate in the armed forces. It appears that the VA tries to make lite of a very serious situation. Cover up of the truth is not the answer here.

Love and prayers to you and yours instinctual...
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Rose
Posted 5/26/2008 12:08 PM (#5848 - in reply to #5732)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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So what we're seeing here in America is the same in England. Servicemen and women make a large count amongst our homeless.

What I find even more disturbing is the number of boarded up homes laying empty all over this country that were financed by the VA. I can't imagine that some sort of program couldn't be developed to put these homeless Vets in homes and have them as caretakers until the house sales. I saw blocks of homes like these that were vacant for more than two years here in the states.

Makes absolutely no sense.
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Rose
Posted 5/26/2008 1:28 PM (#5849 - in reply to #5816)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Mruppert, you wrote, "Then tell me why we bring our own soldiers home and put them on trial for mistreating those who might just as well killed them. "

Everytime I hear or see something like this going on I stand in disbelief.....I think to myself, "they would take the very men and women they give a license to for WAR and then say, "oh we are going to get you for not playing war by the guidelines????"

Some of us may be able to think back to a situation in our own lives that was so frightening, and it takes all you have just to respond out of fight or flight. The last thing you do is pull out the rule book and say, "okay, what's the best way to handle this, am I within the guidelines here, and I have about an 1/8th of a second to make this decision before I die...oops time was up just processing that thought process and I'm probably already on my way to the pearly gates.

Makes absolutely no sense at all. As if these men and women don't have enough to deal with. Can you imagine anyone one of them doing a term of five years, only and then looking at their family and friends and saying, "Now stastitics state that I have a better than 50% chance of committing suicide, or a better than 33% chance I'll end up homeless not knowing what's wrong with me mentally. There's a real good chance of me not being able to secure the proper mental and emotional health treatments that I need. And a good chance I will have to fight for my medical benefits....Wow! We have a really bright future to look forward for my five years of service to our Beloved Country.....

Not only all of this but they must be concerned about going to trial because....."they didn't play war according to the rule book." It's not a game! You don't get a second chance if you run out of bullets. You don't get a second chance if you missed the one that shot you...it's not a video game. Each player has one "man" or "woman", themselves and once that player is knocked out of the game it's all over.

Mruppert, so with you and understand....

Love and prayers to you and thanks for sharing on this thread.
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Rose
Posted 5/26/2008 1:33 PM (#5850 - in reply to #5817)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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How true, NE....

In a society where so many have nothing else to look forward too. The armed forces many times is a place to call home. How many employers will give you a salary, a place to live, benefits etc. All of this comes at such a very high price when they must engage in war.

And given the price they pay I believe that the compensation, with all that is given, is still seriously lacking.

Love and Peace to you NE....thanks for sharing. So many wise people here with so much passion for peace and empathy for those suffering today. All of your responses give me hope that there are still enough of those out there who, if given the power and means, would do a much better job than what we see being done now. As long as there's HOPE...then it's all worth while.
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Rose
Posted 5/26/2008 1:36 PM (#5851 - in reply to #5836)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



Student

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Paul, this is beautiful. I was reading it and got goosebumps! That's how I usually know I'm touched by something especially in the way of profound literary readings, poetry, prose....etc.

Thanks so much for sharing this. What a great honor and experience for you.

Love and blessings to you and yours....

Edited by Rose 5/26/2008 1:38 PM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/26/2008 1:46 PM (#5855 - in reply to #5851)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Rose; yes; imagine too, hearing/reciting it with a silent, contemplative group who have known the darkness and the pain, with the wind blowing, and when even the birds seem to stop singing, in the great open air & vastness; .....

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mruppert
Posted 5/26/2008 2:17 PM (#5857 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Hello to all:
     Rosebush, don't make a totem crises out of this. It is a cost we pay for war, and very minor compared to others.
     The Nazis bombed the s*&t out of the English. But, their pluck and stamina, which Americans do not have ( Oh...I know I will hear from you all about that statement) caused them to live and fight another day.
     The Allies, particularly the Americans,utterly destroyed Germany. The women and children who died from the "fire in the sky"(I woud use a German term) but it doesn't matter....the end result was the same. We killed all of them that we could, and very successfully. When the charismatic leader of the riech committed suicide, we finally had peace of a sort.......as the Russians were "occupying" Germany and occupying 3 and 4 year old girls, who obviously presented a major threat to them!
      Now, Tojo only wanted to save face.....so Harry drops a big one on Hiroshima; and Tojo is ready to wave the white flag......and so we drop another one on Nagasaki, to further humiliate him.
     In closing, I will NOT defend a nation whose constitution mandates a state religion of Islam. I believe Islam to be a very beautiful religion, but I will not defend it in exclusivity.

Peace....Oo Allah Akbar....
Marty and Meccan Cats, Luckysalaam, Poppysalaam, and SissyJeru-Sallam
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Tracy Martin
Posted 5/26/2008 3:11 PM (#5863 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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When there is great disillusionment, there is great despair.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/26/2008 3:53 PM (#5864 - in reply to #5857)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
So many complexities, again, in these different positions. And it is difficult to retain a state of calm mind when considering how to repsond to great evil, without incarnating that evil oneself. I do too reall past debates on the site about whether evil exists, etc.

But my own take on the example of WWII is that the Nazi ideaology was driven by a false idea of so-called racial purity, which became focused on the bureaucratic extermination of 6,000 at least, Jews, Gypsies, people with mental and physical difficulties. That ideology needed stopping, challenging with ultimate force, since tat was the only force that Hitler indicated by his actions he would accept.

Interesting TV progamme last night about the deeply spiritual Anglican vicar of Baghdad whose view was that the invasion of Iraq had been the only way to seek to resolve matters there.

On the one hand, the world is perfect as it is, paradoxically, the imperfections that arise by our attempts to make it better sometimes also need correcting.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/26/2008 3:56 PM (#5867 - in reply to #5857)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
Very very sorry - in last post, the 6000 was of course, meant to read, 6,000,000; ie, 6 million, who died by planned, bureaucratic & industrialised extermination.
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Rose
Posted 5/28/2008 10:27 AM (#6042 - in reply to #5857)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Goodmorning! Mruppert, it is a crisis. It's a very real crisis that is affecting our entire nation. Yes, perhaps looking at numbers we can say, "the percentage of damages are small in consideration". But isn't this the very problem? We have seen a government that reduces things to euphamism's, and numbers. Completely disconnected from God, life energy and Kharma.

Oh but the spiritual ramifications, it appears, when we are dealing with numbers the spiritual has no part in the equation because our scientists and leaders of war have decided "it's not important enough to believe in". Problem is they don't have to believe in Kharma, Kharma believes in them.

To go on with blinders on, regardless of the possible spiritual backlash upon us or others is to further admit that a good number of us has ceased to evolve as the human species.

Mruppert, love the controversial nature of your posts. Keep them coming. It is only when we stand on opposite sides that we may indeed reach to grow towards a truth that lies somewhere in the middle.

Love and Peace to you and your adorable cats!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/29/2008 5:05 AM (#6071 - in reply to #6042)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Was reflecting on this thread and it occurred to me how interesting it is that in the Bhagavad Gita Krishna appears to Arjuna in the midst of war ...
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Tracy Martin
Posted 5/29/2008 12:42 PM (#6136 - in reply to #5710)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



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Yes consciousness of the the Gita goes beyond war, and also into the honor and obligation of Arjuna's position in life. Even religious texts justify war and continue to be used to justify more mar. Human conscience continues to develop beyond the old messages that were directed at even less developed consciences. Perhaps one of the reasons for the high suicide rate is that very fact. Violence and disrespect and the atrocities of war wear the heart down.

I am now sending loving encouragement to all those gentle souls that have turned the violence against themselves, so they may love that which is precious in themselves and be strengthened.  I send loving strength to those who are courageous enough to contribute their energies towards life, sharing, cooperation, and restoration. I send support and encouragement to those warriors who protect the weak, who love the people, who respect life, and must face hatred and fear everyday. May Peace Prevail On Earth.  

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Rose
Posted 6/11/2008 3:08 PM (#6535 - in reply to #6136)
Subject: RE: SUICIDE RATE AMONGST OUR VETERANS IN AMERICA...STAGGERING NUMBERS



Student

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Tracy I'm with you on this and I'm going to meditate and pray for all that you previously stated and hope that others will join in just a few seconds every day and reflect on these thoughts...


May peace prevail....


Love and Peace to you........
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