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round and round?
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sunflower
Posted 4/26/2008 7:15 AM (#4699)
Subject: round and round?


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having gone through all the threads,and past members,who have now long gone,why is it that suddenly,we are back to square one,strange,i thought the concept of enlightenment was to go forward,intuition is a true guide,and worth more than anything could read,learn,etc,bad vibes
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Chotuni
Posted 4/26/2008 7:32 AM (#4700 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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WHEN I CAME ON TO THE SITE A FEW WEEKS AGO I WAS GOING THROUGH THE DIFFFERENT THREADS AND SAW ONE WRITTEN SOME TIME AGO AND ALTHOUGH IT HAD BEEN VIEWED MANY TIMES THERE HAD BEEN NO REPLIES.I ACTUALLY REPLIED TO IT ALTHOUGH I DIDN'T QUITE GET THE THEME AT THE TIME (IT WAS ABOUT TRUTH BEING WRONG), ANYWAY I THOUGHT MORE ABOUT IT AND WENT TO REPLY AGAIN, I THOUGHT PERHAPS IT WAS ZEN LIKE , LIKE THE SOUND OF ONE HAND CLAPPING ETC. HOWEVER WHEN I WENT TO GO BACK IT HAD DISAPPEARED, I DIDN'T THINK A LOT ABOUT IT AT THE TIME I THOUGHT I WAS PERHAPS MISSING IT FOR SOME REASON, sorry i just realised i am writing in capitals please accept my apologies, so getting back to what i was saying, did anyone else see this thread? can anyone else see it still? and if not where did it go? and if as sunflower says things go round and round, will it come back?
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Tracy Martin
Posted 4/26/2008 11:53 AM (#4707 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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We go round and round because people come in and out with different levels of understanding and questioning.

We go round and round because the things we are asking may have no definitive answer.

We go round and round because the Earth goes round the Sun, because the Seasons go round and round.

We go round and round because of patience and wisdom and gentleness.

And what will happen if we stop going round and round?

Have we defined the exact answers and there is no room for new ideas or deeper understanding of what has gone on before?

The question sounds a bit negative to me, like a put down, an attack, or boredom. Just what is the point of the question? I feel kind of irritated by it and would like to understand what is behind the asking.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/26/2008 12:02 PM (#4710 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
If the world stopped turning, we would all fall off.

I mentioned in another post, Ecclesiastes, who said, 'There is nothing new under the sun'.

But: each generation, each individual needs to uncover, recover and renew their own truth, because, like the layesr of an onion, or a snowflake crystal, each one will be a little bit different.

Isn't that one aspect, but just one, of the Eternal Self?
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sunflower
Posted 4/26/2008 12:47 PM (#4716 - in reply to #4707)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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tracey,have i caught you on a bad day,you seem very defensive,and angry,"negative".Isn,t the whole point of aking questions,to gain knowledge,the whole point of this site.Everyone on a journey of spiritual enlightenment,thirsts to gain knowledge.I can understand a past question,or post being recycled,if that particular quetion,thought etc,still needs more inquiry of it,but to have so many,its as if all has not been dealt with,or,no one has any question,subjects left,even the students themselves have commented on the lengh of certain topics,and have a desire to go forward.I can,t understand why such an innocent question,which it is,should be regarded as a put down,attack,and suspision as to why i was enquiring,where is your deeper understaning,and the need to answer with respect,a simple enquiry,they say attack is the quickest form of defence.Nothing on this earthplane has a definitive answer,we search for the truth of the unknown,have done since time began,but peoples enquiring minds,do get irritated,and lose interest,when no new material,or thoughts,are put before them,to ponder on.As i say,should we not be moving forward,not looking back,or we eventualy get stuck,simple as.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/26/2008 3:20 PM (#4717 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
Sorry, not had the time to trawl through previous posts in such an extensive - and free, unpaid for - website, for which I am grateful.

We always have to start with the Now, the Now moment. Except, disagreeing with myself, Ecclesiastes (again - s/he was/is, such a wonderful spiritual source) ... 'vanity, vanity, all is vanity: .... the fear [sic] of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom'. Perfect love, meanwhile, casteth out fear.

The ying/yand circlet perfectly shows that what is within darkness, is the light, and within light, there is the darkness.

Just let all go, and all will come back.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/26/2008 3:25 PM (#4718 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
Oh Sunflower, sorry; my reading of 'enlightenment' is, not ' to go forward'; but, to go within. And,

by going within

to emerge outwards

as the most beautiful butterfly, creature without name, or description

that is outwith our Imagination.

In the Is-ness, that simply, purely, for ever after and shall be

Is.

Salom, Namaste, Blessed Be

Paul
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mruppert
Posted 4/27/2008 12:10 AM (#4722 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Hi Suncentric, Tracer and PeeJay:
     I have oftentimes repeated myself! New people join in the forums. They do not take the time to read all of the history of topics and, well, maybe they don't care to. To them, everything is a new, fresh experience.
     I think that it is to your credit (both Sunster and Peej) that you have taken the time to read as much and as far as you all did.
     Sundance, I do not see it as an advance from square one to square two, etc. We are not playing chess. Share with me, if you will, that it is more of a humongous circle of knowledge, experience, and inexperience. That, you, I and everyone MUST share what we know,  and find or dismiss the value of  what we learn from others.
     In truth, many times I don't understand a lot of what people talk about when it comes to things that I don't personally practice....hmmm...meditation being one of them. I think that I sorta meditate.....but I don't set out to say "well now, it is 5 o'clock and now I am going to meditate for 26 1/2 minutes".....I just don't do that!  Many write about the value of it; it still has not struck me as something I should, could, or would want to do.
    BUT, my circle of knowledge, experience and inexperience...and yes, even ignorance.....has fit into a much larger circle of those that are the same as me. Just the same as yours has!
     If you need an immediate answer to something such as what the capital of Nepal is...you can go to an encyclopedia. But, here, you will find a discussion as to the significance of Katmandu...a highly energetically charged place. And that discussion will last.
     On the same token, if you want to know the meaning of life, you CANNOT go to the encyclopedia; but here you will find so many ideas and visions! At first, it is mind boggling! Then, you (in spiritual growth) start to "see" and sometimes have the realization in full living color with crystal clarity.
     I am reminded of many years ago, in DeGrande Ballroom, Detroit, Michigan, USA...a group called the MC5 gave an electrifying concert....in a song Rob Tyner sang:
"Let us dance the dance from which all dances come,
Together in the darkness,
Come with me"

It started out....
"I am out, you are in,
Let us form a ring,
Join hands, find a partner,
and come together, yes,
Together in the darkness" - "Come Together", by the  MC5,
 circa 1968

Peace,
Marty and Muppet Cats, Lucky, Poppy, and Sissy Cookie Monster
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NothingEverything
Posted 4/27/2008 1:39 AM (#4725 - in reply to #4722)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: Hirosaki, Japan
mruppert - 2008-04-28 1:10 PM

Hi Suncentric, Tracer and PeeJay:
     I have oftentimes repeated myself! New people join in the forums. They do not take the time to read all of the history of topics and, well, maybe they don't care to. To them, everything is a new, fresh experience.
     I think that it is to your credit (both Sunster and Peej) that you have taken the time to read as much and as far as you all did.
     Sundance, I do not see it as an advance from square one to square two, etc. We are not playing chess. Share with me, if you will, that it is more of a humongous circle of knowledge, experience, and inexperience. That, you, I and everyone MUST share what we know,  and find or dismiss the value of  what we learn from others.
     In truth, many times I don't understand a lot of what people talk about when it comes to things that I don't personally practice....hmmm...meditation being one of them. I think that I sorta meditate.....but I don't set out to say "well now, it is 5 o'clock and now I am going to meditate for 26 1/2 minutes".....I just don't do that!  Many write about the value of it; it still has not struck me as something I should, could, or would want to do.
    BUT, my circle of knowledge, experience and inexperience...and yes, even ignorance.....has fit into a much larger circle of those that are the same as me. Just the same as yours has!
     If you need an immediate answer to something such as what the capital of Nepal is...you can go to an encyclopedia. But, here, you will find a discussion as to the significance of Katmandu...a highly energetically charged place. And that discussion will last.
     On the same token, if you want to know the meaning of life, you CANNOT go to the encyclopedia; but here you will find so many ideas and visions! At first, it is mind boggling! Then, you (in spiritual growth) start to "see" and sometimes have the realization in full living color with crystal clarity.
     I am reminded of many years ago, in DeGrande Ballroom, Detroit, Michigan, USA...a group called the MC5 gave an electrifying concert....in a song Rob Tyner sang:
"Let us dance the dance from which all dances come,
Together in the darkness,
Come with me"

It started out....
"I am out, you are in,
Let us form a ring,
Join hands, find a partner,
and come together, yes,
Together in the darkness" - "Come Together", by the  MC5,
 circa 1968

Peace,
Marty and Muppet Cats, Lucky, Poppy, and Sissy Cookie Monster
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sunflower
Posted 4/27/2008 4:29 AM (#4729 - in reply to #4710)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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interesting observtion,paul,"if the world stopped turning,we would all fall off",as you say,the site is "free",and it is a very useful tool to give the seeker a taste of what he/she may gain.What i can,t understand,is,if i ,or any other seeker of the TRUTH,sees what they like,wants to know more,etc,why then,do we have to become a student,and pay for the mysterious extras,such as you can only use the student site,which from what i,ve read,contains so much knowledge,priveledges,etc,when as already stated,spiritual knowledge should be seen and heard for every human who seeks.if the holder of the knowledge is genuine in his/her quest.to spread the word,,the knowledge,enlightenment,is of no mans domain,its for us to find,and experience,the human hand,pen,can only teach what he/she has read,from books,papers etc..A bit like going to a phycic,to get in touch with a past loved one,so many charlatans out there,yet the seker pays,gets hooked,and is eventualy out of pocket,but still keeps going,to the detriment of family,loved ones,etc its an addiction,like gambling,smoking,the human phyce is addicted and atracted to the word FREE,and follows that path,those claims,only to find,without realizing,there is a price to pay for everything,some good,some bad,i could go on,but i know,without being told,taught,that negative will come from this,when i read between the lines,spirit is absent,especialy from the ones claiming to teach it,have it.So,i put my head on the chopping block,once again,and ask what is in my heart,my soul,my intuition,opinions are free,so chop away,Ah,the elusuve muppet,i dance in the light.
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Rose
Posted 4/27/2008 8:40 AM (#4730 - in reply to #4718)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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I agree with what you posted Paul.

Edited by Rose 4/27/2008 8:43 AM
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Rose
Posted 4/27/2008 8:42 AM (#4731 - in reply to #4707)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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I experienced the same thing; negativity and irritation. And that's because I didn't find cohension in the question. My personal belief is that inquisitive thought is good but it really needs to be coherent.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/27/2008 11:25 AM (#4736 - in reply to #4729)
Subject: RE: round and round?



PhD Alumni

20002000100100
Location: United Kingdom
I'm not sure how to answer your question Sunflower. Perhaps I am not sure what the question is. To take part of what you say, ums does charge course fees; it is an educational process; it all takes time and money to prepare and staff, so I do not mind registering, paying and doing the work. But I do not feel it is addictive. The web-information even says, there comes a time when the student should stop seeking further degrees. You tube videos are free and seems to me Christine is more than generous in sharing insights. So I am not sure if you are criticising the site you are using, or what else the point is.

Bottom line perhaps though is, if we are becoming licensed or 'validated' to offer help, healing or counsel to others, those others have some entitlement to know or feel, that students have been through some kind of rigorous testing process. So I think that is why all this is necessary.

Whose chopping ?
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/27/2008 12:03 PM (#4740 - in reply to #4730)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Rose. Good to be in agreement.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/27/2008 12:09 PM (#4741 - in reply to #4729)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
After re-reading your post several times now, dear Sunflower, I perhaps also should have said in my earlier response, that I feel one of the purposes of undertaking the spiritual discipine(s) of the ums courses is to help us discern charlatanism, in ourself and others, and therefore also protect folk from the charlatanism of which you speak,as well as assist in refining our own discernment and spirituality. As I have said elewhere, i really value UMS for its uniqueness.

But we choose or not, to do the course.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/27/2008 12:44 PM (#4742 - in reply to #4725)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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Location: United Kingdom
NE - did something miss out your message? I seemed to get a recapitulation of Marty's ? ...

But whatever, the song put me in mind of the "Mock Turtle's song" from 'Alice in Wonderland' (Lewis Carrol), with a refrain that alters slightly verse to verse, and I won't give the whole thing, but the relevantly evocative extract is:

"Will you, wo'n't you, will you, wo'n't you, will you join the dance ?"

(am happy to post the whole thing if anyone wants, its only 3 verses!)
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sunflower
Posted 4/27/2008 5:21 PM (#4750 - in reply to #4742)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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paul,NE was being supposedly sarcatic,to make a point,"falls on deaf ears,i,m open to true spirit,true hearts,light.and love,but some opinions bring out the dark side of human,as shown with 3 of these posts.I was not aware free speech was banned from society,and more so on a spiritual site.We poor "public",it seems,do not have the right to say what is in our heart,or to speak intuitively,or even disagree with the "moderators",they can have a bad day,but "we" get the shadows thrown at us. You are a very intelligent soul,paul,and a kind heart,and like to please all,and not offend,you say sorry a lot,i suggest at certain times,what is pertaining to you in speak,between others,does not deserve your kindness,but that is your way,admirable,but care for your soul. You are partly right in what you said to me in your last post,and on the right track,but then it floundered,no matter,one day,in the near future,all will become clear to you. One thing i find really rude,and totaly unspiritual,is the way a person will start a post,and moderaters,students,will join in,and have their own conversation,going deep into things,with big words,and ignoring the soul who was seeking. No matter,i am proudly British,and maybe,the american ways are different to mine ,in thinking etc,especialy humour. Well,i leave you to it,i hope you find what you are seeking,i will pop in,maybe with another opinion,god forbid,it may be altered,as i find posts sometimes are,which gives a different picture,and view point,to what was first said.bad karma.Please don,t say sorry to me again,paul,there is no need,as you have never offended me,luv and light to you.
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Chotuni
Posted 4/27/2008 5:40 PM (#4751 - in reply to #4750)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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there's a quote by george bernard shaw that says england and america are two countries separated by a common language.seems this applies to humor too.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/28/2008 4:31 AM (#4782 - in reply to #4751)
Subject: RE: round and round?



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Thanks Chotuni; i mentioned way back that quote, but wrongly attributed it to Winston Churchill !
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/28/2008 4:33 AM (#4783 - in reply to #4750)
Subject: RE: round and round?



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
I wondered if you were British, Sunflower, as you had implied it before.

Keep in touch.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/28/2008 6:21 AM (#4789 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Oh yes Sunflower, one more thing; or two actually; what you said about intuition at the start of this thread reminded me about what the Christian Bible says about Wisdom (somewhere in Proverbs, but also, elsewhere).

And I noticed this poem, by A E Housman (1859 - 1936), which talks of the world going round & also about seasons ...

THE NIGHT IS FREEZING FAST

The night is freezing fast,
tomorrow comes December;
And winterfalls of old
Are with me from the past;
And chiefly I remember
How Dick would hate the cold.

Fall, winter, fall; for he,
Prompt hand and headpiece clever,
Has woven a winter robe,
And made of earth and sea
His overcoat for ever
And wears the turning globe

----------------------------------

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MollyB
Posted 4/28/2008 10:36 AM (#4794 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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So this thread isn't about that 80's song by Ratt?????? Darnit!

Actually, there may be some theme approproate lyrics in that song now that I think on it (I know, *gasp*, right?!)...

"Round and round
With love we'll find a way, just give it time..."

By the way...I sense a familiar soul here...and I will leave it at that...
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Tracy Martin
Posted 4/28/2008 11:29 AM (#4802 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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                                                       Offence, defence, offence, defence.

I said I was irritated mainly because I thought of the hundreds of people who post on here that cannont be known fully by what is written here, and I found the comment to be a bit thoughtless towards them.  All of us everywhere are on our individual paths and there is so much more going on in our personal lives that we would not want to share here. Life goes on and moves through changes. Stagnation occurs in the habitual thinking of the mind, in the places where we are stuck with our moralizing judgments and criticisms.

Actually, I do apologize for I knew when I acknowledged my feelings of irritation that it would be taken as a personal attack, but I let it be said anyway. I am doing personal work regarding observing  my preferences, approvals and disapprovals, judgments about right and wrong. How we are constantly weighing what we experience as good or bad, whether something is in alignment with our beliefs or not. This was a prime example of watching the reactive ego explode. I asked for clarification and was given it along with judgments about my state of mind, spiritual maturity, and a new barrage of attacks against the school.

So folks, I apologize again to you as I did know that this person tends to perceive words, feelings, and opposing opinions as personal attacks against her, and that it was likely that she would react. I understand her mental suffering as much as I may have gone through myself, and feel sad now that I caused her distress, as I also address similar issues concerning analyzing, moralizing, comparing, and being hypersensitive to criticism. We  share the experience of being the Light and the Shadow.


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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/28/2008 12:33 PM (#4807 - in reply to #4699)
Subject: RE: round and round?



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I would much rather go round and round than straight forward. I have a mathematical mind so bear with me lol.
In 1-dimension you can't go round and round, you can spin but you'll never move
In 2-dimensions you can go round and round, but you always end up where you started.
In 3-dimensions, you can go round and round with much more freedom, crossing over areas you may have already visited, but you are still restricted.
There are 11- dimensions (that we know of).
I believe the purpose in life is to create. There is no "Ultimate" question or "Supreme" answer. Every question we ask comes from inside us. For every answer we recieve, we are only going to develope even more questions. This is the very essence of life. To create. Many picture life as a pyramid, you start at the bottom and trudge your way to the top, where everything culminates to one point. I look at life as an uspide down pyramid. You start singular and simple, and as we grow and learn we open up more and more pathways. Humans have this ability to think, reason, and create, this is what we were meant to do. On a straight path you will only see the things in front of you, what about below you, above, and far to the side? I believe we circulate around so that we are free to create (whether it be questions, answers, ideas, objects, bonds etc.), influence others with our creation, be influenced by them, and then return to our original creation to evolve or reaffirm it. With each new revolution we build upon what we laid down before, so you never really go around back to the same place. We lay the blocks down, run around, and then come back to build more on top!

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John W. Kelly
Posted 4/28/2008 12:33 PM (#4808 - in reply to #4725)
Subject: RE: round and round?


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...a group called the MC5 gave an electrifying concert.... QUOTE]
Wow! Someone else knows of this band! I'll have to go spin that vinyl...
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