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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/11/2008 7:58 AM (#4317)
Subject: VICES



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I wanted to start a post that i believe would benefit myself and anyone interested. I am a smoker, and i would really love to quit smoking. Cigarettes are evil! I was wondering if anyone had any idea and good meditation techniques, or any suggestions at all to help me quit. I smoke the green, not right now though, and have never had a hard time just stopping cold turkey for as long as i wish, but cigarettes are a whole different story.

I encourage people to be open about any vices they have and maybe we can all help each other grow!

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Supernatural3
Posted 4/12/2008 1:56 PM (#4321 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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I have been trained in smoking cessation hypnosis and my clients have been very successful.
It all comes down to one taking control of what you want to put into your body.

Repitition and meditation is a good way to start, or self hypnosis.

Here is the problem. You had to LEARN to smoke. The first time you did it, your body did not like it, but you trained your body to like it. That programed your brain to say, "I like to smoke". That portion of your trained brain is 88% of your total mind. While your will power is your conscious.... that is 12%. It gets overridden with the 88%.

Self hypnosis would re-program your mind to know that smoking is BAD, WRONG, YUCKY and better yet, put the choice back in your hands, so your 88% can agree with your 12% and become whole.

Repitition will help rebuild the subconscious to again 'dis-like' smoking, but you should try to get to the subconscious area to re-program.

Another way to help you is a system called EFT. I am sure you can google that and find Gary Craigs site, or another. That is self help too. Tapping is also discussed in classes here, which is another form of releasing negative patterns and reprogramming positive patterns.

Blessings~
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mruppert
Posted 4/13/2008 2:24 AM (#4327 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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My response is CONTROVERSIAL......just bear that in mind!
Hi OngoMass, Doc, and all:
     First, the INTERNET is public in sooo many ways! If anyone of us engage in things which are considered to be illegal, we all should think about whether or not we want to write about it.
     Having said that, there are many cultures that smoke various things as a matter of daily life, with little, if any, negative effects.
     In Sudan, people smoke Abu-Naklas, cigarettes which have stuff in it which you really don't care to know...such as camel dung. The incidence of what we consider smoking related maladies is miniscule. There, people die of things like...uh....starvation and ...um....getting shot.
     In most western style cultures (and this also applies to non-rural Japan and parts of China) there is heavy smoking and high incidences of smoking related diseases.  But, is this a cause and effect relationship?  That has not been proven...as we cannot tell the effects that the stresses of western culture styles have on health in general when compared to heavy smoking non stressed populations.
     The Vietnamese had the infamous "Parklanes", a mixture of tobacco and trippy weed.....with no general ill affect on the population as a whole. Napalm hurt them a lot more.
      The French smoke those gawd-awful Galoises and Gitanes, yet the incidence of smoking related diseases is still extremely low by comparision to other European countries.
       BUT, HOLD ON, I am not defending smoking! All I am saying is that it is one of the things that people do for a reason. That reason varies amongst the many peoples of the world, as much as it varies between each individual person. It is not a question of good v evil....it is a question of personal habit.
        On......there are many many "things" that will supposedly cause you to stop smoking, but just look at the billions of dollars that the tobacco industry continues to make! The most effective way for you to quit is for YOU to just stop. And, most importantly, if you go for a few days/weeks and then have one because times got tough.....do not by anymeans lay a guilt trip on yourself and consider your endeavor a failure. Just don't smoke again until that next time comes....which will become increasingly longer and longer.
        The problem that I see is that people often approach this as an "all or nothing" proposition...either I don't do it at all, or the minute I do do it, I have failed. Life is not like that!!!!!!!!!!!

Peace and Love,
Marty and Smokey-the-Bear Cats in Ranger Hats
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cause
Posted 4/13/2008 1:29 PM (#4332 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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I apprecate Marty's candor, there are alot of mixed messages in quit smoking literature. The message that some people need to hear sometimes is, quitting can be accomplished. I am smoke free for aproximately the past past five months. And, I am happer for being so. I now see quiting as a reclamation of my willpower. My old lighters now are for candles, and incence charcoal. Keep trying!

peace, love, and light,
cause
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Dancing Daisy
Posted 4/14/2008 12:46 AM (#4338 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES


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Posts: 22

Everytime you want a cigarette, take a few deep breaths. I heard Christine say once that smokers only breath deep when they are smoking, and what they really want is a deep breath!
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/14/2008 10:23 AM (#4345 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Thanks for the advice! Still haven't heard about anybody elses vices!
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/14/2008 10:54 AM (#4348 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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I have plenty of Vices.... lol

but the biggest one is FOOD!

My weight is coming down.... I am now eating consciously. That already is a huge difference. I have been watching that show on TLC called "I can make you thin". It really does work....

I currently have vertigo. Not very fun... Do not know what the cause is... my husband did EFT on it, didn't touch it. Hmmmm.
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Tracy
Posted 4/14/2008 6:12 PM (#4350 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES


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My experience with quitting smoking was one of those major life turnarounds for me. It was an experience in which I heard my inner Wisdom as clear as a bell, and the subsequent experience of dropping nicotine, using tricks that spontaneoulsy appeared to help me in each moment was astonishing to me.

I quit smoking about five years ago in the winter. I was depressed...again...and feeling rather self-pitying and hopeless and angry with myself. I heard this Voice rise up within me, clear and powerful, which basicly said, if you really hate yourself so much, why don't you quit smoking? I had already experienced how difficult it was to quit, how easily I failed to quit, and how my inner Judge loved to beat me up with my failures, and it made sense in an insane kind of way that if I was in to punishing myself, then why not go through withdrawal? (I know this is probably not going to be helpful to most people!)

So I stopped smoking one day, and another day, and another day. At every moment that I would feel overwhelming longings for a cigarette, a solution appeared. Drink water, get out and move, tell yourself...later, clean out the car thoroughly, clean out the ashtrays, do something else, examine the feelings of stress in the moment, breathe....all kinds of helpful tricks appeared in the moment I needed them! After about three days my depression lifted, and I laughed thinking, well, what motivates me to quit smoking now?

The benefit for me was not only did I quit smoking, but I was in clear contact with my intuitive wisdom! For the first time in decades, I was aware of my inner strength and guidance, and quitting was not even painful...it was practically effortless. All the times before this it was agony to go without a cigarette for more than a couple of hours.

This same thing happened again when I went on a fast a year and a half ago and discovered this same intuitive guidance regarding healthy foods for my particular body! What happened? Why had I struggled and strived for years with vices without any success, and now I was making changes almost effortlessly? Part of it was that physical aches and pains had slowed me down to the point of being aware of each movement and each step, my life was becoming a walking meditation!

I wish you all health, peace, and joy. I know how difficult and disheartening it feels to believe that the appetites for harmful things is so strong that you cannot overcome it. But you can! And the wisdom to do it is right inside of you!

Edited by Tracy 4/14/2008 6:13 PM
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MollyB
Posted 4/15/2008 10:23 AM (#4357 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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- I smoke cigarettes (probably about 7-8 a day), with no apologies for doing so and no desire or intention to quit.

- I have a food addiction that I work on, sometimes successfully, others time not so successfully.

- I've tried every illegal drug that's ever crossed my path, but I am currently drug free by choice.

- I overcame an addiction to alcohol about 10 years ago...I HAD to drink everyday then, now I barely drink one alcoholic beverage once a month.

- I enjoy watching American Idol.

I don't know if I would call the above listed things 'vices' because I don't consider any of them to be negative in and of themselves. I've learned a great deal from what I have done and wouldn't change a thing.

Good luck on your efforts to quit smoking. I would think an adamant decision to stop, and quitting for oneself, would be the cornerstone to success.

MollyB
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mruppert
Posted 4/16/2008 11:44 PM (#4399 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Hi all and in particular MollyBee:
     Mollsy....I love ya!
     Now, I always have to ask things in a long winded way, just so that no one who doesn't need to know wont know. And, that, by the way, is an obtuse admission of sorts, but only if the wrong people chose to read into words things that may or may not be there.
     And so....a true story...
      A friend of my college girlfriend was dating a grad anthropology student who made several visits to Central and South America. He brought back some souveniers of an organic nature which had incredible, mind altering value. Let us say, that what he had, makes a commonly popular hallucinogin of the 60's the equivilent of taking an aspirin.
      So, I am wondering if anyone has had a truly mind altering experience due to a vice, or otherwise.

Peace,
Marty and Conscious Expanded Cats, the Luckster, the Popphead, and the Sissworld
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MollyB
Posted 4/18/2008 11:59 AM (#4433 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Hi Marty...

I've been thinking about this one since I read it and I will try to give you as complete an answer as I can.

In my experience, certain substances (like Cannibus) have lead to a cumulative result of increased perception and broader consciousness. My proper use (i.e. with respect for the plant and without abuse of its beneficial properties) over a long period of time produced an opening within myself that has lasted years after my exposure to the substance ceased. Could I have gotten there without it? Perhaps not? My ancestry and my Spiritual leanings being toward Celtic Shamanism (I experienced the 'wounded foot' and 'fire in the head' at birth) I feel I am naturally attracted toward nature's Spiritual gifts. There is a major misconception in the thinking that drugs are a shortcut on the road to enlightenment. If done properly (again, the operative word) it requires a huge commitment and responsibility, especially to oneself. There were times when my use became about quelling my fears or escaping my personal demons and at that time I would say the benefit of mind expansion was certainly not there, and even put me backwards a few steps.

There have been other substances (crystal meth, crack cocaine) I've tried that, had I continued, would have put me on the fast track to a very dark place. I guess you could call that a mind altering experience because I knew once was enough!!

Other substances I've found useful were never going to be readily available to me because of lack or expense (opium), or were designed to be used sporadically (LSD, Salvia Divinorum). From those I was able to get a good chunk of knowledge from my first introduction.

So, now that I've put this all out there, I've been drug free for 2 years by choice so no FEDs better be at my door after this! I was small time, at best!



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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/18/2008 12:29 PM (#4435 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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I have had a mind altering experience that was as a pivotal (such an understatement...sigh) moment in my life. "I don't know who you were, my creator, my maker, my eternal soulmate, maybe just the one soul i have the deepest connection with of all, or maybe just someone opening my eyes, but whoever you are, I love you, and i am beginning to understand." I don't know how to explain but i will do my best.
Once, in an altered state, i communicated with someone who came to me with a heavy burden on their chest. I was sitting letting the world melt around me while my focus was on in intense visualizer and music played in the background. I was stripping myself of the physical aspects of my life. I was truly opening myself up in a way as to become receptive in a way i never previously achieved. I have searched so hard within myself to find THE ANSWER that someone felt the need to come and truly lay it out for me in a way that it would become more clear with time. I never spoke out loud, the communication came through thought and emotion. They showed me what the most magnificent thing the universe could ever be. To create life. I saw a person sitting on a simple chair, and holding a beaded necklace. In front of them was every color size and shape bead one could think of. They turned and looked to me, with tears in their eyes. As they sat they held the necklace with such tenderness, such pain, such heartache that i couldn't help but begin to cry for them. They said to me, "I could never have made one better, I could never have made one more perfect. But it's not. It is flawed. But it is my pride and joy, and I love him." In an instant i was filled with a turrent of understanding. The beader was creating a soul. They were creating life, one link at a time. As i sat, having my "vision" i could begin to hear the song on the computer, and it began to fill me with emotion. It was Yesterday by the Beatles. This song will now forever hit me on an emotional level i cannot understand myself. I sobbed for over 20 minutes while this song played.
I was told that we are all energy, we are all connected, and music is the gateway to connecting with those you cannot. The beader was my maker, and she was a woman. She held my spirit in her hand and said, "I Love you"

I don't know what to take exactly from this. So many directions to look in. Maybe once our souls have grown to a point where we are at Nirvana, we can create new souls, giving a portion of ourselves in the making. Maybe this is the Highest? For some reason i was filled with understanding that knowing THE ANSWER would be total self destruction. It is the search that is invalubale, priceless, spritual, THE answer is still simply AN answer. This was the power of that song. It was able to put emotion in me that made me understand how different our outlook on life would be if we did not have free will, and if we had all the answers.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/24/2008 5:08 AM (#4607 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Location: United Kingdom
Just responding ongoingbattle, interesting vision you had. Before getting to that, reading the posts, I had been wondering whether, from the Higher Self perspective, the issue of virtues/vices is just another of those tricky illusions for us to learn from. Good/evil; Heaven/Hell; yin/yang; heads of coins; my virtue might be your vice, etc. Not that everything is relative, not saying that at this point. So the manifoldness of creation is created for us to discover/recover the heart-unity within it. There are examples from literature - eg, in Biblical tradition, Lucifer, bringer of light, was the highest angel, who fell from grace, becoming our Satan - but then in the book of Job, God allowed himself to be drawn into a game with Satan, whereby poor old Job was the hapless human victim. Suffering is a real issue for us, as is addiction, as is abuse, etc etc; not denying that. But what I am trying to dsicern is the transcendence of the virtue/vice dichotomy into the synthesis of opposites and creation of grace (possible, true Alchemy). After then getting to your vision, in the posts, it felt as if that is what your visioning was also trying to describe. Namaste. Paul
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/25/2008 8:25 AM (#4664 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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ps, ongoingbattle ... your user name makes me think of the Led Zeppelin song 'The Battle of Evermore'. Know it? Good track.
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Chotuni
Posted 4/26/2008 5:58 AM (#4695 - in reply to #4433)
Subject: RE: VICES


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hi Molly B,

so glad you are such a strong willed person and kicked the damaging habits,the world would be worse off without your shining light.i am not keen on that spanish artist though i prefer pictures i know what i am looking at.

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Chotuni
Posted 4/26/2008 6:05 AM (#4696 - in reply to #4695)
Subject: RE: VICES


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saying that i do quite like his "explosion" painting, and maybe "the christ of the cross of st.john"
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/26/2008 12:07 PM (#4711 - in reply to #4696)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Location: United Kingdom
Chotuni - cannot see which Spanish artist to which you are referrring - sorry - was it Dali ? Did you see in his painting of Christ on the Cross, Christ had no nails in his hands ?

MollyB - Celtic shamanism, fascinating. Did you see my post about Nemeton, being a place of Celtic sanctuary?

Marty - and others - over here in the UK there seems to be a new big thing for Ayahuasca. Whilst I think mind altering substances are relevant and important in their cultural context, that whole context is needed for their protected use. Taken out, and used outside of the framework of indigenous spirituality, we open ourselves to risk.
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mruppert
Posted 4/27/2008 1:49 AM (#4726 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Hi all:
     So much for quitting smoking!!!!!!!
     Ohhhhh...and I am interrupted since Poppy can't find her mommy Lucky................................ahhh...reunited, at last!
      Oingo, Molls and Paulo,
      Interesting comments, indeed.
      Molls....."paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep". I have intimate knowledge of the No Such Agency...and I know what they do. If they do it, I have no reason to believe that other agencies don't do the same, perhaps less effective, but still with the same results. My only concern was for your safety in pursuing whatever it is that you might consider a lifestyle.
     Paul Jay.....I was intrigued by your last comment...what do you see as the risks???????
      Onnny....my advice was not flippant......but based on science.....when you can deal with what the latest reports call LTW, you will no longer smoke. Various plans, treatments and therapies prolong the LTW;  just stopping brings it to a head very quickly. Latency to Withdrawal (LTW) can range from weeks to minutes, depending on how heavily you smoke, and how you smoke.
    
Yurs in Peec,
Marty and Family Cats
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/27/2008 11:34 AM (#4738 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Location: United Kingdom
Call me old fashioned, but I think the risk associated with taking primal hallucinogens outside of their cultural context and in a completely alien culture, without the indigenous cultural supports, I see the primary risk as psychosis ...

But please before anyone descends on me with argument overwhelm, please note my earlier comments about the nature of vice, virtue and illusion.
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Chotuni
Posted 4/27/2008 4:58 PM (#4749 - in reply to #4711)
Subject: RE: VICES


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Other substances I've found useful were never going to be readily available to me because of lack or expense (opium), or were designed to be used sporadically (LSD, Salvia Divinorum). From those I was able to get a good chunk of knowledge from my first introduction.(Molly B).yes P.J. my attempt ay humor,obviously something lacking here
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MollyB
Posted 4/28/2008 11:04 AM (#4797 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Hi guys!

Paul, there are certainly risks with what I have done, no doubt about it. I have certainly made my share of mistakes on my path, no doubt about that either! I purposefully and with intention used these substances. It's not for everyone - not even for a small percentage of people in my opinion - but it was already within me when I arrived in this life. That's the best way I can explain it. An element of risk has never stopped me from doing anything, lol! If I ended up in psychosis, well I hope they would have piped some music into my padded room and give me some crayons to draw on the walls!

Mr Marty, I never really considered it a lifestyle...more of one of many ways to push the boundaries between the worlds...
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." - Blake
"The mansion is warm at the top of the hill. Rich are the rooms and the comforts there. Red are the arms of luxuriant chairs and you won't know a thing til you get inside." - Morrison

Chotuni - Thank you for your compliment regarding my will, etc, but I'm not sure about your last post and what exactly you were addressing in the quote you included? Sorry...I'm just not following?
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/28/2008 11:28 AM (#4799 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Location: Wrocester Mass
Moll,
I never really considered any of the substances i used to be part of my way of life either. Their were just something i consciously did along the way. And yes, they are definately only for a small percentage of people. Not everyone will be able to take the positives that i was able to from such experiences. I wonder if anyone has heard of one of the indian tribes in Arizona who does a "life journey." I was told about it once, but sadly cant remember much of anything about it. I guess it is a tribe that has access to a very powerful hallucinogenic substance (a plant i believe, maybe Peyote?). They trip for about 3 days. I cannot recall much more and haven't been able to find much, has anyone heard of this? If it is a right of passing for them, then that would make it a way of their life.
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Omjah
Posted 4/28/2008 4:49 PM (#4830 - in reply to #4317)
Subject: RE: VICES


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LSD at the age of 16 radically changed my understanding or perspective. At that time I saw the galaxies as we see them now through the Hubble telescope, but this was forty years before the photos came out. I also experienced intense emotions of loneliness and fear like I had never known before. It was a 'bad' trip and deeply shook me up. Still, I am grateful for what I experienced.

Hallucenogenic mushrooms allowed me to experience a new harmony and unity within nature and with others, as well as observe the aura emanating from all things. I think of her as a Goddess who should not be played with, but approached with reverence.

Marijuna has been a Goddess of Wisdom and Revelation, and the antithesis as well. I find that I am able to engage the voice of my inner Guide, or my inner idiot.

Tobacco did nothing much good for me except take away the anxiety of the moment...which always returned for more nicotine.

Narcotics Anonymous showed me how I used substances to avoid my pain and responsibility.

Om!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/29/2008 4:46 AM (#4858 - in reply to #4799)
Subject: RE: VICES



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Peyote is the substance that Carlos Castaneda refers to in his early hallucinogenic work with his mentor, Don Juan Mateus. But my reading of those books - notwithstanding the debate as to whether they are 'true' in the sense, of did the events actually happen as C describes - is that don Juan used those drugs as an opening, then went beyond them, into the inner self. Pscyloscibin (not spelt right, sorry, but from 'magic mushrooms') can also be identified.

The Amazonian and Peruvian shamans use Ayahuasca. Also in those regions, the coca leaf is chewed as medicinal. I have chewed natural coca leaves there and they were very energising, erduced appetite, and reduced altitude sickness; its also drunken as a tea in the Andes. Interesting how the distillation of natural substances & then the transfer to the non-indigenous world produces the negative effects - coca into cocaine, poppies into heroin, etc. That was kind of my point, that in their cultural context, such substances can be useful, but that the approrpiate cultural traditions need to be observed.

In my (many years) work in the field of psychiatric mental health I have come across a number of instances of psychotic episdoes, some brief, some longer, some with permanent effects from some of the above, as well as from cannabis (another indigenous herb)
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mruppert
Posted 4/30/2008 2:03 AM (#4879 - in reply to #4830)
Subject: RE: VICES



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Omjahhhhhh......
      Tell me what you truly saw!
       In sensory deprivation, unaided, there was peaceful sleep but rem with delta waves.
       Under the influence of high school trip weed there was rem and multiple wave patterns.
        Under the influence of mild hallucinogens, there was rem and multiple wave patterns, asynchronous.
         But, under the influence of unknown psychotropics, there was  no eye movement , and no discernable wave pattern.

Did that person die?

Peace to You,
Marty and Imaginary Cats, Luck, Popp, and Blind Siss
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