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DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?
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Rose
Posted 4/3/2008 2:50 PM (#4222)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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A couple of attorney's were discussing this on the news the other day. Now I haven't researched the percentages but the general idea is that more american men abandon their families than any other group of men....Hmmmm....if anyone finds statistics to suggest differently please share. But there are those that feel that women get the short end of the stick in marriage, over and over again. So a couple of these news reporting professionals chimed, "why get married? Marriage is antiquated!"

Care to share your thoughts and opinions on this subject?

Personally, it appears as though there is a trend moving in this country. I wonder how many young women today are more interested in having families than great careers. On a whole, it does appear that the career offers more longterm security. Especially when marriages are failing at record numbers.

My personal jury is still out on this subject, and searching for more and more information to chew on.

So please do share your thoughts...

Love and peace to all of you.....
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Tracy
Posted 4/3/2008 4:18 PM (#4223 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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I would say that there will be marriage, and there will be partnerships, and there will be all kinds of relationships as there are and always have been. Marriage as a contract between people will continue, as will divorces, and separations. So I don't think marriage will ever be antiquated as there will always be couples who want to make a solemn agreement with one another. I also think that the trend throughout history has been one of many relationships in a lifetime, although many have been covert. So it doesn't seem to be a this or that kind of issue to me, it's just the way it's always been.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/3/2008 7:24 PM (#4225 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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My two cents worth.... LOL

Our system is set up for marriage. Insurance will not cover house hold adults, if no marriage is present. Religion also teaches strong marriage vows and there are still more religious people out there than non-religious people. Look at our court system for example. We swear into a bible.

Yet, it's becoming so easy to leave your partner, but harder to abandon them. Court systems are hitting dead beat parents hard.

In my own experience, I divorced my first husband, my lifestyle hit an all time low, and I was the one with the kids and no career, because I chose to be a mom, instead of career woman. Which landed me in a world of hurt, when I couldn't stay married with someone who mentally and physically abused me. This is WHY woman now choose careers, they watch how bad their moms struggled, while taking on all the kids and daddy went out to play golf, date, run around and forget the kids existed. It's a real shame. At least they are forced to pay child support now, or they lose their drivers license, and sometimes have to go to jail.

However, it also DOES happen the other way around. I am now re-married, and my husband is the one who took over raising his kids. I am the full time step mother to my husbands kids. While he still has a career, and I am now building mine, he is the one who gave up the bachelor life, to keep his kids. But he won me, because of that very point. I saw how much he wanted to be a part of his kids life, and wouldn't give up, fought and won. ((( My HERO)))

I have been with him now for 6 years and I can say, I believe now in holy matrimony. He doesn't deserve anything but the best, and I hope I can be the one to give him that.

So, I honestly think, when it's right, marriage is right. But it may take twice or more to figure out just what one really does like. Had I not gone through a bad marriage, i may not have appreciated the one I have now. I hope to keep this one.

Anywho, that is how I see it, but I can understand the points made very much.
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SouthernCrow
Posted 4/3/2008 7:52 PM (#4228 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Posts: 23

Dear Rose,

It is a fairy tale for many to marry a handsome or beautiful partner and be happy ever after. One has to question the motivation to get married, is it for emotional security, to bring children into the world, to acquire money or status , to have regular access to sex, or a feeling of love and affection for that person. I believe that rigid teachings such as the traditional churches "no sex before marriage" is fading away this is a law created by man not by God. Marriage is also something that binds though the mind a contractual agreement it does not necessarily correspond with binding through the heart. There are many marriges that are still together because of the sense of duty - the mind bind, instead of the heartstrings which bind. Even if one loves another dearly it may not be in their highest good for them to get married. One has to be perceptive of divine signs or messages from a higher dimension in order to comfortably make that decision. Another consequence of marriage is that it can result in a loss of passion through monotonous sex. Passion exists in things that are renewed or new. The excitement you felt when you had your first bicycle can be likened to the excitement of a new relationship since both are new. The heart however has its own agenda, In its spiritual centre there exists a candle that can ownly be lit by a special person. The heart ultimately seeks that person the special one. In my experience it takes many tries and trials in order to find that one. The ideal partner is a mirror or reflection of oneself someone who wants to create the same and until one is clear about their own mission in life and who they are it is impossible to know if that other person is a good partner. Know oneself and their mission on earth first, find partner to create it with second.


Edited by SouthernCrow 4/3/2008 8:02 PM
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/3/2008 9:43 PM (#4229 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Wow that was very beautifully put.

I enjoyed reading that post very much, made a lot of sense.

What a great topic.
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Rose
Posted 4/4/2008 10:36 PM (#4246 - in reply to #4225)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Good point Doc, and good point Tracy. Maybe there's hope yet for the romantics at heart. I would like to believe that it is a possibility, but sometimes it's easy to lose heart with all the failing relationships around us.

And Doc is right, our society does endorse marriage. But I wonder if it's for nothing more than getting people together to procreate. I would hate to think that we need all these young people just so they can be sent off to die in foreign lands. When I look at all those young soldiers faces...I can't help but think, "this is what we are here to do to our children?"
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Rose
Posted 4/4/2008 10:41 PM (#4247 - in reply to #4228)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Southerncrow, you said something that I don't believe I've ever heard before. You mentioned the perfect partner being a reflection of ourselfs.....that's an interesting concept. I never thought of it that way before. Many times people say opposites attract, but on the other hand birds of a feather...

If someone is a reflection of yourself and you have traveled that road to self discovery how much more likely is it that you will have insight into assisting your partner on their path?

Thanks for sharing that. Now I'm chewing on your words and formulating all sorts of possibilities. You never know when your words will form a key that unlocks new and creative ideas and realizations....
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mruppert
Posted 4/5/2008 12:21 AM (#4248 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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"Isis, oh Isis, you're a mystical child,
What drives me to you is what drives me insane,
I still can remember the way that you smiled...
On the fifth day of May in the drizzlin' rain"
----The Ballad of Isis, aka Isis, as sung by Bobby Dylan
Hi all:
     To this very moment, I love my bride Isis; but we did not turn out like the song. And thus, we are apart forever.
     I have not, nor ever will, love anyone the same.
     HOWEVER, back to the topic.....I am confused as to what is really being discussed here (and I noted that I am the first male to respond).
      Marriage is a civil and religious contrivance, and, at best, is a ceremonial declaration of "love and fidelity". At worst, it is a means to establish certain rights and entitlements. The history of marriage is long, so I can't really get into it without boring you all to sleep.
       My opinion is that one cannot really say it is antiquated; if one means that it has no long lasting value in a society, because it does, if just for the sole purpose of undoing it.
       Also, if we are to try to equate marriage  with love, then we might just as well try to equate an apple to an orange...which can be done...both are fruit, both have common vitamins and minerals, both grow on trees, both make nice juice, etc. But, no one of us would mistake an apple for an orange.
        To me, love is spiritual and mystical in nature. It is there, or it is not. When it is there, then there is a melding of two souls to become one, yet mindful of the individuality of the each persona. Whether the two souls involved are in happy cohabitation, or thousands of miles apart, or separated by the veil of mortality, the "love" is STILL there, as it is energy, which cannot be created or destroyed. It simply is!
         The elegance of this idea is proved by the study of the quanta. When an electron is split at, say, a 45 degree angle, and each flies off into space....each will always maintain that 45 degree angle in relation to the other, through  space, time and infinity; each always aware of the other.
          Hah! I've made love the science of electron orientation and quantum physics, silly me!
          When you are in love, you know you are and you know you always will be; when you are married you know you are, but there is always the chance that you won't be.       

Peace to you,
Marty and Cats who love by fighting over who gets to sit in the box.
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Dancing Daisy
Posted 4/5/2008 3:47 AM (#4253 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Posts: 22

the wise choice would be to do both! Be a career woman AND get married if that's what you want. That way you have all bases covered!
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MollyB
Posted 4/5/2008 12:31 PM (#4255 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rose...

If you think of the nature of a reflection, there is sameness and there is also opposite...left looks like right, etc. So that leads me to believe that same and opposing attributes are existing in a relationship of twin flames ("the one"). As far as soul mates, opposites attract, I think, in order to teach eachother, but the people are often similar in beliefs or at least have some common ground.

But then again, none of what I'm saying has to do with marriage, lol.
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Rose
Posted 4/5/2008 3:47 PM (#4257 - in reply to #4248)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Mruppert, I believe that all human unions are okay as long as both people are self discovered and agree as to what they are getting themselves into. I think the problems arise when one person signs up for one type of relationship and the other has a whole other idea of what a relationship should be.

Both parties need to agree, it needs to be a mutual agreement and not unilateral agreements. You know what I mean?

Like what you wrote about Isis....beautiful..
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Rose
Posted 4/5/2008 3:50 PM (#4258 - in reply to #4255)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Sounds like your talking about marriage, in some ways, yes it's like marriage. Maybe if we looked at marriage more as a union that is designed to help all the participants on their spiritual paths we would find more compassionate partners...not doormats...compassionate partners with a healthy ability to also say, Okay I understand, but don't tread on me...


Love and Peace...Seatle Washington...Do you like that Seatle's Best better than Starbucks?
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mruppert
Posted 4/6/2008 5:39 AM (#4262 - in reply to #4257)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rosey, et al:
     But, wouldn't you agree that no matter what you start out with, that over time the relationship will "evolve" into something else. Hopefully, it deepens and matures, like the aging of wine. But, sometimes, it fragments.
      "Relationship" is a tricky word. And, it may or may not bear upon love, just as marriage may or may not bear upon love.
      Go back a way in history and look at the monarchies of the 15th through 17th centuries.......royals "married" other royals for expediency. So, you had a 35 yo man "marrying" a 13 yo girl. Why? Because England didn't want to fight a war with Spain, but wanted Spain as an ally against the French.
       The marriage is a marriage; but there is no love, and therefore, by my definition, it is not.

Peace n' Fraternite;
Marty and
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Rose
Posted 4/6/2008 6:22 AM (#4263 - in reply to #4262)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Mruppert, you bring up a good point. I think it's worth a look to go back and see exactly when love and romantic notions were introduced into marriage. Marriage was more of an arrangement. And a greater deal of the arranged marriages lasted far longer. Now I ask myself this question, "did they last longer because the parties entered into them with the realistic knowledge and expectations that the marriage was originally designed? Whereas today the expectations are far more unreasonable and therefore because the marriage fails to reach romantic notions and expectations they fail at a much higher rate?

Food for thought...Thanks for the response. I am posing these questions to everyone. Share your thoughts.

Peace and Love to all...
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MollyB
Posted 4/6/2008 4:01 PM (#4266 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rose...

Personally, I'm a Chock Full o' Nuts girl, and I'm not just speaking of my state of mind, lol! I can't tell much of a difference between Seattle's Best and Starbucks. Maybe because they're both owned by the same co.

Take care!
Molly
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Rose
Posted 5/14/2008 1:11 AM (#5217 - in reply to #4266)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Interesting you mentioned this, they ran a news story about Seattle's best but never mentioned that they were owned by the same company.

Where did you find that information?

Another funny thing, was I walked into a Seattle's Best and thought I was at Starbucks, because I saw the initials SB on signs all over. Then I realized I was in Seattle's Best! But that's how similar they're layouts are....
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mruppert
Posted 5/14/2008 3:28 AM (#5227 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi to all on this post:
     My Mom used to take me to the "Chock Full O' Nuts" coffee shop after she got off work, in Rego Park, Queens, NY.
      I would always order a "clam roll" and a brownie. The only other place that had clam rolls was HoJo's (Howard Johnsons).
       For me, marriage is not an antique idea or concept...it is the fabric of life. Had it not been for my Mom to marry my Dad, I may have not known the joys of Chock Full of Nuts!
        But, the pure hatred that they had for each other, certainly colored my mind.

Peace,
Marty, and sleepy cats, est.

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NothingEverything
Posted 5/14/2008 4:38 AM (#5231 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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This is not so much about your original post, so I'm sorry.
This focuses on the "Marriage in Antiquated"
Marriage is quite successful in many countries.
I never take American or "western" values as being
the standard. Asia claims more than 60% of the population with Africa claiming another 12%.
North America bearly breaks 5%, The failed relationships that exist with in America contributes little
to the percentage of relationship data worldwide.
43,500,000 marriages worldwide in 2007. There were 8,750,000 divorces in 2007, thats 5 marriages for every 1 divorce.
This is also about the average over the years.
Basicly, I believe American values are off, proof in the 46% divorce rate...
Mostly due to impulsivness.
One of the many reasons I stay away from the states and married from elsewhere.
Also, humor and understanding does much!

Sources:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
(And various statistic websites on the internet)


Edited by NothingEverything 5/14/2008 5:04 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 5:59 AM (#5232 - in reply to #5231)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Caught up with this post late in the day. Just to offer this, which in a way harks back to Southern Crow's perceptive comment, that C G Jung referred to 'Marriage as a means of individuation"; ie, the process of working through (and not fleeing) the inevitable highs and lows in marriage - or a long term committed relationships - involves us in learning and self discovery, and the meaning of such otherwise transcendental concepts as, sacrifice, renunciation, selfless love, that ultimately assist us in our 'individuation' - acheivement of consciousness.
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John W. Kelly
Posted 5/14/2008 3:02 PM (#5293 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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If I'm not willing to say "I do" for my wife, what does that say about me? Its a vow I take very seriously.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:21 PM (#5294 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Location: United Kingdom
Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:22 PM (#5295 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



PhD Alumni

20002000100100
Location: United Kingdom
Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:23 PM (#5296 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



PhD Alumni

20002000100100
Location: United Kingdom
Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:23 PM (#5297 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



PhD Alumni

20002000100100
Location: United Kingdom
Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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paddy
Posted 7/26/2010 2:06 AM (#19671 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Posts: 32
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My thoughts on this may seem peculiar so please disregard them if they don't resonate with you.

1) Part of the human genome is a monogamy gene. Most people in society have this gene, and
being monogamous in a marriage complements this gene programming. From the standpoint of
dominant monogamy gene programming, marriage is not antiquated.

2) Marriages are time bound, they start with vows and end in death or divorce. Wedding vows
on the other hand, from a historical context and for all practical purposes, are eternal. Once a
sacramental vow is spoken than that history lives eternally ever after. From the standpoint of
time then, marriages alive in good standing are not antiquated.

3) The possibility of past lives brings the possibility of past marriages and past spouses who upon
spiritual awakening recognize each other. Quite possibly a past life spouse can give a person some
profound experience of love greater than a person's current spouse. The relative nature of such
perceptions can cause confusion and misunderstanding. In the context of spiritual relationships,
a poly-amorous attitude seems congruent with such reality as distinct from physical monogamy.
The act of soul mating is not limited to or dependent upon marital status. In the context of growing
by way of this complexity, marriage is not antiquated.

4) Marriage arrangements can offer the opportunity of catalyst that accelerates a person's
growth if used properly. Living in close proximity to another, as marriage can allow, offers
such an opportunity. In the context of growth catalyst opportunity, marriage is not
antiquated.

5) The family is a modular construct of society, and marriage is one vehicle by which a family
can structure itself. Since society is governed by wise leaders who grant tax benefits to such
constructs, it seems that marriage can offer some practical advantage in ways government
would like to encourage. The ideal of a functional family based upon a functional marriage
that sets functional example for functional children is alive and well, but as a generalization it
is not the only way to structure. Possibly people become more manageable as less complicated
to govern when they live married. (Typically, enlightened people are not easy to manage.)
Governmentally, marriage is not antiquated.

6) Spiritually, the notion of Free Will may relate to the idea that we have a god given right
to experience life in ways we freely choose. As a person uses their free will to marry, then
they may find themselves entrapped, enslaved, and cut off from many other ways they may
experience life, by way of an arrangement made of their own free will. One of the important
lessons of life seems about committing oneself in ways that necessarily entail trade offs.
It may be that people marry in a state of great ignorance relative to the awareness they
grow into later, whereupon they figure out they infringed their own free will to an extent
corrective action is needed which includes taking responsibility for whatever karma needs
resolution. Examples abound of abusive relationships where people muster the courage to
claim such ways of living are not good enough anymore and divorce to grow happier true
to that marital success culminated in divorce. As a person disengages from a Patriarchal
way of living they may better discover a loving Matriarchy that is accepting to any form
of marital status. Congruent with honoring Free Will, marriage is not antiquated.

7) Perpetual trade disparities related to gender differences abound in ways which women
often find themselves unable to earn as much or obtain benefits such as health insurance
to the same degree that a man can. Marriage can enable resources to combine in ways
that buffer such gender difference trade disparities. From a standpoint of evolving society
to greater levels of resource equality, marriage is not antiquated.

8) A very basic trinity is formed by Momma, Poppa, Baby. This trinity resides dear
to every person's incarnation, and is commonly made possible by way of marriage.
From this symbolic standpoint, marriage is not antiquated.

9) I believe in a general sense, that Marriage is Not Antiquated,
even though I'm not presently married nor have any desire to be,
is that a paradox?


paddy




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