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dottie
Posted 4/2/2008 2:16 PM (#4205)
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Why is sex so easy to humans! (Or am I assuming it is easy to everyone) why is it easier to talk to another in bed than in a "real" conversation? Besides the physical need to procreate, sex is useless! Well it was useless to me until I found this person! Now besides getting the physical pleasures, I get soulful connections. (U guys must be thinking "ohh she just made love", that is an understatement) What is the soul connection in having sex, what exactly am I feeling? Energy? Soul? I don't know exactly how to describe it!
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Nefertiti
Posted 4/2/2008 2:24 PM (#4206 - in reply to #4205)
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To me, it is a beautiful connection between two who desire one another. It's the closest two people can possibly get. To be inside, or to have someone inside you, is giving a part of yourself, to another in the most intimate possible way.

It is not meant to be dirty, or shameful. Communication outside the intimate circumstances should also happen. Best friends outside the bedroom, but two becoming one, inside the bedroom.

I find it beautiful.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/2/2008 5:37 PM (#4208 - in reply to #4205)
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Wow, Nef, Welcome.

You took the words right out of my mouth, I couldn't have said it better.

Blessings~
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Rose
Posted 4/21/2008 11:33 AM (#4517 - in reply to #4205)
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you know it is beautiful but our society does it's best to turn it into a cheap display of porn. We have porn everywhere! We need more examples of loving couples. You know the ones that LOVE and CONNECT while making love and not the ones that look like cheap blow up dolls who have no emotional connections to their johns etc.

Loving couples that are real and look like the regular people we see all around us. You know the beautiful size 16 and plus size women that make up most of America and the Men that are not Movie Star quality. It's a shame, to me, that so many of our advertisers are telling men that the only women worth their time and money are the size 3 airbrushed models, etc. By allowing this sort of thing we are diminishing the value of our young women and all the rest of our good American Mothers, Sisters, daughters etc.

But I heard it all this week! They were advertising and discussing a new children's book called, "my beautiful Mommy", it's about a Mom who is having plastic surgery to "improve" her looks and it's supposed to help children to understand. Understand what?
To me this is just opening up a way to push plastic surgery like some sort of cheap commodity! Next thing you know all the kids will be asking, "is my nose too big or too small?" "Are my breasts the right size." This is serious because it's our daughters that are being targeted by this sort of non sense.

You know it's stuff like this that defends "marriage being antiquated". But I'm not so sure it's all marriages are marriages to successful American Men. Is this really what we want to have our daughters believing? Do we really want them believing that they are nothing more than the sum total of their breast, waist and thigh size?

I know I digress, but just wanted to share some morning thoughts and this thread took me down a road of rant.....

Peace and Love to all of you.
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schenn
Posted 4/21/2008 1:17 PM (#4518 - in reply to #4205)
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I agree rose, the truth of the matter is that as long as 75 year old men are in charge of the money of the country, they'll do what they can to suppress "minorities"

MTV is a great example of this, women are constructed as sex objects (not as musicians) by the 75 year old men in charge of the music companies. Gangster Rap is being produced by rich old white men in order to promote violence and ignorance among african americans. In this way, they can ensure they hold onto the money and that everyone is too distracted by the flashing colours to notice. (Oh and dont hate porn too much, masterbation massivly drops the potential for prostate cancer and most guys I know need something to look at)

Back to the topic, the french call the orgasm "le petit morte", the tiny death, because your heart stops. This is supposed to make sex an intimate, spiritual, experience to be shared by those in love with each other. But we're humans and we like things that feel good, so thats not always going to be the case.
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dottie
Posted 4/21/2008 1:54 PM (#4519 - in reply to #4205)
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Rose your post has got my heart racing!! I am only 25, and of average weight, but as a woman I hold a burden. What am I supposed to look like, are my hips too big, I am a double digit in my pants so that must mean I am fat, is my nose to big, or even NEEDING to feel sexy! Everything in the magazines and T.V are making woman look like cheap shallow whores(excuse my language). I can't even imagine what "america's daughters" are feeling! It seems to me that from 1950's betty crocker to now 2008 pin-ups are not much different if you think about it. Are we just something to look at? It is sad to think that some mothers are lowering the bar for there daughters. The shell will die and the soul shall fly away!!!!
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Rose
Posted 4/21/2008 3:41 PM (#4520 - in reply to #4205)
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Exactly Dottie! When I look at the unreasonable standards that women are being held up too. And for what? Because they want to bag some ugly rich guy that most couldn't stand making love too with the lights on! And I can't think of one reason why every woman in American society shouldn't aspire to hold a Doctorates degree in something. Why one woman shouldn't be an industry leader. The statistics I've read say that American Men abandon their families more than any other men on the face of this earth! That means there are many abandoned wives and children, so we need to make sure that women, young women are prepared to take care of their own needs and the children and it's a very sad state of affairs when we hold these type of men up, give them honors and put them in positions of power. The ones that should be held up are the ones that are good fathers, and those that hold high moral standards. The "cool, bad boys that we see at the bars and getting lap dances, purchasing all sorts of porn" are not the ones we should be glorifying for our daughters to mate with. If we could get society, on a whole, to put spirituality to the forefront of recognizable and glorifiable attributes I believe we will be on a path of healing this country.

Today on the news a police officer was cleaning up a big gang fight where several teenagers were shot and killed. He said, "we need to get kids back to being kids. And not being able to easily pick up a gun and cause all this destruction and killing." Okay, I agree with that, but in order for kids to be kids wouldn't Fathers need to be Father's and Mother's need to be Mother's? Wouldn't the family unit need a society that promotes and endorses the family unit? Not a society where, and I take this from a real case I saw on the news, "daddy is at the local club right outside the residential neighborhood, getting a lap dance. He told his wife he was picking up milk and the baby is locked in the vehicle while he was in there for two hours. Someone called the cops and he's getting hauled off for child endangerment." Okay, what is a strip club doing on the outside of a residential neighborhood? Why are these clubs so readily available? Children have to walk past these places to get to school or somewhere to play.

Why are we so laxed on our moral boundaries? Freedom is lovely when used with responsibility. Every Mother in America who has had a child molested and or murdered behind some sex crime must look around and think, "who's watching out for us? Who's there really caring about the environment that is being groomed here in America? Who cares?

Dottie, the most beautiful thing about all women is our spirit. Your spirit is the most valuable and beautiful thing about you. And regardless of size or hair color, or type of clothing you will always have that beautiful part of yourself.

I feel for the women who are feeling the need to spend all that money on plastic surgery. The problem isn't with them it's with the people outside of them who are telling them "you could look better like this". There's a problem with the books that are being produced to help our children deal with why Mommy needs to adjust her nose and her boobs, and her stomache and buttocks so that Daddy won't cheat with the other woman. The problem with this philosophy is....if he's going to cheat, it doesn't matter how good you look. He's going to cheat anyway. It's a spiritual issue, not a physical one.

Love and Peace to you Dottie....
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/21/2008 4:34 PM (#4521 - in reply to #4205)
Subject: RE: -----<----@



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Sex easy between humans ?

Mabe then I am not human. Or normal.

Oh dear... as I always suspected ...

Paul
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Tracy
Posted 4/21/2008 6:50 PM (#4524 - in reply to #4205)
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It's alright Paul. We all have such a wide variety of experience and expression when it comes to 'intimacy.' What is 'normal' now was not a hundred years ago, or a hundred years in the future. In American society and media sex is overplayed. There are many ways to express intimacy, closeness, trust, caring. Besides, we are all stardust.........
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mruppert
Posted 4/22/2008 12:03 AM (#4526 - in reply to #4205)
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Hi all:
    Some peacocks are looking to get it on with other peacocks and lo and behold, one spys an elaborate tail feather arrangement, so enchanting, that wam bam, some little peacocks will be born. Peacock Porn! It was the feathers that stole the heart away!!!!!!!!
     Our impetus, as any other species, is to breed, not love, but breed. Our evolution to a higher order gave us the ability to have culture...and culture changes over time. Our cultural perceptions of an adequate breeding partner, has changed over time. But, our higher order of "intelligence" has caused us to consider breeding partners for attributes which may or may not be relevant to the survival of us as a whole. Beyond that, we have developed a sense of fidelity, of monogamy (which is also exhibited in some other species) and we choose to call this love.
As has our cultural perception of a proper breeding partner changed over time, our sense of "love" has changed over time. It has become less subjective and moreso objective. Hence, the new impetus to put on the "peacock feathers" of today...liposuction, implants, surgeries, botox, etc. And,our media does little to discourage this.
     Imagine, if you will, a population based on breeding with females (and I am choosing females only to make a point and not to suggest anything other than that) such as Paris Hilton or Brittany Spears. What would our quality of life be like?
     It is hard to discuss these kinds of things without clearly defining oneself as male or female, and risking the censure of the opposite.
     But, it helps to know how I perceive beauty...so, I will tell you women I truly think of as beautiful...and, I will have to use names you might know (as they will be in the media; as you will not readily find pics of authors and poets and scientists)
Elizabeth Montgomery, the witch with the twitch
Anne Francis, "Honey" with the Ocelot, and she had that mole!
Sandy Dennis, the cat lady, of "Up the Down Staircase" fame
Barbara Steele, Queen of Horror, when I was a kid,
Karen Black, "cross eyed Mary" and a women of great power!
     No on today would consider these women very attractive,except Liz, if we discounted time and had them as youthful as, say, 20 years ago.
     As silly as this sounds, my point is that I have a great "love" for these women, and sex is just secondary, though I might give anything to be with any one of them, for a time which would be timeless.......

Timeless Peace,
Marty and Coquetish Cats, Lucky, Poppy, and Sissy
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/22/2008 4:42 AM (#4529 - in reply to #4524)
Subject: RE: -----<----@



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Thanks for the reminder Tracy; we are indeed star stuff ... like the old Woodstock song

'We are stardust, we are golden, we have got to get ourselves back to the Garden' ...

Mystics have often compared the union with the Divine with sexuality ... eg., The Song of Songs in the Christian Bible.

Beautiful people? Inner or outer beauty ? Back to the Old Testament perhaps: "Blessed is the man who finds Wisdom, the man who gains understanding ... nothing you desire can compare with Her ... She is the tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed" ... the dark Lady Sophia, Goddess of Wisdom [a book by Caitlin Matthews]

Blessings
Paul

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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/23/2008 1:24 PM (#4578 - in reply to #4205)
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It is so wierd to think of how our morals and lives have evolved. 100 years ago, relationships began very young, even at ages that are illegal now. A woman's main "job" was to begin procreating at a young age in order to raise a large family to work the farm. What would a real hard working farmer have thought of Paris Hilton then? Even if he was attracted to her do you think she had what most people were looking for in a partner to help them live and survive at that time period? I believe we are extremely lucky to live in such a well off nation, with so much oppurtunity around us, but i believe its changed a lot of people. Many people aren't looking for that hardworking, dedicated, honest individual. They are looking for that trophy partner, that one they can flash around and show off like a prize. I don't understand this. "The Good Earth" by Pearl S Buck is a pretty good book. It shows a man who marries a strong woman that will help him survive. Towards the end of the story, the man becomes rich, and eventually has a concubine that lives with them, but she is essentially a mooch. In the story it kind of shows this evolution from necessity to desire and egotism. """We american's have bound our feet to hard for too long and we may never walk the same again.""""

I personally find that when you meet a kind, genuine, stimulating person, male or female, they grow on you the longer you know them. Many people that I've met i wasn't much attracted to until i got to know them better. And many people i thought extremely attractive, i found less so the more i got to know them lol. I truly believe that the more open and honest somebody is, the more they think, question, answer, provoke, diffuse, and all this with a genuine warm heart and no ill intentions, the more beautiful they are. Good people are like wine, they only get better with age, and i intend to find a women that is more beautiful to me everyday. Maybe this is why so many cannot connect except during sex and then only sexually. We have lost sight of what really connects us to others, and dropped it clean off the priority list
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/23/2008 1:27 PM (#4579 - in reply to #4205)
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Lovely prayer, if I may say, ongoingbattle.

Of course as I am sure you know, you already have the answer, just needs to unfold as the spring bud within and emerge as the flower of your truth ....
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/24/2008 8:04 PM (#4643 - in reply to #4205)
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Why thank you kindly Paul, much appreciated!

Edited by ongoingbattle 4/24/2008 8:05 PM
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Rose
Posted 4/24/2008 9:58 PM (#4645 - in reply to #4578)
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This is really beautiful ongoingbattle. And I must admit I'm a little confused. Let me explain...you wrote so beautifully and so full of warmth I immediately assigned the value of "woman" to you. Then you mentioned finding the woman...and I thought..."is this a man writing this?" Well, I guess it doesn't matter but I was both moved and perplexed.

I have faced some of the same things as a person. I have found that there are few who really understand the true meaning of intimacy and how to reach the deeper levels of intimacy and commitment. It's so simple and yet for us in our human state it's so difficult. Truth, what I have learned is that in a relationship that has been damaged many say time will heal all....I don't believe that time is the true healer...TRUTH is the healer. Truth brings two souls together. Lies tear them apart. Every lie between two lovers is like driving a nail in a board and at the end of it you pull each nail out and you have a one by four board of wood full of holes and the next blow no matter how little will shatter it to splinters!

Intimacy is best when it's strong and the truth keeps each person whole. Commitment is important and there must be no higher importance than keeping truth between the two lovers. Time will not heal, but Truth will heal.

If lies have damaged love then only the truth will start to fill in the holes.

Love and Peace
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Tracy Martin
Posted 4/24/2008 10:40 PM (#4646 - in reply to #4205)
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These are all such lovely posts about a sensitive subject! Have you ever seen the peacocks tail feathers shake and shimmer, and been captivated by its hundreds of hypnotizing eyes? Is it not the wisdom of nature that the female is attracted to the most vibrant, healthy, and strong male? For the purposes of breeding.

I think that loving one's self enough to learn to heal all that we may do and think that has sabotaged our dreams, hopes, health, and passion for living, loving, and appreciating the miracle of our existence, is the prerequisite for giving love in all our relationships.

We have been taught that the love we crave is "out there." We have the wounds and the loneliness and the judgments and pity of others to believe we have failed to attract what we need. Loving yourself opens the possibility in you to allow you to recognize yourself in others, to see within them the same needs and desires and passion for living and creating. The source of love is in you.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/25/2008 3:53 AM (#4650 - in reply to #4205)
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Absolutely Tracy; isn't it one of Christine's video satsangs that says, 'we are the love we seek' ?

Also, 'The Lover is the Beloved' (that's from an ancient text I think maybe Ramon Lull, but not sure).

Paul
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Chotuni
Posted 4/27/2008 6:29 PM (#4769 - in reply to #4646)
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Tracy you've never seen my tail feathers shimmer and shake!??????? ????????
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Tracy Martin
Posted 4/27/2008 6:41 PM (#4771 - in reply to #4205)
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Ha! "A whole lotta shakin' going on!"
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/28/2008 4:40 AM (#4786 - in reply to #4771)
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Must be the Quakers. Or Shakers. And movers.
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/28/2008 10:53 AM (#4796 - in reply to #4205)
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Rose, I agree whole-heartedly with your comment that, "TRUTH is the healer." Nobody is perfect, and in a relationship no person has the right to expect their significant other to be perfect. We all make mistakes and we are all going to mess up! The best that I believe a couple can strive for is to be toatlly honest. This is the ultimate goal. Find someone that you know you can be totally honest with, without fear of judgement. I feel that the most important thing in a relationship is communication. Truth can sometimes get fuzzy when a person isn't truly sure how they feel. Emotions running wild can make it hard to sift through the chaos to find the truth beneath it all. The only thing that will get through all the "noise" is communication. If honesty is a lock, communication is the key to opening it up! Two people must be able to speak openly if they have any hope of creating a stable and long lasting bond. So many are afraid of hurting others, and being judged. If you are with someone and there is something deep that you are afraid to tell them, what better way to develop more trust for that person than by telling them? If they judge you and bounce, then why would you want to be with someone like that? If you tell them, and they are understanding and only serve to decrease your stress rather than add to it, then you can help but feel slighty exhilirated that they stuck around. This in turn is only going to build trust that you can tell them more in the future without fear of jugement. Truth is the healer, it is the ultimate goal, to discover truths, and communication, verbally, physically, mentally and spiritually, are the pathway to that goal.

and to clear any confusion, yes, i am a man lol (which only describes the shell and not the taste of the nut underneath!)
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/28/2008 11:14 AM (#4798 - in reply to #4205)
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Oh yeah, and to try to gear this a little bit back towards dottie's original question, I believe it takes total comfort and trust to truly allow yourself to be naked in front of another. Your clothes may be off, but are you truly naked? When somone makes a mistake and the other person forgives them, they reall must forgive them! Saying it's ok, and then interrogating, questioning, or acting like a jerk is not forgiving. When you forgive somone you must do it sincerely, from your heart. This means never even allowing your trust in them to waiver. If it does, then until it is stable again, you are not ready to forgive. When two people can really connect and communicate 100%, then they are truly allowing each other to see who they are, they are exposing themselves as naked on more than just a physical level. I believe it is these couples who truly expose themselves to one another that can have that soulfull connection Dottie mentioned, but they have it all the time, not just in bed. The other people who hold grudges, lie, cheat, and do not trust each other are always in fear of being hurt themselves. Therefore the are never able to truly allow themselves to be "Naked" which i believe translates into never really allowing themselves to really be "vulnerable." Allowing all your guards to come down with honesty, communication, and openness, and rendering yourself totally vulnerable without fear of being hurt is what allows two people to connect all the time!!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/29/2008 5:41 AM (#4860 - in reply to #4205)
Subject: RE: -----<----@



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Tracy & Chotuni's shaking reminded me of this poem; tracked it in full down on the net (by typing in the first line); though I only ever was aware of the first stanza .... and am not sure whether the second two verses work for me as well, but it might be of Metaphysical interest ....

We are the music-makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.

With wonderful deathless ditties
We build up the world's great cities,
And out of a fabulous story
We fashion an empire's glory:
One man with a dream, at pleasure,
Shall go forth and conquer a crown;
And three with a new song's measure
Can trample an empire down.

We, in the ages lying
In the buried past of the earth,
Built Nineveh with our sighing,
And Babel itself with our mirth;
And o'erthrew them with prophesying
To the old of the new world's worth;
For each age is a dream that is dying,
Or one that is coming to birth.

Ode - Arthur O'Shaughnessy (1844 - 1881)

"so let us make our music and dream our dreams, for without imagination the sun would not rise nor the stars twinkle. and without creation and destruction there would be no ripples in a pond. there is meaning in every leaf, so come look for it with me " (same author, I think)

Re-reading Dottie's original post, I would also add, that where sex is really connected, for me, there has been an evocation of past life, and maybe, future life, threads and streams. How then, to say yes to every past and future life of infinite possibilites and awrenesses and yet remain traditionally loyal in a physical relationship ?
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mruppert
Posted 4/30/2008 1:27 AM (#4878 - in reply to #4205)
Subject: RE: -----<----@



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<We have been taught that the love we crave is "out there." We have thewounds and the loneliness and the judgments and pity of others tobelieve we have failed>----snatched from Tracee

Hi to all:
      We are approaching the fifth day of May, I just hope that it doesn't rain. It would be too much for me!!!!

Peace,
Marty, and Luck and Popp (who knew Isis) and Siss, who only knows me.



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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/30/2008 8:56 AM (#4893 - in reply to #4878)
Subject: RE: -----<----@



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Wondering what the concern is with rain for you on 5th May .... ? It's not St Swithin's Day ... ?!!
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