Search Forums
University Of Metaphysical Sciences
University Of Metaphysical Sciences ->  General Public -> Metaphysics Discussion -> View Thread

You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Free Will
Moderators: Moderators

Jump to page : 1 2 3
Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   General Public -> Metaphysics DiscussionMessage format
 
Supernatural3
Posted 1/10/2008 10:13 AM (#3433 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
I don't see anything as a problem. I do see everything being a choice. Everyone can indeed create a world (space/time) to be heaven or hell as a frame of thought. For thought creates everything. At least mine does.... for i do not know of anything, until i think it to be... then it exists for me. I can think good, bad or neutral on anything and everyone. So yes, i see the three choices.

As far as hell.... i don't believe in such a place, being forced. But i believe it to be lack of light / love. Or willing oneself to not accept love in their existence. That to me, would be hell.

Each of us has our own perspective... all are valued. Much of it makes a lot of sense. But i still stick to my own views being accurate for me. I cannot force one to see through my own eyes, but i describe what i see the best i can.

Blessings~


Edited by Supernatural3 1/10/2008 10:14 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/10/2008 2:32 PM (#3434 - in reply to #3433)
Subject: RE: Free Will


You are of course right that we individually have/get our own ways of both seeing and expressing whatever. The point I am trying to make is though that it is our 'certainties' that takes our free will away - because we are not 'naturally' hardwired to challenge them, generally speaking of course.

However, if we never did, we would still be at the stone age, grunting and being slammed in our heads, or slamming others in theirs as a token of affection...

It's somehow when we dare to question our most certain truths that things MAY start to happen, isn't it?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Omjah
Posted 1/10/2008 5:21 PM (#3435 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will


UMS Guest

Posts: 29
25
Location: In the One
I have heard that before we are born we have a discussion with our soul group, guides, masters, angels about what would we would like to learn and experience in the next life. There is a book out called "Journey of Souls" which gives more specific information which I have not read. So the idea that we may simultaneously have free will and not have free will appeals to me especially considering how dualistic our experience of life seems to be. So, perhaps we choose some pretty tough challenges before birth and those are what we have not much choice about once we are born. We can see how even infants express different characteristics, natural (or chosen before birth) expressions of personality qualities already showing before the training and molding of life experiences. I would be interested in hearing about the idea that we chose certain qualities, perhaps we chose our parents, our birthplaces,etc. before forgetting all about it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Tracy
Posted 1/10/2008 5:42 PM (#3436 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Student

Posts: 74
2525
Location: CA
I have learned that I have denied my power, abdicated my responsibility to make empowering choices for myself, and have walked like a sleeper enthralled by a dream of victimization. In this state of existence I have denied my ability to make my own choices. Now I am on a path that releases my power from my repressed and hidden shadow, bringing a new balance, harmony and passion to my life. It is easy to sleep. It takes vigilance, focus, and heart opening to make choices, to break past the habitual, to investigate one's self, and trust the unknown. We are creative beings, we choose how to express that.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/10/2008 7:51 PM (#3437 - in reply to #3435)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Omjah, what we have discussed is though as if it is a fact that we definitely have eternal life, and that reincarnation is a valid explanation model, and your question sort of requires the proof of that that is the case.

There is a less nice explanation to the idea, and a nicer one too.

The problem with the whole concept of reincarnation is that there must be a kind of bearer of the 'awareness da jour' if that is the case. An awareness to which we are hosts or 'horses'. What do 'I' become at the other side? A new jokey for some new 'I' not yet born, or 'cattle' for whatever purpose? (just as examples). Since we obviously are unique into the core of our respective awareness, it is unlikely that we in such a case are from the same source as each new reincarnation would add more diversity than common treats, even though it is of course possible. But where does the earlier 'I's' reside when we reincarnate if they are not unique individual awarenesses in their own merit - are they going into hibernation? In any case a system like that is an elitist one by default, or at best a 'line standing - 'wait on your turn'' one.

Ok, that was the less nice scenarios to ponder over.

The nicer one is that we all are 'snippets' from the same awareness - Spirit, with a capital S if one want - where we bring with us memories from earlier snippets from the same source, or all awarenesses before us, but where the inner 'channels' are differently opened, giving us different talents and interests - and that we are returning to the same Spirit when we die, with our full harvest of experiences.

According to the linguistic research we are born with all languages but that we actually are learning away (in effect limiting ourselves), the sounds we aren't conditioned with. Is it strange that kids from affluent families have a better chance to 'make it' in later life, and that surprisingly many are following in their parents foot print? Whatever upbringing we have had, it has been a process of limiting our minds.....just in the same way our grand parents were conditioning our parents, and then they and we are spending the rest of our lives in search for the right buttons to open ourselves back up, if we are lucky enough to not having become totally brain washed.

And a child shall lead them [to salvation and the kingdom of God], as Paul has written that Jesus said, but 'a child to follow' comes through in all religions and myths, and they always seem to be such great guides saving the person who they are helping. Think of it, they always do.

"them" could as well has been be 'you', with a simple translation error or a blob of fig jam at the pergament used, which in turn could be us, or each and everyone of us now, almost 2000 years later.

Which is the ONLY child one would consider to lead oneself regarding ones total life? Ones owns inner one, isn't it? The only difference, except for the skills developed for this world, between oneself and the child one once was is the conditionings that has been applied and that we have added on ourselves. Kids don't care what faiths their friends at the park belong to, they happily walk up to a drunkard and hug him/her, they do so many 'stupid' things as every parent know....don't they, until we have taught them to judge others, then they start to fall in line, and become occasionally pretty mean to their fiends too.

We are back at the inward route for development and growth of breaking down our conditionings and thereby limitations, and, as I see it, we have very little free will until we have managed to do so.

Edited by Spiritualfun 1/10/2008 7:53 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mruppert
Posted 1/10/2008 10:32 PM (#3438 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



10005001001001001002525
Hi all:
     OMG....there is so much here that I need to take notes!
     But, just a couple of things about "pespective"in looking at this, and any other endeavor in learning.
     I think it was Doc who mentioned something about "brain size." Neanderthals (as evidence indicates) had as big, or bigger brains as does Homo Sapiensae. Yet, we are around to comment on that fact, and they are not. We try to explain why they are not, and we come up with some fairly good reasons, but, the reasons may be no more valid than if I said that some aliens came and exterminated them so that we might flourish, as we are the children of the aliens. We can make educated guesses, but we cannot know.
     Someone else commented that we live longer than we did in the past. But, our life expectancy has NOT remarkably increased over those in the past, when you factor in the mode and manner of living of those in the past, and the radical advances in technology (in re health) that we now enjoy. The net result is not really significant in difference. As a matter of fact, since there was an opportunity to be "cloistered" in the past, those that chose this avenue, generally lived longer than our average life expectancy.
     It is all how you look at "it" and the "it" is always what is the question.

Peace and regards to all,
Marty and Nine Live Cats

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/10/2008 11:10 PM (#3439 - in reply to #3438)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
LOL, Silly Marty, you crack me up. I was trying to explain that being human, our brains are limited to less superior intelligence, in it's physical form. Had nothing to do with size of the brain.... but i was commenting on our skulls, keeping the brain contained. That was my attempt to explain how i see it, for being stuck, limited and programmed while human. We are so programmed, that alone will stop us from our full potential. Some of us do get lucky, and are able to go beyond our human self... but it's rare.

I know for my own fact there is life after death, that is intelligent. We keep our individualism, to a degree. I know because i have been shown this..... Or i am crazy. It does not matter to me, as i said, if others believe me or not. I know... and I'll take it.

As far as free will.... Heck, i don't even know where this topic is going to anymore. There is so much said, that it's all blended into a huge HUH? Now i tilt my head slightly diagonal, like a puppy and move on to a new bone to pick.

YES, I believe we have free will. That is what base my entire house healing course on, which works on helping ghosts leave this realm. It's been their choice to stay, it's their choice to leave. I have seen it over and over..... Tis all I know.....It works.

Peace and see ya all in a different topic.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/10/2008 11:36 PM (#3440 - in reply to #3438)
Subject: RE: Free Will


mruppert - 2008-01-11 3:32 AM

The net result is not really significant in difference. As a matter of fact, since there was an opportunity to be "cloistered" in the past, those that chose this avenue, generally lived longer than our average life expectancy. "

The big difference is that they now live at life expectancy for the total population in developed countries, while the rest have tripled theirs. No hard work, relatively clean environments, no stress (unless they were locked in into it), balanced food and plenty of time for reflection. Of course they lived relatively long, but the slightest sepsis or any day to day disease killed them directly, and they more often than not developed gout and such diseases. Our memories are short, but it wasn't until during WWII antibiotics was invented and no more than 160 years ago Semmelweiss understood the relationship between hygiene and diseases. And, it's a huge difference that a minute part of the population could survive while the majority died as flies.

In the geriatric research done on longevity they have found only one common denominator outside of that really long lifespans runs in families, i.e. it is genetic, and that is that those becoming 100 - 120 plus years don't mentally pile up on old crap. They let go of the bad and goes forward - forgive and live, one can say, regardless if they are forgiving themselves or others. They constantly clean their mental attics and garages, could be another analogy, I would say.

But then again, I have known very mature people who have lived full lives in their '40s when they passed over (too early of course, but without leaving behind the intense sadness one otherwise feel when younger people leave us) , and I know people in their '80s that hasn't understood much about anything yet, so longevity is somehow a relative thing too, depending on how the time has been spent, I believe. From that point of view I am personally not looking forward to a too long life, as I am not much for the fine tuning and trimming which is what old age mainly seem to offer.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 12:00 AM (#3441 - in reply to #3439)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Ha, there you have it, Jill.

First though, I fully believe you as I have been there and been shown it too, when I was in my own kind of 'near death experience'.

'Ghost' has the capacity to free will, but only if they haven't been trapped in the layer in between from fear - the ones that die 'in the step' (violent and sudden deaths) and actually believe they are still alive - they need help from people with your ability and sensitivity to dare to pass over fully - they only get the free will from the understanding they can get from this side by people like you, as they don't trust the voices from the other side - I was told.

We, humans, has a very limited free will because we are more or less programmed to not have any.

I think we are in full agreement on the free will part now - but the rest is really linked to it too.

Ta da: You are writing that individualism is preserved TO A DEGREE. That become the natural effect of lowering ones ego on this side too, among others doing the same - becoming one, and yet not.

Whoa, how great isn't it to communicate and to share ones experiences....

Edited by Spiritualfun 1/11/2008 12:14 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mruppert
Posted 1/11/2008 12:17 AM (#3442 - in reply to #3439)
Subject: RE: Free Will



10005001001001001002525
Hi DocJilly:
     Yeah, crazy like a fox! I knew you knew!!
      I agree with you, there is life....as there is no death, except to leave the vessel we occupy at this movement in time. Though I won't call you DocJ, and you won't know me as Marty, we shall still be intrinsically ourselves; selves which we have been, are, and will be.
      I am interested in your house healing.Being off from work, since we are still on winter break, I have had a chance to watch some television, and saw a couple of shows....one is Paranormal something...kids at Penn State University...and the other is Ghosthunters. What do you think, Doc?
      I am highly skeptical of these shows, maybe because the father of them, the Brit show with David Acora, was exposed to have faked many of the sequences that were supposedly live. I am waiting for Ghosthunters International to go to Romania...they have been to England and Scotland, and next week, go to Italy. But, I know Romania very well, and I know where they are going. I am very curious as to what they "think" they will see!
     
Peace and Ghostly Luv,
Marty and Clairvoyant Cats
     
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mruppert
Posted 1/11/2008 1:59 AM (#3443 - in reply to #3440)
Subject: RE: Free Will



10005001001001001002525
Hi SpiritFunster:
     All I ask is that you rethink what you said in light of what, say, 11th thru 16th century people did, and how long they lived. We cannot compare infant mortality rates, since they did not keep records of births in quite the way we do, if at all. We "intuit" these things, based on populations.
     Plus, you have emphasized my point..yes, any health related dysfunction, no matter how minor would most likely be fatal, until a certain point in time...the time of the blending of metaphysics and science...generally around the end part of the 16th century (late 1500's) and continuing into the 18th century (1700's). The 19th century (1800's) was a mixture of advances and setbacks, as this was the rise of industrialism....which would have the most profound and lasting effect on us, health and longevitywise.
     Think about this, SFun, if you were to be transported back to the year 1001, you would have trouble breathing....you would feel lightheaded and strange! Though you are "around and about" you are used to breathing our air...air which is so pollluted with things that we can measure, (but not know the long term effects) that the purer air of the 1000's would be as if you were in an oxygen tent. I dare say, and only surmise, that a person from the 1000's would most likely find a great difficulty breathing even our most pristine air, as fouled as it is.
     Your second interesting observation is that longevity is genetic. Yes, you are completely right! Whether they pile up "old crap" or not, they are predispositioned to live longer than most. But, I am not really worried by the "old crap" as the operative word is "genetic". These blessed people live because of gene strands, passed on in procreation, sometimes recessive for many generations. But, if you do the simple Mendal box, you will see how it oftentimes works out.
      The concept that one individual might have the power of healing another; that one individual might have the power of sight, is almost unilaterally connected to forebears. I grant you that there are instances of spontaneous acquisition and demonstration of these powers, but most of these are clothed in context of some religion or other such spiritual belief, where there is verification, either by positive reinforcement or negative rejection...which, by the way, only serves to strengthen a "new" belief.
     Just as you said longevity is genetic; healing and sightedness is also genetic. That is why I still say, you cannot buy a book or take a course and become a healer, a "true' healer. Now, before everybody gets really upset, I AM NOT  saying that one cannot do a world of good for people, by studying and applying certain techniques...that is not what I am talking about.
     My hero, who has been named "Dynamo Jack" by the YouTube generation, set the newspaper on fire by understanding the nature, and utilizing,  chakra energies. He "learned" this. Never mind the YouTube stuff, go back to the original tapes called "Ring of Fire, An Indonesian Odyssey." He sets the newspaper on fire.....and heals one of the Blair brothers.
     My beloved Research Associate also heals people, and she tells me constantly how she used REIKI technique or matrix energetics or quantum touch. When we first started our study, some three years ago, I believed that. As we dug deeper into projects that we were collaborating on, I asked her if she has a "family" history of healing. She replied that her mother and her aunt and her grandmother on an on all had this unique ability.
     One evening, after some glasses of wine (we are doing this long distance by the way, as I am in the USA and she is in GB, but still in vino est veritas) I asked her if it really mattered what technique she used.....and her answer was "no, but it gives me focus for the energy that I can pass on." In essence, she spent thousands of pounds for what she all ready had!!!!!
     I am rambling, but have been preforgiven by another poster, I think it was the great DoctorJ.....my final thought is that "old age" is a concept.....as applied by those that are contemporaneous with us/me? SpiritFun,
<From that point of view I am personally not looking forward to a toolong life, as I am not much for the fine tuning and trimming which iswhat old age mainly seem to offer.>
     WHY? Why do you say this? Each new day, week, month, year, offers new opportunities to blossum and revitalize. And, to learn just a little, tiny bit more of why you and I and all are here, and what we truly seek. The concept of most that there is a decline....but I believe that there is an ascent, and we shall continue until we reach the apex. Whereupon, we launch ourselves skyward (metaphorically and practically).
Peace, hope, and luv,
Marty and Eternal Cats
    
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mruppert
Posted 1/11/2008 3:34 AM (#3445 - in reply to #3441)
Subject: RE: Free Will



10005001001001001002525
Hi Spitfun,
     We humans have all the free will we want, but we "societal" humans have virtually none. The compact we make to have "society" immediately subjugates free will to norms and mores.
In this, I agree with you.
     When it is the will of the majority of those that compose the society, at least it is democratic, but that is not always a good, or virtuous thing. Democracy is what it is, the rule of the majority.
      When the democratic process becomes institutionalized, there is a degree of control, that becomes more and more invasive, yet subliminal.
      Try to imagine a time when a presidential candidate came to your town ( if you are in the USA ) and spoke to YOU, to try to win your vote. This doesn't happen anymore, we have "electronic" campaigning via television, i.e, we don't see the hundreds of people that candidates speak to in the "primaries"...we only see video bits of the best of the best.
      Should we really care how people 'would" vote in Iowa? NO!
All I want them to do is to grow better corn, because I like to eat all kinds of corn..corn on the cob, creamed corn, white corn, golden kernel. Should we really care how people "would" vote in New Hampshire? NO! All I want them to do is to do whatever it is that they do, which is nothing I can think of, though I am sure that they do something.
      HENCE, you see the "programming" that you refer to in many aspects now. I am programmed just as any others...and many others. It is simply because I do "care' that people succumb to this nonsense.
     Okay, the rant is over.......Spirit...what did you see as a NDE?
      Why do you think that "ghosts" have  free will but  should obey your directive to go where they may not want to go? Might they be telling us that it ain't so good to go wherever they are supposed to? Why would you want to force them to do what they clearly do not want to do?
Peace n' luv,
Marty and Ghoulish Cats, dead many times!
     
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 5:05 AM (#3446 - in reply to #3443)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Thanks for the answer on your studies. I completely understand your British friend. It really doesn't matter how it is done. I understood I had a pretty strong healing ability by accident, and as an old atheist, after already long ago have read most of the religious major scriptures of the world, so I came into it from another angle than what maybe most have.

When it started, and I had overcome the initial chock, I tried out all kind of mediums and healers, as research, but I refrained from reading anything, of the simple reason that I didn't want to lock myself up, mind wise. However, some of these I tried out had a natural 'air' about their procedures which I felt 'was right for me' so I tried to take after them in my initial trial and error efforts. There is no known individual in my family history with any healing abilities (if my engineer business manager father who was fantastic in putting on band aids and taking care of our minor ailments, and my mother being a dentist taking care of the more serious ones - sewing us kids up when having cut ourselves etcetera - doesn't count).

It was very odd for me initially, but I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the courage to accept this inbuilt capacity. That I can say from the 60 percent I have seen being able to do it themselves of all the ones I by now have instructed. I am sure that I within 10 minutes would be able to instruct you too. Having any of the other sensitivities is a sure bet that anyone is a natural healer too, and simple stuff as muscle strains is a piece of cake to teach others to heal.

When I re-read all these scriptures, after my trip, but now with new eyes, I saw that everyone of them are describing these abilities within us, and essentially they are all saying the same thing. Whatever the names on their own deity are, we can find it within - by exploring our hidden resources - but the language really becomes a problem if one get stuck with one particular such 'school'. That I have learned when I lately have started to read up on the many 'spiritual/psychic schools' around. Also I am using a kind of adjusted Reiki methodology, and would because of the home made turns probably get into problem if I would aspire to get 'licensed' at the different Master levels they have. But that is I, and for me all such structuring is about 'crossing the stream to fetch water' and systems of seclusion, but then I have on the other hand no intent to make this my business either (unless maybe writing a book about it later - 'Psychic resources in the skeptic dummies', or something like it - but that I can do when having retired and if nothing more fun turns up).

Now, when the novelty of it has worn off, I help people who ask me, and I really don't back off for any such request, however serious disease anyone may have (but of course I tell them to seek a medical diagnosis and proper health care if they don't have already done so - it goes hand in hand). The only strange thing is that the diseases I am really sure I can really help a lot of people with hasn't come my way yet - but I guess there is a reason for that too.

I have seen the movies about Dynamo Jack too, and he is surely something. Of course, we have more or less of these abilities naturally, but in its 'raw' form we can all find it, if just accepting the change of mind that is necessary. That I have seen so many times now, and it really is just a matter of 'attitude' toward the phenomenas as such.

LONGEVITY:

The research I have read is clear. Genetics is important, but not enough for the ones reaching 100 plus.

At least the Scandinavian countries has very well documented church records on its citizens since the '1200s, as the church was the main tax collector there. Actually was the middle ages not bad at all in Europe. It was warm climates with a lot of wine growing both in Britain and Scandinavia, good harvests of all kinds and comparable little warfare up until the early '1400s in most of Europe, and the black plague was around for only a few years (most written documentation found are actually love poems and ballads, which is pretty telling I think). From the mid '1500s it got worse. The little ice age started (with a lot of paintings as south as in Italy of people skating on the frozen rivers), and most of Europe was more or less in constant wars until the end of the Napoleonic wars in the early '1800s, after which the Europeans really started to export its power play and bullying over the world. In the mid '1800s the potato plague, which started in Ireland almost wiped out the major parts of Northern Europe, at which the huge emigration to North America started - Freedom of Religion, being a bonus in most peoples decisions to leave. However from there on the number of births of super olds has escalated sharply:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#Oldest_people_ever_.2811...

Interestingly is that one needs to go to the Old Testament to find anything distinctive about old age earlier - Methusalem becoming 900 + years etcetera, etcetera, etctera. They are of course mythical, but I have started to think if it maybe is a translation error, just as '6 eons' has been translated into '6 days'. The old Hebrew word for anything that was 'uncountable' was 'an eon', with regards to time it would then maybe be 'ages'. (much later an eon has become to be the number 10.000) I have no clue here, but potentially is the OT describing the first humanoids and their relative life spans, as races instead of individuals??? It's probably wrong, but I like the idea.

Have Sun!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/11/2008 8:28 AM (#3447 - in reply to #3442)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio

Hey Marty,
Weird.... I was just asked this by another dear friend too. So i will try to be honest, with out hurting feelings of those who may stumble upon this section (if they happen to be in the shows).

Paranormal State is filled with Drama. They hype it up and throw a bunch of sounds to freak out the viewer, but they call a lot of things evil and demonic. They base things on the two main concepts of religion and well.....for us non religious people..... It's unrealistic and it's not really like it is when your in the field doing it. While i personally got to know one of the people in the cast and in real life Chip Coffey IS a very talented Psychic / Medium. He is a truly wonderful person i had him on my show. It's acting, yet they do use real people, who do this for a hobby. So I cannot say the show is totally rotten. I have only watched it once and couldn't stand that they were scaring the crap out of viewers, making them "think" that such demons exist everywhere, when it simply just isn't the case. They want ratings though... so you cannot blame them for adding the spice.

Ghost Hunters is the closest to real you can get on TV. Jason and Grant will try to honestly debunk everything, and that is truly what it takes. They took out the drama and do not fake anything that i know of. Grant has been ghost hunting for 14 years and Jason has 16 years experience under his belt (i fall exactly in between the two). But what i do like about their show is the drama that is added, is real life stuff. It's not religious, it remains pretty neutral. The music...well.... sci-fi has to add some kind of whistles and bells. But lets face it... Paranormal Investigating is a very long, and sometimes very boring thing to do. We walk around in the dark, and shoot footage that is most the time it's of nothing. LOL Going over the footage takes enormous amounts of time. At least in Ghost hunters, they skip all the time involved, but they keep it real.

Most Haunted.... I cannot stand to watch it. It's completely faked in my own opinion. It is so filled with drama and BS that i cannot tolerate watching it. Unless it's for comical reasons. I do not know the cast at all and i refuse to watch someone fake being possessed each and every time they are somewhere. It's comical....

Marty, if you email me direct, i will send you my Thesis on the House Healing for Ghost Hunters. I call it that, but anyone can do it. It really helps to be Reiki attuned, (for the knowledge of Life Force Energy, and how to channel it). Best of all.... it works. -Or, i have convinced the members of the house that it works??? i did use 3 main factors of NLP. One ups(my experience), Paradigm (course), and FEELING it (sage smoke, holding hands, giving healing love). It's amazing to really put NLP to work. Convincing those who have experienced ghosts nightly to not experience it anymore, or did I convince the ghost that they were able to move on... I do actualyl talk to the ghost while i am there, and use my healing energy on them, and since i cannot know 100% if they hear me, I generalize it towards the entire home. However, they sleep at night now, and that didn't happen from the moment they bought their home. I did base this entire course on FREE WILL. and yes.... i do believe that we can as well as ghosts can get stuck in a state of confusion, that will keep them trapped in a lower realm. But this doesn't mean they wouldn't eventually move on with out me. It's only us that experiences time. (that i know of).

I think we are all coming to the same conclusion in this topic.
I hope this helps
Love and Light~
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 8:41 AM (#3448 - in reply to #3445)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Why do you think that "ghosts" have free will but should obey your directive to go where they may not want to go? Might they be telling us that it ain't so good to go wherever they are supposed to? Why would you want to force them to do what they clearly do not want to do?


I didn't say that. but take it for what it is, but as I understood it this is how it somehow works:

Some, I don't know the ratio but all in all not comparably many, appearently get stuck on their way, because they don't understand they are dead, ending in a state of mental limbo, not understanding the transformation is underway, just that something has happened with them. Appearently fully passed over souls can make their way into this gray zone too, but out of fear the former ones climb to what they know best, which is this side. They need the supportive words from the ones that can communicate with them from this side to dare to let go, and pass over fully.

I can't vouch for that this is right, but it is what I have been shown, and that part of my 'trip' wasn't explained very much in detail, hence one of the reasons for why I am here to try to find the bits and pieces that are missing. I was primely shown the functionalities around healing, and how we energy wise are linked with the 'central unit' of the spirit, and that we all has all answers we need within us. It started with me seeing my body becoming dissolved into billions of energy quanta, at which I was sure I was dying, and then the trip through the universe, with a guide who didn't present himself (I believe it was a 'him'), telling me how most things work and are related in bigger picture way. Everything was extremely well ordered, and I was even putting forward some questions, especially about my mother who was seriously ill (at which the guide explained that she was too old and naturally weak to be able to fully reverse her 'decaying' body into former shape - but that it would be able to make her feel much better), but nothing else was really presented into detail. I understood there is a Creator, that everything in our universe exist within it (but I got the idea that It was somehow indifferent to the earth and us specifically - we are more like a small small piece in a bigger machinery), that Its thought of our universe was the big bang (plans, rules and Laws of Nature etcetera) and that everything is about energy and the way energy is interacting - everything is woven of light in different densities and shapes and with different properties accordingly. That the setup is copied downward and upward, just as Russian dolls are stacked within each other and that everything has to do with opposites, conditionings, memory, codependence and cooperation. That we screw things up with our fear filled egos and because we are letting our memories to be filled with unnecessary old crap (that take up capacity from the natural inner healing energies, causing bottle necks for the nightly maintenance our brains are set to do), that the way out of the fear and conditionings is through forgiveness etcetera etcetera. It took maybe 30 - 40 minutes during which I was only very faintly aware of the sound from the TV-set, and that my love was sitting up in bed beside me.

When I came back into my body I got a bit crossed that the person I knew so well didn't even notice that I had been 'dead' [ ;-) ] but then I decided that I must had been hallucinating it all from being so tired and drained.

The day after I called my mother at her hospice (she hadn't been out of her bed for a month, due to a full fledge skeleton cancer, and the doctors talked about maybe two more weeks for her to live, but she greeted me with that she had been up and walking several times in the morning and that she had realized that one die when one is deciding oneself to do so - and that she had decided to not die yet - she lived another six months, perfectly clear until about a week before she passed over). A couple of hours later I accidentally got reason to attend to a person who had a huge fresh burn over the lower arm from boiling water, and of some reason I asked if I could try my hand instead of the regular water and ice remedy, and within 15 minutes all of the red and half of the growing blister was gone.... I was like a wet rug though, and became a bit chocked when what I had been experienced started to sink in.

Obviously wasn't it a hallucination, and my world turned up side down, I must say, and I started to re-read the different scriptures while clumsily trying this new ability - initially feeling really stupid every time I tried, but somehow it just came to me what I was supposed to do.

I don't have the kind of medium sensitivity myself naturally, seeing dead people, unless for a few times when I have been able to connect with a few of my close relatives, such as my parents -my mother coming through somehow telling how it works, but otherwise not at all so that I can see or hear any 'ghosts'. Once I have been the target for a practical joke by one. I was fooled to walk up in the middle of the night believing that it was time to go up - I walked down to make breakfast for the kids, enough morning sounds from their rooms and bathroom for me to not having to wake them up, or questioning anything until I was almost ready with the breakfast and I realized it was 3 a clock in the morning - The kids were of course sound asleep when I checked on them. I got totally fooled, and I am soo sure I heard both my own alarm clock and the kind of noise the kids are doing in the morning when dressing. But who it was, and why, I have absolutely no idea about.

One thing I really just must point out though - this isn't a specific gift for me - it's a misused capacity we all harbor. And it is somehow so simple to access that even the least probable person to access it should be able to do it. That stood also extremely clear from the tour. There is no need for any special practices or prayers or religious over tones - one just need to relax enough to let oneself into a state of extra sensitivity, and to have faith in that 'one actually can' - that's it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/11/2008 8:47 AM (#3449 - in reply to #3441)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
Spiritualfun - 2008-01-11 12:00 AM

Ha, there you have it, Jill.

First though, I fully believe you as I have been there and been shown it too, when I was in my own kind of 'near death experience'.

'Ghost' has the capacity to free will, but only if they haven't been trapped in the layer in between from fear - the ones that die 'in the step' (violent and sudden deaths) and actually believe they are still alive - they need help from people with your ability and sensitivity to dare to pass over fully - they only get the free will from the understanding they can get from this side by people like you, as they don't trust the voices from the other side - I was told.

We, humans, has a very limited free will because we are more or less programmed to not have any.

I think we are in full agreement on the free will part now - but the rest is really linked to it too.

Ta da: You are writing that individualism is preserved TO A DEGREE. That become the natural effect of lowering ones ego on this side too, among others doing the same - becoming one, and yet not.

Whoa, how great isn't it to communicate and to share ones experiences....


Hey Spiritualfun,
I couldn't agree more. Yes, somehow we do keep our individualism. I thought prior that when we crossed, we ended up in some blender and we were all mixed together again, as one source. But it's not really the case. We may be all connected somehow, but we do have separate thought. At least everytime i channel my guides, or others, they have personalities. I don't really sense much EGO, just always pretty charming. But that is the higher realm. The lower realm is filled with EGO and is very materialistic still, guess it takes a while to adjust. The higher the realm of spirit, the more inteligence is there. The lower, the more confused and blocked. That is what i gather from talking with my guides.

My own channeling session:

After my mother in-laws passing two weeks ago, i was still able to directly communicate with her two days before her funeral. I even seen how she looked (or decided to present herself to me). She was radiant, and younger, She was being kept busy on purpose. She knew this as she explained it to me. "They were keeping her detained at least until her funeral, because it's therapeutic". It was so weird to me to see that they were having a party on the other side, like a welcome back "graduation" party. She was loved by many, the room was filled with many. The others wouldn't come into my space (my waiting area or safe zone) for the two sides to meet and communicate, but they did keep popping their heads in to check on her. She did however tell me a few names that i didn't know. 5 of them to be exact. All 5, my husband knew. I did not. These were not typical names either. It was more like odd names that i actually felt silly saying, but he knew them right away.

Love each other, it heals~


Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 9:46 AM (#3450 - in reply to #3449)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Jill: "The lower realm is filled with EGO and is very materialistic still, guess it takes a while to adjust. The higher the realm of spirit, the more inteligence is there. The lower, the more confused and blocked. That is what i gather from talking with my guides."

Do I read "ego, materalistic, confused, blocked'? They are all reactions of fear. The new way I am looking at such people is amazingly non-aggevating. I just see it and never need to attack their fears with my own anymore - as it it just causes another unnecessary fight. That is the best upside, even though I have never been an aggressive person - but somewhat assertive and stubborn over the rim, which essentially is the same thing.

But releasing ones fears are sometimes pure hell too, so all in all I very often wonder if this change of things hasn't been a curse rather than a blessing, at least for me. It would have been much better if George Bush had got this type of experience instead of me - one thing is for sure, violence never pays. Re-evaluating everything that ones was stable and comforting isn't fun, but once on the road one really has no way of turning back and forget about it all.

Have Sun!
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/11/2008 9:53 AM (#3451 - in reply to #3448)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
Spiritualfun - 2008-01-11 8:41 AM

Why do you think that "ghosts" have free will but should obey your directive to go where they may not want to go? Might they be telling us that it ain't so good to go wherever they are supposed to? Why would you want to force them to do what they clearly do not want to do?


I personally do not force anything to go anywhere.... all i do is heal them. Once they are healed, we simply let them know they can stay or go, as they always have been able to. Most the time, when healed... the confusion stops and they have no desire to stay in the rut they were previously experiencing. I make no promised, because it's never been my choice. I just heal, and they do the rest. Make sense? Not once would i ever say... HEY GHOST, you must LEAVE NOW! I might say, HEY ________ (if i know their name, i will use it) you've been being naughty... why? I may ask them to have some respect for the current owners, as we will respect their wishes to stay or go. I always say they are welcome to stay, for the homeowners would love that, but also just want some rest.... please help too.


Spiritualfun, your story is great. Seems you have been called upon to heal. How wonderful~ I too always feel like an idiot when i get my info, or heal things. I always expect people to think i am a nut case, or full of crap. But then, somehow... it works. AMAZING.... even i am amazed. I then say... it's my guides... they did it. I don't even take credit, i am just a vessel.

I do not communicate with ghosts very well... i communicate with higher spirits. My mother in law was not a ghost, she had already left earths realm, i had to go to her. But my grandfather did come to me in the flesh, but not as a ghost either, he had already changed. I do however let my channel guides communicate with the lower realm. It's like my line of communication is higher than that of a ghosts line of communication. Only sometimes do i get to actually interact, but it's rare. I don't see ghosts... i can feel or sense them only. I have seen them before, which is why i am a firm believer. But, they rarely talk direct, but somehow, communication and interaction does take place, because it works.

I know exactly what you are talking about, it's crazy and amazing at once.
Blessings~



Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 10:09 AM (#3452 - in reply to #3451)
Subject: RE: Free Will


You answered Martin in the first paragraph, taking his line from my post - just for the record if you missed my clumsy attempt to 'quote'.

I envy everyone having a guide. It was terribly nice to be guided, even if I couldn't see 'him', but after the tour I, except for once when the same kind of presence was felt, haven't 'had' any such support - even though I have asked for one to become more instructive.

Jill, don't you agree that it really only is about ones 'attitude'?

From there, having seen it work enough times and it become as natural as seeing or hearing - and physical too, even if it is a constant learning process to trim ones efforts, and to trial and error a lot too.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/11/2008 12:39 PM (#3453 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
There have been so many posts.... he he..... that i now can barely remember who said what, with out going back through them all, while trying to remember. NAW.... I think we all have the same conclusion. Hmmmm YEP!

I sometimes feel lost too... or left alone. But then i give a swift kick in the butt of my guide (mentally) and say... c'mon, your slacking... get with it and gimme a hug. LOL They do have senses of humor... they have to.... they deal with me.

I always swore that my guides must be getting bonus points for my case. HA HA HA

I hope they are laughing too... I think so~

It's all good

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/11/2008 5:52 PM (#3454 - in reply to #3451)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Jill: "Seems you have been called upon to heal."

I am not longer so sure that is the case, Jill. If so I would probably be less aware of the 'technology' involved and not having such an easy time to 'diagnose' rather than to heal, AND (which I start to understand) having such ease in 'passing it on' to others, physically passing it on, that is.

I'm never going to be a Dynamo Jack character in the healing business (it doesn't appeal a bit to me, and I am far too lazy and comfortable), but I could very possible become a kick starter and a coach of many others who have the drive to make it their life vocation. I have been working as a personal self development coach for business people for nearly 20 years, so that kind of a role is certainly not new to me.

I knew the discussions in here would lead to something positive. THANK YOU, Jill, from the bottom of my heart! You have just made me see a very important piece of my puzzle, that make so many others fall in place too. And yet I had it in front of my eyes all of the time. Isn't that amazing - now I just need to finance it or to find a platform to work from.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Supernatural3
Posted 1/12/2008 10:39 AM (#3455 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1668
10005001002525
Location: NE Ohio
You are very welcome...and Thank you, too. these forums have helped my eyes and mind to open far more than i expected as well.

Many blessings~
Top of the page Bottom of the page
mruppert
Posted 1/13/2008 1:11 AM (#3458 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



10005001001001001002525
Hi all:
     Jilly, I will pm you in a sec....
     Spirity.....you are marvelous!
     I, too, have gotten lost in this forum. There is so much to read and think about. Aquarius embraced the idea I had about a recounting of the historical aspects of the concept of free will. This is something that I would love to undertake. But, there is so little time; and it would take some figuring out how to structure it, as it would most likely take on the same form as this forum. Any suggestions?

Peace and Love,
Marty and Sun worshipping Cats
(In the winter months, the sun comes in through my small window in my bedroom....the cats have a place on the carpet that they sleep because the sun hits that spot directly. Cats are generally aware of things even when sleeping, but not so when they are lying in the sun....they are a trillion miles away from the reality of what is going on around them).
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Spiritualfun
Posted 1/13/2008 11:25 AM (#3459 - in reply to #3458)
Subject: RE: Free Will


Martin: "Spirity.....you are marvelous! "

Thank you, Martin, it always nice to be seen, but I am no more so than most. Just lucky this spiritual roller coaster didn't made me go crazy from the confusion I first experienced. I learned to realize what the word 'reborn' really mean. It doesn't have a yota with religion to do, it's about landing on ones feet within a new expanded world view - independently if such a view is correct or not. My sense of adventure is what made me start to explore this for me new side of life and its landscapes, really only having the tools to navigate safely in this part of it. After the first highs I realized that it must be pretty much the same ones in that part as in this, except the active focus to take out ones inner fears to become able to subject oneself to the 'new' sensations - nothing else really makes any sense, at least not for me who just can't subscribe to any particular faith or 'established' belief system (thereby not saying they couldn't be great for others).

The development of belief systems are somehow much more an effect of pedagogic problems than anything that has anything with the core traits and values of humankind as such to do. We need to learn much more about ourselves, generally, individually and holistically before being able to create a somewhat pertinent model for our lives and potential 'bigger' purpose - that's what I believe.

In the mean time.....Have Sun!

Edited by Spiritualfun 1/13/2008 11:30 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Aquarius
Posted 1/13/2008 1:32 PM (#3460 - in reply to #3270)
Subject: RE: Free Will



UMS Guest

Posts: 1932
100050010010010010025
Location: United Kingdom

'Jill: "Seems you have been called upon to heal."' 'I am not longer so sure that is the case, Jill.'

Dear Jill and Spiritualfun - the way I see it, we're all in this world now to to be healed and - through it - become healers in our own right. With love - Aquarius

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1 2 3
Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

(Delete all cookies set by this site)
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software
© 2002-2016 PD9 Software