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The Problem of Evil
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Tamara
Posted 4/13/2007 11:27 AM (#1698 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil


Tracy Martin - 2007-04-04 5:36 PM

What is evil? Is it real? Are there 'highly evolved' spiritual beings who have malevolent intentions towards humanity?


UU's welcome all spiritual paths and anyone willing to agree to the principles of UUism (which for most of us are pretty much a no-brainer) http://www.uua.org/visitors/6798.shtml UUs mindfully and consciously join together to support each other in pursuing each individual's spiritual path, and provide a liberal and supportive community for everyone who cares to join in. In fact, one of the differences of UUism as opposed to many other "organized religions" is that instead of claiming to have the answer, UUs consider themselves seekers and explorers.

Having said that, the concept of Evil becomes pretty elusive without a specific religious or scientific framework to define it. So, with such diversity, it becomes tricky to find something that everyone can agree on. The minister had spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I think she came up with a wonderful definition that works for everyone, even the secular humanists! Her suggestion was that "evil is anything that keeps us from connecting with our higher purpose."

This definition works very well, whether you consider your higher purpose to be helping to improve humanity in a real physical sense (like the Humanists), following a moral code set out by specific dogma (like the religious paths of Christians), or a more personal exploration of spirit and divinity (such as Pagans, or even Metaphysicians)--in short, whatever keeps you from pursuing your own personal path.

I think there are two parts to this question, however, because then you have to deal with the problem of manifestation. I like to believe that we manifest our own "evil" in a way. For example, I had some pretty nasty shadow issues to deal with, and the state that I was in without dealing with them was perhaps my own "hell". I do think that shadow issues that are excessively repressed and denied can manifest physically and take on somewhat of a life of its own, maybe as a demon, ghost, or other kind of being, depending on our own personal way of defining this energy.

So, I guess this is pretty existentialist in a way, but it makes sense to me. I welcome everyone else's thoughts!

This is some pretty deep thinking for early in the morning, so I am off to have another cup of coffee. LOL!

-Tamara
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mruppert
Posted 4/20/2007 11:18 PM (#1731 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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I started this story a few posts ago, and now the end of the story.....the "Devil" house was at Bunker Hill Road and 33rd Street. We went to it after the movie came out, AND after having to do a lot of research to find out where it was. My companions were my college girlfriend, my college roommate, and his friend. There were some stone steps that lead up to a walkway to the front door of the house. There was a garage to the right side. My girlfriend started up the steps, then her hair sort of "frizzed out" (she had very long black hair) and she said she could not go onto the property and would not under any circumstances. My roommate and I continued on, leaving my friend and his friend to be"chicken". One could not see in the house, the windows were blocked from the inside. The garage, however, had windows in the door and one side, and we saw this beautiful 50's car....I think it was a DeSoto.....sitting in the garage, although the house had not been lived in for quite some time. We never felt ill at ease at all, though our two "chickens" were getting more and more agitated. So we left, and went to The Chatterbar, a local tavern down the street a ways, and had some beers. Our companions would not calm down! They kept saying the place was "evil."
I went back in 1983, after the house burnt down.....done purposely by the "Fire Department" according to neighbors. I went up the stone steps, and could go no further onto the grass that was there at that time, as I got a sense of great ill-ease, almost violent in nature. So, I left and have never been back since.
I would like to see what is there now, but the neighborhood is, in this day and age, not the greatest in the world, and some say down right dangerous. But, maybe, curiousity will overcome me, and I will do a drive by.
Oh....BTW.....the exorcism took place in St. Louis, MO, lasted six months and then a second exorcism was needed and took one year. The boy became a brother or priest in the Roman Catholic faith, I am not sure which, as evidence is withheld and public reports conflicting. And, yes, there is photographic evidence of the demonic posession, but none of us will ever get to see it, as this was a great embarrassment for the Roman Catholic Church, and they keep it very hush hush. They are not embarrassed about the exorcism, but about how long it took them to do it. Afterall, they are practiced in expelling demons....and they blew it!
Now, should you ever be plagued by demons, always remember the movie command of The Exorcist, Father Merrin, to the devil......BE SILENT!
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/21/2007 10:00 AM (#1733 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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All the pictures in the world will never be proof enough for a skeptic. I have pictures of a full blown ghost apparitions and half the people say it's cigarette smoke, smog, glare, you name it. One will say it was spoofed, or anything other than what it was. Demonic activity is only a theory, not a FACT and is based totally on religious belief systems. Which happens to be the biggest NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming) system in the world.

I believe if they did have real proof, it would not be hidden. It's only proof to those who want to believe it. Taking a year is nothing to be embarrassed about. It's impossible to FORCE free will. It's taken many years to be able to gain anything scientific based in some pretty haunted places, and still isn't proof enough to change a skeptics mind.

Shame.

I personally do not believe in a demon, or devil.... but that is my own choice. One can believe what they want, according to their own recorded script in the subconscious. ALL of our realities are based upon what we have experienced as our reality. I for one will NOT create a demon or devil to be real in my own reality. But i do believe very much that others have created it to be real in their reality. But i also feel it's because if NLP.

If one does believe in demons, I wish them strength to know -they have no power over anyone, UNLESS one lets them.

Blessings~

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Elkhorn
Posted 4/21/2007 3:22 PM (#1735 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil


I believe that in a universe of pure positive energy, the only evil that "exists" is what has been called the energy veil (e-veil or evil) or the manifestation of thoughts that are not in alignment with that Source. It is becoming more amazing to me each day how powerful each of us are as creators in this field of experience that we share. It is our primary purpose here to create (via the Mind) and that is what we are doing across the board as we think and as we do so each of us add to the overall vibration of the world we are experiencing. Some call that form world the manifestation of the mass consciosness and that includes every good feeling thought and every bad feeling thought that each of us are focused on in every on going tick of the "clock".
Can a highly evolved spiritual being with malevolent intent even exist? I think that would be impossible given the "fact" that "evil" is confined to this earth plane. As we upgrade our vibratory countenance we move into new dimensions of thought which can only produce consciousness that is in alignment with that stream of pure positive energy. Of course, as we have seen in history, many have decided to use the Source energy to do harm to others but these cannot move to higher levels of spiritual attainment because they are unable to enter into the kingdom until they become as little children, or so one Master has proclaimed. I believe that the opportunity for many to come into this understanding is unfolding very rapidly as we approach what has been called the "end times", which I prefer to see as a new beginning.
Perhaps we would do better to laugh at the absurdity of the concept of "evil" at any level because it is, after all, not real and its appearance has no real power.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/21/2007 11:08 PM (#1737 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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Very well put and understood. I agree!


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Aquarius
Posted 4/22/2007 11:27 AM (#1748 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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There is a time for everything, as the Bible tells us in Ecclesiastes ‘To everything, there is a season; and a time for every purpose under the Sun: a time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to pluck up that which has been planted; a time to kill and a time to heal; a time to tear down and a time to build up; a time to weep and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones and a time to gather stones together…’ Ecclesiastes 3 1-2

There is also a time for learning about the polarities contained in the concepts of good and evil. Part of this lesson is that we find ourselves sometimes at its giving end and at other times at the receiving one. There are two aspects to this; the first is that as always, everybody has to learn from their own experiences. The second is that the scales of justice eventually have to be balanced again. No matter how dire things may look on the surface and whatever may befall us, all we can do is to follow our inner guidance and trust that we and our world rest safely in the hands of God and the Angels. When we do our best, they can and will do the rest. Accept what comes and work our way through our tests and trials, knowing that all evil finally leads us and our world back to good. That, after all, is our true nature of the Universe and also our own. For as long as we always strive to remain true to it and trust our inner guidance, everything will finally work out well. 

With love and light,

Aquarius

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Supernatural3
Posted 4/22/2007 12:15 PM (#1749 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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I also feel that we cannot fail.... regardless of anything we do now. It's just easier to get by feeling positive things, over negative.
I also think hell is a frame of mind. To let love in is heaven, to deny love is hell.



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Aquarius
Posted 4/23/2007 10:21 AM (#1756 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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Many false beliefs abound in our world; one of them is the idea that Heaven and Hell are places we go to; that they are somewhere up there or down there! All wartime experiences prove more than abundantly to anyone that Heaven and Hell are states of consciousness, which we create for ourselves and each other, in the here and now.

Unbeknown to us earthlings for a long time, at a certain stage of our evolution, we are all given the freedom to make our own choices. From that moment, it is up to each individual to bring their own idea of Heaven down to Earth in their daily life. When we find out that this is the case, at long last we can consciously work on this and therefore make some real progress. In the meantime, those who still lack this awareness insist on creating hell for themselves and those around them. Such poor souls deserve our compassion! Blissfully unaware, they are producing ever more negative and difficult Karma for themselves, which has to be redeemed at some stage – by none other than themselves, the same as everybody else. Makes you wonder – does it not? – how much longer it will take such souls until they too realise that everybody has the power within to transform their own life and that of those around them from a living Hell on Earth into Heaven on Earth? If we told them, would they believe us? If you come across one of those, how about trying to nudge them a bit in that direction, the same as someone probably once did with you? Could you be the one who helps them walk their first step towards that great change of consciousness we all eventually have to go through? Such grandiose words! All it means in simple terms is to change one’s outlook on life and with it one’s inner attitudes towards oneself, to others and our world. This is the meaning of being reborn; as more and more undergo this process, the spiritual rebirth of humankind and our world is taking place.

With love and light,

Aquarius

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mruppert
Posted 4/28/2007 11:59 PM (#1779 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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Hi Elkhorn: Why do you feel that the energy of the universe is "positive"? Laws, or, as I believe, conjectures of the "universe" are destructive. Entropy and chaos are principles in physics. Even in the world of quantum physics, there is "charm" and 'strange". They are mutually self destructive.
Regards,
Marty
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/29/2007 12:43 PM (#1789 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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I understood it as viewing evil differently... giving it a chance to not be so bad, but of balance or blindness. LOL It spoke metaphorically to me. That is why i understood it so well. I don't believe in pure evil, so technically i cannot believe in pure positive either.... but in a way i still do, because i don't think anything can fail. Which is all positive. Complete faith....
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Aquarius
Posted 5/1/2007 10:00 AM (#1800 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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Energies within themselves are neither good nor evil - it is the way we use them, i.e. our intentions behind our actions, that decides whether something becomes good or evil. With love - Aquarius

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Aquarius
Posted 5/1/2007 10:02 AM (#1801 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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OF GOOD AND EVIL
One of the elders of the city said:  ‘Speak to us of good and evil.’
And he [the prophet] replied:
‘Of the good in you I can speak, but not of the evil.
For what is evil but the good within you
That is tortured by its own hunger and thirst
For the experience of learning about evil,
So that it may return to its true nature?
That is why when good is hungry it seeks food even in dark caves,
And when it thirsts it will also drink of dead waters.

You are good when you are at one with your Highest Self,
Yet, when you are not one with it, you are not evil.
You are but a divided house and that is not necessarily a den of thieves;
It is merely that the two parts of you,
Your Highest Self and its earthly counterpart are still
Travelling in opposite directions; thus, you are a divided house,
This can be likened to a ship without rudder that wanders aimlessly
Among perilous isles, without necessarily sinking to the bottom.
When you have learnt enough about evil,
With the help of God and the Angels,
The two parts of you will be joined together again,
And brought into harmony, so that they can work for you, instead of against.

If some of the souls in your world still seem to be guided
Away from their Highest Self and ever deeper into physicality,
Fear not – the turning point does come for you and all that is in your world.
Your evolution is a circle that first moves you away from God, that which is all good;
It is a spiral that first takes you downwards, you descend into matter.
When the right moment has come, you begin to move in an upward direction again.
You are then on your way back home into being all-good, all-loving and all-knowing,
Like your God Self and becoming one again with It.
For as long as your lessons require that you move downward, you are not evil –
The core of your being will always remain good and of God;
You will merely be learning to differentiate between good and evil.

You are good when you are spiritually awake in your speech.
Yet, you are not evil whilst this part of you is still asleep
And your tongue staggers without purpose;
Stumbling speech also serves a purpose; it helps to strengthen a weak tongue.
You are good when you strive to give of yourself.
Yet, you are not evil whilst you are still seeking gain for yourself.
When you are doing so, you are still learning the lesson
Of being a root that clings to Mother Earth and sucks at her breast.
And a fruit cannot say to a root: ‘Be like me,
Ripe and full and ever giving of my abundance.
Yet, the fruit’s giving is as good a need as the receiving of the root.

You are good when you walk towards your goal firmly and with bold steps.
Yet, you are not evil whilst you still go there limping.
Even the limping ones in this life do not go backwards,
For all life is evolution and moves ever forward.
But let those who are strong and swift,
See that they do not limp before the lame,
Believing this to be out of kindness to them.

You are good in countless ways,
And you are not evil when you are not good,
You are neither loitering nor sluggard,
But merely learning to recognise to differentiate between good and evil.
Have compassion too for those who already move as swiftly as stags,
And think they can teach their swiftness to those
Who so far can only move like turtles.
Wise ones know that in God’s great plan, the turtle has its place,
As well as the stag.

Your goodness lies in your longing for being at one with your Highest Self;
And that longing is in all of you.
In some, it already is like a torrent that is rushing to the sea, with all its might,
Carrying with it the secrets of the hillsides and the songs of the forests.
The longing of others is still like a shallow stream
That loses itself in angles and bends, until it too finally reaches its destination.

Each does come to the end of their journey, in their own sweet time.
That is why there is no need that those whose longing already is strong
Say to those in whom it is still weak: ‘Why are you slow and halting?’
And that is why someone who already is truly good
Would never dream of asking someone who is naked:  ‘Where is your garment?’
Or someone who is homeless: ‘What has befallen your home?’’

From ‘The Prophet’ by Kahlil Gibran 1883-1931
Lebanese/American poet
Edited by Aquarius 2007

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Elkhorn
Posted 5/6/2007 8:28 PM (#1828 - in reply to #1779)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil


Marty,
Since I view the universe as pure positive energy, so it is. Buddha stated that all is mind and Jesus supposedly said, "As a man thinketh, so is he." I am convinced that the universe is no more than our belief, both collectively and individually, all synergistically interacting with itself, all its parts like a body that dances to a rythm and a melody that is inherent in all things, both creative and destructive forces included...like the ouroboros dragon that eats its own tail....the churning movement of life ever containing itself, recreating itself in newer and newer cycles and giving us, through this process, the experience of individuation for as long an eternity as we want.
One can look at the universe as chaotic self destruction and, in a way, it is. But, as you say, there are two sides to every coin so perfect order and magnificent creative power are also available to the observer.
I suppose the question is, "How do I want to experience it?" Aloha. Elkhorn
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Aquarius
Posted 5/7/2007 11:11 AM (#1829 - in reply to #1614)
Subject: RE: The Problem of Evil



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Thank you, Elkhorn - I feel that the main question is more like: 'Which lesson am I presently learning - the one of good or the one of evil?' Everything in the end does return to good and to love, because that is the energy of the Universe, of the Divine. The law of life is evolution and only through our own experiences can anyone learn how to differentiate between any two extremes; and therefore grow in understanding in wisdom. And through that each one eventually finds their own way to into our true nature, which is love.

And no, I don't believe that the Universe is chaotic - it merely appears that way to us, because as yet, we understand so very little of how it works. With love - Aquarius



Edited by Aquarius 5/7/2007 11:12 AM
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