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|Hi all; |
I will not be able to attend a seminar sponsored by the Fortean Society, since it is Kensington, England, and I just don't have the funds to go. I so much wanted to, as a presenter will discuss why scientific observation will most likely not ever produce an affirmation of the existence of ghosts. Telly shows like "Most Haunted" with David Acora (this is a UK show) have been exposed to be contrived for entertainment value.
The presenter, whose name I do not recall at the moment, is not a debunker of the existence of ghosts, but just a critic of the method to affirm the existence of entities that are supernatural and/or paranormal.
So, I am wondering, have any of you seen a ghost, BUT, with another person? A person who saw what you did?
Location: NE Ohio
|I have been investigating ghosts since 1993. |
I have witnessed too many to talk about. I have no doubt that ghosts exist, always have, always will. The only way to totally believe, it to experience it for ones self. No matter what evidence someone may bring forth, someone will say's it's spoofed or fixed, or caused by anything but what it was. So basically, unless you are there and witness it for yourself, and discount all possibilities, you will be a skeptic.
I personally believe that Most haunted is faked. Being psychic myself, and channeling, not at any place or time have i needed to throw myself around and cause a completely chaotic drama filled scene. But we are talking about DRAMA and TV. So do i believe that some of those places are indeed haunted? You bet!
However, I am also Demon Skeptic..... I have never experienced anything of such sort.... perhaps negative, or mean, or angry, yes. But i don't believe in pure negative and i feel it's impossible to exist. For every negative must be a positive and vice versa. But this is my own theory and there are no FACTS in ghost hunting. We can only experience and decide for ourselves what is real or not real.
I hope you find your own experiences to be good ones.
|Hi again Doc: |
Many "organized" religions perform exorcisms; the casting out of evil spirits which have chosen to inhabit the body. However, the Roman Catholics have a formal "Rite of Exorcism" . This is usually ( and rarely ) performed on people, and ( rarer still ) on places. Yet, it exists.
The point is that it is written down, and people from times past did not have the "luxery" of writing. Producing written material was arduous and time consuming on a scale we cannot really envision. Therefore, people only wrote what was important to them, so that it might be preserved.
The Rite of Exorcism survives as written en-parte of the Roman Rite......which tells me that it was important for someone (a priest?) to know how to cast out a demon. Why did they need to know this?
Now I forget what I was going to say since I went off on this tangential road......sorry!!!!!
Location: NE Ohio
|Hi Martin, |
yes, i know they wrote things they felt were very important, but i also felt that they were spoofed easily, by this i mean, frightened. If a child had a convulsion, the church would call it a demon attack. We all know medical science was seriously lacking back then. I think it's wild imagination combined with some real issues of possible ghosts and/or spirits, that do indeed effect our energy levels and can influence us. I don't disagree that it's possible, I just cannot conceive of a demonic entity existing. That would mean PURE negative exists and the science in me refuses that notion, along with the fact that some intelligence just LIKES the negative and chooses to feed on it, even if they have a positive side. I think some churches over do it, and scare the crap out of people needlessly. But that is why i chose metaphysics, instead of religion.
I also don't believe in hell, or a hell as a physical place..... i think it's simply Lack of love.... a mental place. I also feel if one "Thinks" they deserve hell, they will place themselves there, until they realize that they have always had a choice to choose other ways, thoughts and accept love and light with in them.
I think the writer of the movie "What Dreams May Come" was brilliant and most likely closer to the truth than we can comprehend.
Again, all we have is theory.....
I am sure many theories back in the ancient days didn't get to be written down at all. Even if they were important, only the RICHER got to be noted.
It's a shame that some brilliant minds were never heard at all.... or documented. So much is lost, we only really get one side.
But it's fascinating.... I love these topics... Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
|Hi Doc |
You said if something pure negative were real then there would have to be a balance,isn't that where angels come into play?I too am a ghost hunter,I'm a psychic and a medium.But I haven't ever been able to channel/trance on my own freewill.I have traced but not meaning too.Hence one of the reasons I just started classes here.
I have encountered demons before,but that is expected when you work with a demonolgist.The nice thing is,that angels are eager to come to our aid to help rid people of these creatures.That's the draw back to many ghost hunting groups,is that they just aren't prepared to deal with a demon if one is ever encountered.
But yes I too have experanced many ghosts and spirits.But more spirits than Ghosts.
What are your thoughts on "Orbs"spirit,ghost or just dust that can pass thru walls.LOL
Day orb-cropa1.JPG (40KB - 518 downloads)
Location: NE Ohio
|Orbs..... Good ol orbs. |
Many people feel they get positive results when they get orbs. but 95% of an orb shot is anything BUT paranormal. I am talking the ones where it's dust, mold, moisture, reflection, refraction, etc.
However, you still have the fact that energy emits light when charged. It's bound to happen..... so Orbs cannot be dismissed totally. It's when you have other things happen with it, that you have to say, YEP!
As far as Demons.....
Sorry, i don't believe in them. But i believe in malevolent beings, who CHOOSE to thrive on negative, because of other reasons. They can and will eventually heal. I don't agree or believe with the religious view of evil.
However, i also believe in Angels..... but just those who choose to heal and help. They could shoose to do other things, if they wanted to let out their shadow side. But most choose not to, because it's more rewarding. So a demon and angel could be one and the same. This one is described as Lucifer. The angel supposedly fell..... Wouldn't that make him Human?
Notice, while human, we cannot hear God anymore? We feel pain, we bleed, experience cold, experience loneliness, hunger, etc. Wouldn't you think this was hell, if you were used to a world of never feeling any of these things?
Devil is just man...... That is all..... So if you refuse to let God in your heart, you would be in hell. Simple as that.
So let the light in..... you cannot fail, you will be in angel form once again.
At least this is my warped way of thinking that makes sense to me. But i won't live my life, thinking some demon is out to get me, that is not my reality. There are too many other explanations that could be explaining the same.
|Scouring through the old posts on the forum I find much fascinating information. |
I must say my beliefs about ghosts, evil, the devil, etc go right along with Jill's. I can't seem to come to grips with the existence of Angels, though. I happen to be working on the course in connecting with Angels right now-we'll see. It's true that we remain skeptical until we see it ourselves. I suppose I'll believe in Angels when I see them or at least, when I can make some sense of what it is they are supposed to be.
I've not seen anything at the same time another person saw it, but on a ghost "tour" last year, my daughter and I "felt" the same things at the same time, smelled the same things that others didn't. She doesn't have the interest in all of this that I do, but she certainly has the same ability of picking things up that I've had. Is there any scientific evidence that these things run in families? I seem to have inherited some of this from both sides-which I only discovered after becoming an adult.
Location: NE Ohio
|There must be scientific data somewhere, as many labs were created for testing psychic abilities. The only thing is, it's extreme hard to prove. I know I have psychic abilities beyond a shadow of doubt, but I don't like being put on the spot, yet when I am, somehow.... I pass the test. (note- This has always been in person). Yet, i have been clearly able to pass tests over the phone too. BUT, are they lucky guesses? |
I honestly think all of us are psychic, because at one point while in spirit form, we were all connected and all telepathic. We communicated with each other via 'thought'. I have only been able to do that a couple times, while human and it was during extreme hard times. One time it happened to me, right smack before and during a car crash... I heard the driver tell me he was sorry, as it was happening, yet, his mouth didn't move. This all happened in slow motion and divine intervention stepped in and saved my life. One just doesn't crash into trees at 117mph and walk away. I did.
The other time it happened years prior, which kind of kick started my metaphysical journey. What is weird is, I was ALWAYS spiritual, even as a kid, my favorite thing to do was have séances, or do light as a feather, etc. It drove my best friend crazy.... so she told me last night. LOL, i never knew that and I forgot how spiritual I was as a kid. However, when my grandfather passed, he came to see me, in the flesh. It was the most beautiful experience I have ever seen. He talked to me telepathically and I understood him - clearly. When I think about it, I have no idea how, or if I hallucinated, but it was beautiful and it brought about a very peaceful feeling of beauty. I knew he was still alive. No loss, just temporary separation. What made this very real to me, was that I called my mother instantly, just to ask her if I was awake. Of course she wanted to know what drugs I was on. HA HA HA, i was accused of that a lot.... No drugs though. How funny....
The binder for this being real (to me): I was so intrigued with what happened, but the kicker is this. A man came into my metaphysics store, shortly after my grandfather passed and he brought me a book called "Journey of Souls" by Dr. Michael Newton. The book is about life in-between lifes and his clients recalled their memories of it. The book confirmed my exact event to a T. By this I mean, the description of what his clients saw, is exactly what I saw the day my grandfather came to me. It's beautiful and I and thankful for being blessed enough to experience it.
I am not sure of the existance of Angels being superior, I see it as a job. A really good job.
Given more duties than most, but also ability to create divine intervention, when they see the need. All i know is, something saved my life, as I floated in clouds while my car totally crashed into trees. How could something so harsh, be so serene? That is all I remember and I never lost consciousness, so I don't get it.
I am not saying by any means that others cannot believe in Angels and Demons, I just have my own belief system, from my own experiences and well..... I express how I see it. Other eyes will experience their own reality. No two will be exactly alike, so lets enjoy our own private universes.
Location: North Georgia
|Disa - |
I had the similar blocks and anytime I have to read a course or book that leans towards the end of Christianity that I was brought up with I have a really hard time finishing it. When I have a block I tend break it down vibrationally. It seems to make more sense to me that way .
From a vibrational standpoint, beings here and on the other side can exist in every possible end of the vibrational spectrum, from depression, hatred and anger, to hopefulness, joy and love. You have met humans that resonate joyful, happy feelings and I'm sure you've met some pretty miserable ones too. Since our world is a reflection of "the other side" it is probable that what we call "demons" or "evil spirits" are just miserable souls vibrating in the lower vibrations. "Angels" are the spirits that are full of love, vibrating in higher vibrations. Ghosts, guides and other entities are in-between. As far as pitchforks, pointed tails, and horns OR wings and halos - that is just something the human aspect has created to imagine and differentiate between these entities. Non-physical does not have any use for such things - thus should be eliminated from the equations if they bring you trouble.
As we too are vibrational beings and like attracts like - The entities that you are able to connect with will be in the same vibrational range that you are in. As Esther Hicks says, "you can't turn your radio to," 1498 a.m., "and expect to hear 98.5 FM". (Sorry can't remember the exact quote ). You have to at least be in the same neighborhood.
As far as "inherited" abilities, everyone has "the 6th sense". We are just taught to resist it or told that it is make-believe, have turn away from or denied it. If you were taught that a certain action was your imagination, you likely taught your daughter the same thing. But on the other hand, if you were taught to, say, listen to your gut, it is very likely that you also taught your daughter to as well. Therefore she would not resist that particular natural ability.
In that respect, “these things” do tend to "run in families", but they are all abilities everyone is born with and has access to. The only constraints are the limits we place on ourselves thru our beliefs.
I have read Doc/Disa responses. There are, indeed, ghosts! If you read the board carefully you will see that there are many!!!!!!!
Peace n' Love,
Marty and PhantomCats....Phlucky, PhPoppy and PhSissy........from beyond!
|And please go to stochastic music!!!|
Location: NE Ohio
|Oh yeah, I get what you are all saying. I believe we do all have intuition, psychic abilities, 6th sense, whatever terminology one chooses to define it. I realize some are more aware of it than others, but in the instance of picking up on the presence of spirits whether it be clairaudient, clairvoyant, or clairsentient-- I wondered if that type of thing ran in families. I can't go into all the detail here, but as children we weren't told one thing or another about it- my sister and I just sort of picked up on things as the occurred around us. We weren't encouraged or discouraged, but were sort of free to believe whatever. Even as a kid I trusted my vibes. I guess it just seems some people are more open to the possibilities than others.|
I am well aware that I have the most unpopular concept of this as any on this site; or other sites.
But, I go by fact and proof and not what I "want" to believe.
All the things you mentioned and more exist, and quite comfortably in this (scientific) world. People can heal....BUT only certain people can do it. (Get ready...here is where the boos and hisses start to come). Those that can are a minority and special....and few and far between. If you can communicate with Sis, across dis, without saying a word..you might have something going.....if you can do things in precognitive response to an unexpressed (future) request, you are a diamond and must learn how to sparkle.....not to attract attention to others who adorn themselves....but to ignite the inner fire that gives diamonds their allure and hypnotic air.
Peace and Paws,
Marty and Luck, Popp and SissyGrrl
My God! We are at the right place and at the right time!
"Notice, while human, we cannot hear God anymore? We feel pain, we bleed, experience cold, experience loneliness, hunger, etc. Wouldn't you think this was hell, if you were used to a world of never feeling any of these things?"
Hi Doc, these thought of yours reminds me of my mother's last interview nine days before she gave up the ghost. I found her to be worried. I asked her whether anything is bothering her system. She told me she was fine. "I am completely healed, only that my body is weak and I don't feel my weight. I am just worried I am leaving where I know to where is strange. You will have to take heart," she said.
Oh, me too, puppett.....- about the proof. I don't mean to imply that everyone has extraordinary ESP or mediumship capabilities that will knock your socks off. But to me, your internal guidance system, that spark of intuition that tells a person they are walking into a dangerous situation, that feeling you get inside when you are physically going in a different direction than what your heart and soul knows is true- that's the thing I think everyone has, yet they don't all listen to it. It would seem to me that those who are sensitive or receptive to their own internal guidance system, may be more sensitive or receptive to noticing the "ghosts" or "spirits" around them. I don't think it's always a case of wanting to believe it- when it's right in front of you, what other choice do you have? Had I not had my own experiences with such, I would surely not believe it, either. Small things that repeatedly occurred to me in life since I was very young sent me on this journey of defining what was happening to me. It wasn't the norm, and still isn't, for people to discuss such things in daily life-the internet is a huge help in this respect. However, on this side of the veil, we may all still be guessing What a great surprise awaits us when the time comes.
Edited by Disa 4/26/2009 8:09 AM
Location: NE Ohio
|Wow Danjummai,she must have known. |
Thank you for sharing that. It brought warm fuzzies to my heart.
Location: United Kingdom
|Nicely put, up there above, Katrina |
How amazing Jill, yes Ahmad, how your mother must have discerned...something of a minor coincidence I guess, but I was absent from the Boards lately because I was visiting my own mother, many miles distant, a rare event.
Marty I met a licensed RC exorcist many years ago and he said in all his long experience (he was nigh on 70), out of all the 'exorcisms' to which he had been called, only maybe two or three were in his view, genuine demonic possessions.
The 'ghost' of my father appeared to me in a dream three years after he passed from this world, though his spirit form was completely altered.
On a recent trip to the English Lake District, at one of the oldest English stone circles, Castle Rigg, dating back to aournd 3,000 BC (I think), my wife took three or four photographs of me by the Circle, and each one appeared to have an orb (though it could have been the sun's refraction, I prefer to feel them to be orbs!). We had a moving moment meeting a man in a wheelchair who had pushed himself all the way up the hill alone.
Interesting that, in Shakespeare's 'Hamlet', the ghost of Hamlet's father is indeed perceived by several people at one time, and again at the same time on other nights.
Cannot post my orb pictures, but here is Castle Rigg:
I am reviving this thread in order to state, I had my first ghostly apparition experience three nights ago. It was a face much like a whitish three dimensional painting hovering over my bed as I awoke. I am convinced it was a strong psychic impression of some sort. I watched it until almost fully awake. I never could make an identification, it simply was not clear in shape. I have my own idea of what it was and why it was there. In a few moments it slipped off into the corner of my room near my bed. I guess this is what could be called a 'shell.' I hope it does not come back.
Anyone, have similar experiences?
P.S. I realize this was a long time ago. But, please refer to Roman Catholics by a different name than "RC" to avoid confusing them with Rosicrucians.
Location: United Kingdom
|Hi Cause |
Did you try to move your body in anyway when you had this experience? Could you? I had a not dissimilar experience many years ago that was interpreted by a psychiatrist as 'sleep paralysis'. Though I was to learn later there was a reality element possibly at work about which I knew nothing at the time.
Yet as I read and reflected on your post, it greatly reminded me of a painting that I have tried to find on Google, but cannot: it was of a sleeper lying in bed, with a ghostly woman in white hovering over the sleeper. I think it is quite a famous painting, possibly pre-Raphaelite, so maybe somone else hereabouts might know what I am talking about!
If it was my use of RC that caused offence, sorry, it was unintentional. Though I would never abbreviate Rosicrucian in that way as that is all one word ...
Edited by Paul Joseph 12/3/2015 2:52 PM
Ah, you are thinking, about 'the old hag' experience. It was similar. I did not experience any paralysis. Still you may be right. I was unsure of the sex of the face.
The Rosicrucians have abbreviated their organization RC for years, where the Catholic Church has not. No offense taken. I just wanted to avoid confusion.
I will look on Google for the picture, although I am not sure it will be particularly enlightening.
Location: United Kingdom
|Hi Cause |
I looked and looked at Google, and there are lots of versions of a painting by Henry Fuseli called The Nightmare, but that is not what I was remembering. In my recollection the painting is of a beautiful, yet unearthly woman with blond hair coming up over the end of a bed, with the dreamer lying as if transfixed ... I thought it was one of the pre-Raphaelites, but doesn't seem to be. It seems to have connections with the idea of the Succubus, or Incubus.
Marty is usually good at putting his finger on those kind of stray bits of evidence ... Marty?
In my experience (occurred around 1975), I was frozen into immobility, but heard outside my window a woman crying ... the odd thing was that people in the upstairs flat heard their bell ring that evening but nobody was there.
My search brought some horror paintings that where not pre-Raphaelite. I think they are much more modern. The phenomena seems to be 'the old hag' which is disappointing. I thought I had something more interesting. As disturbing as the image was I am unsure it was malicious. It did not seem directly sexual. And, I was not paralyzed, just disturbed. I almost want it to return. I don't want further unsettling. But, if this was not malicious I want to understand it and find healing.
If I may, I have had a thought about the old comments on this thread involving demons. It was mentioned that an old exorcist had only seen 2-3 real demonic possessions in his career. Has anyone else thought that there simply might be that few demons around in this modern age? Two thousand years of effort can bring about some amazing results! Perhaps you were considering something that was once much more common. It is a testament to exorcists if this is so. I should like to think it is.
There is the question of other phenomena in the area on the night of the event. I will ask others in the area. If there is not but good sleep and pleasant dreams I might disregard the thoughts of malevolence in this spirit altogether. I will not do so yet. Perhaps, it was something I will learn something from.
Location: United Kingdom
|Sorry to have led you on a wild Google goose chase Cause ... I also did not find the picture that I was thinking of, which also was not malevolent, just other-worldly ... maybe it was an anima/animus projection of your own (you might know Jung's writings on UFOs which refer to external manifestations from our own unconscious)....just some reflections that I hope are helpful ... |
No, it was foreign from my mind, as I was awake, and it seemed quite real, although all made of white. I really don't think you have led me on a wild goose chase. It was an 'old hag' experience. It is just a strange that the concept might be incomplete until you consider that this old hag might be more misguided than malevolent.
I happen to believe that UFO's have an external component. The french government seems to agree with me. That is a different thread altogether. We (in the USA) could learn something about the benefit of open communication in a democracy from the French. Like I said, we should stay on subject.
I was wondering what our ghost hunting professionals thought about this event in my life. Supernatural, if you want to comment, it might be a help.
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