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What does the Crucifixion mean to you?
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/2/2011 9:56 AM (#21757 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Ha - I suppose I deserved that ....
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Danjummai
Posted 7/12/2011 1:33 PM (#21783 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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we deserve nothing

we seserve more!

PEACE!

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mruppert
Posted 7/13/2011 9:20 PM (#21786 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Awwwww guyz................
     For me, it is more that the Americals say "a" as an a> sound in most usages......as in I am an Ah-merican, not an Aaaaaaaamerican. Britals tend to draw out the a longer than we do which would allow for the roll of the tongue to do the h-issssstorian. Plus, in some parts of Britain, you guys tend to tighten the lips so the "a" widens the mouth and makes the "his" more dental.
     The accepted usage is "an" historian for us....as we are more cognizant of speaking it rather than reading it.

      Now German, our father language, is a different story all together....but I ain't gonna go into that, dear Aqua.....unless you want to......but be warned...Foxy might inquire why we ain't speaking no English!

      Oh...so others may not be confused and think me an idiot......in Bristol, UK folks tend to put an al or el sound on the end of words. So, I became an Americal.
ASDA in Bristol is ASDAL....but not gert lush. BUT, Tesco is still Tesco, no matter where you go.....even up in Cornwall.

Peace and Hugs to My Compadres,
Marty, Luckylee, Poppyhead, Sissygirl
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FoxFires
Posted 7/18/2011 1:41 PM (#21794 - in reply to #21786)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?


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Marty,

You do not need to warn people about what I might do, but hey you have to pass the time some way.

I realized that if you do not explain anything the way I understand it, or in a foreign language, I do not need to try to understand the post, and just surrender to this as beyond my control

XOXO

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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/19/2011 8:02 AM (#21800 - in reply to #21783)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Thanks Danjummai ...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/24/2011 5:26 PM (#21850 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Thread question -

it means, possibility, impossibility, death, rebirth, pain, sweat,turmoil, betrayal, abandonment, resolution, atonement, forgiveness, yearning, darkness, light, torture, nothingness, everything
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mruppert
Posted 7/24/2011 7:12 PM (#21854 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Bravo Aquarius!!!!!!!!!!!

Ya wanna know something else that bothers me, personally. Americans travel to the remotest corners of the world and expect that someone will speak English....no matter where they are....even in Canada!!??!!

Yet, when people come from abroad to visit us, we are like "whydunja larn to speak Murican, ya igurunt ferner"!

I am not going to mention the silliness of suburban white kids talking gangsta ....or when British kids do it....which is downright comical.

Piece,

Marty, Lucky, Poppy, Sissy

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Danjummai
Posted 7/25/2011 12:16 PM (#21860 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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You welcome, Paul dear!
Does 'Agua' in Spanish means water?
Marty, Aquarius, anyone??? Dumb, right...I should google it me self...I gor it!

PEACE!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/25/2011 3:07 PM (#21861 - in reply to #21860)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Evening Danjummai - yes I think agua does mean water in Spanish, though I am not a Spanish scholar, so am open to correction ... ha ha, as I type, there is a TV programme about alien life and 'water' on other planets!!
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Aquarius
Posted 7/26/2011 7:15 AM (#21866 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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You're right, Paul. Agua means water in Spanish. Aqua means water in Latin, but in spite of that Aquarius is NOT one of the Water signs but an Air sign. Should you want to find out why, please ask.

With love - Aquarius

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mruppert
Posted 7/27/2011 7:44 PM (#21873 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Indeedy!
Aqua or some variant spelling means water in all romance languages. (Not that kind of romance...the other kind!)

The depictions of the astrological sign (almost always) shows a feminine figure pouring water (the water most likely due to other mythological interpretations) but the ideology may have been influenced by Ganymede. Zeus took a shine to Ganymede, who was a boy by the way, and transported him up to Olympus to tend to the cups of the Gods....which means he sorta had a big jug full of wine and poured away. Point is, since he was elevated to Olympus, this establishes Aquarius as an air sign. I am smiling, dearest Aqua!

So you had something like this:
Forsooth Ganymede, willst thou fillest my cup and make bold my vessel or must the mighty chasten thee forthwith though thee have proffered no offense but slaggard regard for all that above thy station but within thy grasp?
Which today is:
Yo Ganman, hit me!    (Isn't it remarkable how we have fit all that colorful, poetic language into four words? I, for one am delighted. Oh, excuse me, let me speak English, I'm like oh my god).

Aquarius, I hope I have not confused readers with my silly play with your name. I would cling to your every word if you would grace us with an explanation of the air signs, particularly yours.

And I mean that, Sincerely,

Yours,
Marty, and Lucky, Poppy, Sissygirl

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Aquarius
Posted 7/28/2011 4:52 AM (#21877 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Bless you, dear Marty and thank you for your observations on this theme. Here are some of mine:

The fixed Air sign Aquarius is co-ruled by Saturn and Uranus. It is the eleventh sign in the zodiac and the eleventh house is its natural abode. Its keyword is: ‘I know!’ Aquarius is the sign of revolution, whose symbol is the water bearer who holds a pot in his arms from which he seems to be pouring water. Because of this it is hardly surprising that to this day there is quite a bit of confusion about the nature of this sign. In spite of its symbol and contrary to popular beliefs, Aquarius is by no means one of the Water signs. It is an Air sign and the water that flows from the man’s vessel is not of the liquid kind known to us on the Earth plane. It is an allegory for the cleansing and purifying effect of fresh spiritual knowledge and wisdom that is constantly being poured from the highest levels of life into the earthly consciousness of humankind, to enable us and our world to move forward on the evolutionary spiral of life.

From ‘The Sun in Aquarius’ 
 
With love and light,
Aquarius



Edited by Aquarius 3/4/2015 2:19 PM
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Aquarius
Posted 3/7/2015 7:47 AM (#25944 - in reply to #21877)
Subject: RE: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Easter, the symbol of  the resurrection of all life from its winter rest, being once again almost upon us, seems to me a good time for reviving this thread to take another closer look at the esoteric truths that are hidden behind the surface words of the Jesus legend and the events of Easter in particular.

With love – Aquarius

* * *

The Galilee Song

Deep within my heart I feel
Voices, whispering to me,
Words, that I can’t understand,
Meanings, I must clearly hear!
Calling me to follow close,
Lest I leave myself behind!
Calling me to walk into
Evening shadows one more time!

In my memories I know
How you send familiar rains,
Falling gently on my days,
Dancing patterns on my pain.
And I need to learn once more
In the fortress of my mind:
To believe in falling rain
As I travel deserts dry

 As I gaze into the night,
Down the future of my years,
I’m not sure I want to walk
Past horizons that I know.
But I feel my spirit called,
Like a stirring deep within,
Restless ‘till I live again
Beyond the fears that close me in.

So I leave my boats behind,
Leave them on familiar shores.
Set my heart upon the deep,
Follow you again,
My true Lord and Master,
The Universal Christ.

Frank Andersen
With a small addition
By Aquarius

* * *



Edited by Aquarius 3/7/2015 8:55 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/8/2015 7:47 AM (#25951 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Is not the Crucifixion, apart from being a many layered spiritual narrative, in itself the sense of being abandoned by everyone and everything, then being completely emptied, inside and outside? Though as I write I remember that it was three women who stayed by the Cross, keeping vigil, so perhaps the abandonment is an internal event, experience ... oh I don't know .... but there is far more to it too ....

Edited by Paul Joseph 3/8/2015 7:48 AM
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Aquarius
Posted 3/8/2015 10:53 AM (#25956 - in reply to #25951)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Well, isn't that always the case? As we ourselves wade our way through this experience, it is up to us to each one of us for ourselves to fathom its depths, the same as all other initiations the Jesus legend describes.

With love - Aquarius



Edited by Aquarius 3/8/2015 10:57 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/8/2015 4:15 PM (#25957 - in reply to #25956)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Dear Aquarius

Jesus ... legend?

It always seems to me there is more to Jesus than mere, 'legend' ...

Even the Roman historian Josephus, who one might think would want Jesus written out of history, permits him a mention: unless I am misremembering; I am writing here without my notebook....

Kind regards

Paul
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/8/2015 4:38 PM (#25958 - in reply to #25957)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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I went back over this thread and see that I tried first time out to attach a poem sequence I had come up with on the Crucifixion but it would not open properly. Sorry for that. I re-read some of it just now and it still seems potentially pertinent. Leastways in trying to communicate an experience of crucifixion, that some around the world even now are having to endure (although somewhat interestingly, crucifixion as a method of execution had ceased when I first wrote this; it has since been revived):

VIEWS OF A CRUCIFIXION

The Crucifying Self

Nothing.
He said nothing.
How could we help ourselves?
“Truth
Is in me
And you
And you!”
Bah!
Nothing!
To destroy his arrogance
To retain our silence
To hold on to violence
We had to
He was beaten by two men:
One tall,
One short:
Let them tell their tale.




Centurions

Double thronged whips
See his flesh as it rips
Taste the blood as it pours
As he crawls on all fours

Bell shaped pellets at each end
Drag off flesh quickly rends
Skin bone flesh stone
Hear him cry hear him moan

Jam down the crown
Thorns in his scalp
Hair rich with blood
Stitches that tear

Hammer deep and slow
Twelve-inch nails wrists to go
See his thumbs retract in
To his pale see-through skin

Hoisted high – see him fly:
Wings of angels? He will die.
Then ugh! Spear and laugh
Share the bloody aftermath

Lazarus

I was dead
And now I live
I once fed
And now must give

She who washed his feet with tears

Many men have I known
They say.
I laid down for them
So they say
Drank their seed
Bought their greed
Their smell still with me
They know nothing
But this one
Was alone
Alone
He drew forth beauty
Knowledge
Truth
From ugliness brought with me
Since youth
Yet which none had made me see
Before
He made me sea
He used force
The force of Light
That confronted illusion
In the fusion
Of His Sight

Judas

I am a faint shade
Will o’ the Wisp
Chasing light and darkness
Blinded by a kiss
Yet to Be
You know, I knew
Now out secret is safe
And my outer limit
Further than any
Except yours.
Your command
Was fire to me
I had little choice
But to obey
Or be a liar.

Herod

Here in the house of war
All is before
My military law

Love is a dead man’s eyes
Picked by flies
Vomit to the skies

Bring to me all the babes
Skewer with staves
Let me see them:
Thus the world is saved

Carpenter

I made the cross
Only doing my job
If I had known
Would I have carried on?

Well
One cross is much the same as another
And if I had not
Someone else would have

And besides –
What was he?

A second rate indigenous rebel?
A rebel without a sword?
Without a word?
What kind of rebel is that?
A failed one,
A stupid one!

No – we need a Messiah
And we get a child
We need a lion
And we get a lamb

Pilate

In my dreams I see him

He holds my hands
Gently brings them to the basin

Then washes them
Himself

The Trial

“Crucify him!”
“Crucify him!”
“Crucify him!”

And he said nothing at all.

“What is truth?”

And he said nothing at all.

Pharisee

Who would be
A Pharisee?

All and any of us
Who refuse

To see?

Littel Song

Jesus Christus
Came to free us
From our self-forged chain

He came to be us
And so he died
Because true love causes pain

Testimony

Blood

My blood

My life trickling back
Into my heart

I WANTED TO BE TRUE!
WANTED TO BE!

Now
Cannot speak
Cannot breathe
Cannot see
Can not
Don’t want to

God:
My God
Their God

COME BACK!

Please please please

Now

Now

Now is the hour of our departing
Now is the hour of our doom
Our parting

(can you hear me?)

C A N Y o u ?

Areyouthereanymore

?
?
?

Speak to me now
Or forever hold your peace
(which defies understanding)

Disintegrating

Incinerating

Integrating

Limb to limb to limb to hair to head to brain to neck
Tobonetoarmtoshouldertofleshtoskintoheqarttoliverto
Thightokneetofoottotoetoveintoribstomuscletosinewtonerve
Eyespi r i t

Huk! Huk!

B r e a t h e b b b b

G O D

I s t h i s a ccomplished?


Fishermen

Here
On the warm beach of morning
Where breakers
Take the tide inward
Towards our hearts
We ward off light
And shade our One walking by

Here
Our nets lie empty
Broken with
The unspoken weight
Of our spirits’ fate
He awakened us and we
Our memories like sand
Upon the beach
Where the tide does not quite reach
Accepted that gift
And followed

What did we see?
A fantastic sun-birth
On a lonely mountain:

A man
Surrounded by crowds
Feeding them with No-thing?

A criminal suspended
Between treachery and despair?

These we saw.
And then
The death of the Vision
The dread-full, fear-full
Dis-organisation of our night
Into the sordid imitation
Of his Light

The Word made flesh
Made rock
Made chains

Here
On the cool beach of evening
Some of us
Could not bear to see him
Alive
Walking upon those waves
Without needing
To crucify him again

Joseph of Arimathea

We took him down
secretly
by night

It is remarkable
What man
Will do to man

It is remarkable
What man
Can endure

The tomb
Had been mine
But what need did I
Have of it?

I was dead already
Always had been
He at least
Had been alive

I wrapped him
According to custom
In a cloth
And the women
His women
Anointed him
Myrrh, frankincense,
The infant gifts prophetic

But by then
He was gone

We placed coins
over his eyes
but he was free

and
even as I lay
awake that night

he
exploded

The Flower Sermon

Jesus: for those
Buddha: who could not see roses
Mohammed: we may have prayed
Lao Tsu: and played!
Socrates: beneath the Law
Jesus: only the Centurion saw
Buddha: when he bowed?
Mohammed: we saw no God but God
Lao Tsu: here and now
Socrates: subject to the Free
Jesus: thus, let us Be !






Edited by Paul Joseph 3/8/2015 4:42 PM
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Aquarius
Posted 3/10/2015 8:50 AM (#25967 - in reply to #21609)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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<p align="center">Dear Paul - a kind of sermon on the mount - with a difference. </p><p align="center">Thank you for sharing it with us. </p><p align="center"> With love - Aquarius</p>

Edited by Aquarius 3/10/2015 8:51 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/10/2015 4:31 PM (#25968 - in reply to #25967)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Forgive me, I did not mean to preach ... sorry if it came across that way
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mruppert
Posted 3/10/2015 5:58 PM (#25969 - in reply to #25968)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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........as has burning and beheading.

Hello Aul (particularly Paul),

I do not think you were preaching at all, methinks you were writing music for the eyes!

However way we believe, I have come to realize that he (whether the son) (or the forebear of the Merovingian kings) DOUBTED! My God My God why have you forsaken me!!

I think this is the curse of those who follow the cross as there is no doubt for those who follow the crescent.

Yours,
Marty and LuckyLee
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Aquarius
Posted 3/11/2015 8:22 AM (#25971 - in reply to #25968)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Paul Joseph - 3/10/2015 10:31 PM Forgive me, I did not mean to preach ... sorry if it came across that way

Don't worry, Paul. Your poem didn't come across as preaching to me. 

With love - Aquarius

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Aquarius
Posted 3/11/2015 8:29 AM (#25972 - in reply to #25969)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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mruppert - 3/10/2015 11:58 PM . . . However way we believe, I have come to realize that he (whether the son) (or the forebear of the Merovingian kings) DOUBTED! My God My God why have you forsaken me!! I think this is the curse of those who follow the cross as there is no doubt for those who follow the crescent. Yours, Marty and LuckyLee

Dear Marty,

I believe that those who walk the way of love have no need for doubting or fearing, whether for the time being they follow the cross or the crescent. Both are merely different pathways that lead up the spiritual mountain, which in the end takes each one of us back into the conscious awareness of God's true nature and our own, which is love. And for those who have woken up to this reality, there is only one way because they understand that:

There is only one religion, the religion of love.
There is only one country, the whole of Mother Earth.
There is only one race, the race of humankind.
There is only one gender and that is androgyny.
There is only one language, the language of the heart.
And there is only one God, the God of love,
The Great Father/Mother of all life
And I, their only born Son/Daughter.
We are one Holy Trinity, who is
Omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.

From ‘The Religion Of The New Age’

With love – Aquarius
 

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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/11/2015 4:28 PM (#25973 - in reply to #25972)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Hi Aquarius

I used to think this too: for around the past four decades of my life have I felt that the Way of Love was the heart of every religion, as described impeccably by Frithjof Schuon, in his Transcendent Unity of Religions. That is what brought me here.

Latterly I have come to think that is wishful thinking.

It seems to depend whether we accept the written tenets of each faith, or whether we adopt an interpretation: hopefully if the world has a future, the interpretation will be adopted, and that intepretation is the one you are promulgating (and for which I pray)

But regrettably, the tenets are increasingly relied upon, especially by those who seek quick answers and who have not examined into themselves.

What eventually I have come to cleave to is the Via Negativa. And in that, imagine dear Leonard Cohen holds some hope in his marvellous line:

"There is a crack, a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in"
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Aquarius
Posted 3/12/2015 8:54 AM (#25977 - in reply to #25973)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Paul Joseph - 3/11/2015 10:28 PM . . . "There is a crack, a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in"

So true, so very true! Let us look for the cracks and send our light through them, as much as possible.

And please, dear Paul, never give up hope!

With love - Aquarius



Edited by Aquarius 3/12/2015 8:55 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 3/12/2015 4:27 PM (#25980 - in reply to #25977)
Subject: Re: What does the Crucifixion mean to you?



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Thanks as ever Aquarius.

Here is a link to lovely Leonard's beautiful song in case you haven't looked it up already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HfvV5CDiiI

Each line is pregnant and poignant with meaning, so it seems to me

Edited by Paul Joseph 3/12/2015 4:28 PM
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