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Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)
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sunflower
Posted 4/18/2008 7:17 AM (#4429 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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hi,i feel obe,s can be a dangerous practice,there are so many layers to go through,some not good.I don,t think it should be encouraged,as people hearing of others good times while doing it,may be tempted to practice,for the fun and thrill of it,i,m not even sure we are meant to be experimenting at all.We all have lucid dreams,where we travel in our sleep,and return to our body before we awake,we learn a lot from this natural state,if we are woken too soon during this travelling,i.e alarm clocks,telephone,etc,we can have problems realighning with our body,so to practice on purpose,i think is not meant to be,and can be very dangerous.I suppose if anyone replies to this,there will be an uproar of denial,and so on,so be it,my thoughts are my own,and not meant to offend others.
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/18/2008 8:02 AM (#4430 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Sun
This forum is pretty good about not attacking people lol. You'll get some input and either take and maybe change your opinion, or reaffirm your
current beliefs. Do you believe that with enough self healing that a person can become in tuned enough with there spiritual self that OBE's may become less of a risk and more beneficial? I tend to believe that you must be at a certain peace within yourself before you could even attain an OBE. Kind of like your guardian angels will not allow you to have one if you aren't ready, by throwing out warning signs such as fear, doubt, an alarm clock distracting you, etc.
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sunflower
Posted 4/18/2008 11:40 AM (#4432 - in reply to #4430)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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hi,no ,sorry,no matter how much self healing,and i think it takes years of self healing just to exist in this world,obe,s are not meant for us to practice.Self healing will get us in touch with our own personal spiritual journey,to help us do what we are put here for,and to attain knowledge,but to puroposely travel through the dimensions,layers,is not intended to be,and is messing about unwittingly,with the laws of the highest spirit realms.We each have our own personal guardian angel,that walks with us throughout our time on earth,to protect,and guide,on our journey,but to practice obe,s would put oneself deliberately in danger,not knowing the consequences.It takes many,many years of practice to get to a stage of high meditation,as practised by gurus,of ancient orogin,it can,t be acheived to that level by classes,or courses,only the basic meditation level is achieved,obviously some more practised than others,these are meant to be,as the world is in dire need of spirit knowledge,at this time,as we are on the verge of a crisis.ok,won,t bore u any more,but thankyou for replying,i am open to all opinions,and beleifs,but on this i stand firm,luv and lite to you my friend.
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ongoingbattle
Posted 4/18/2008 12:09 PM (#4434 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Sun,
There are those that whole heartedly believe i am crazy for thinking my spirit or astral body can leave my physical body. Some would say that everything you think you are experiencing during an OBE is in your head, that you never leave your body, and you just close your eyes and picture the whole experience in your head. You seem to be saying that you do believe OBE's are possible, but we should not be delving into them. If you read in my earlier post about my own OBE, you will probably find it very interesting that i heard a warning telling me to look in, not out, when i felt i was reaching the edge of existence. I love hearing different inputs about the topic, and you have inspired me to spend some serious time looking in. I wonder if i could achieve something similar to an OBE, but will be quite the opposite, AN IBE! Maybe you are right and to really have self-awareness and understanding we should be looking in. Maybe if we look hard enough we can uncover some mysteries about ourselves, maybe even have images, sounds, smells, emotions, or even lessons that we have learned in past lives suddenly come to life and help us grow now... Just some food for thought
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sunflower
Posted 4/18/2008 1:59 PM (#4436 - in reply to #4434)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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hi,inanswer to your question,yes i do beleive people have obe,s,mainly when they are near death,having operations,car crash vitims,etc,they see themselves being worked on by the surgeons,paramedics,and describe all in detail,then they are brought back to life,if you like,and remember the experience.That is to me,the spirit leaving the body,as it does at time of death,to enter into the spirit world,that person was clinicaly dead for a small amount of time,but it was not their time to go,so they were brought back.Our lives are mapped out for us,long before we are born,we choose who our parents are to be,so we can learn what we need,in that carnation,when we have learned what we are here for,our purpose,its time to go home.Some people do not achieve all in one lifetime,so we have to come back,and experience again,the lessons we failed to learn,and on it goes. We,on earth,should concentrate on our own personal journey,and listen to our intuition,our own purpose for being here,meditation is a very good way of geting to know the inner self,the spirit,it helps us to relax,and be more open to spirit guidance.As for learning about your past life,sorry i don,t beleive in regression either,what is gone is gone,another lifetime,we are in the here and now,we only have this moment,sorry if i seem to be a doubter of things many beleive in,i do not take anything away from the,its just my personal thoughts.I think you are on the verge of your own spiritual awakening,meditation will help with that,if you need help ask spirit,or the angels,ho are waiting for our call to help.We are not meant to know all about the spirit home,nor to travel there,deliberately,we do so in our sleep,astral travel,and collect information,knowledge,which we usualy cannot remember on waking,if your dreams are lucid,write them down in a diary,this will be spirit helping you.You say people may think your mad,in that case,if that is their beleif,that makes two of us,good luck on your journey,love and lite to you.
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Chotuni
Posted 4/18/2008 5:25 PM (#4437 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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hi, I have an inate sense of dread of being in water by rocks or near piers etc. despite this I do a lot of snorkelling,even though I still fill with dread, but I overcome this.Anyway, today while I was deeply relaxing I suddenly had a really clear vision of a coastline. this was a series of headlands going off into the distance.I was looking from a perspective of being a few yards from the shore and my sight was at water level.either in a submarine or some such.However I was totally at peace, Usually I would have felt panic. Does anyone think this was an out of body or a memory from a previous life, maybe just before the trauma that causes my present fear? Please let me know your thoughts, thank you kindly.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/18/2008 7:01 PM (#4442 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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I feel anything is possible. Yes it very much could be a memory of a past life, doesn't mean it was an OBE during that life.

I have had plenty of OBE's, some of them i couldn't control, some of them i did. I personally find them exciting and definitely nothing to be afraid of. But if one has fear of it, then they should not go there, until their fear is diminished. I personally do not have a fear of astral travel (or OBE) and I find them both to be one and the same thing.

Death is a permanent OBE from our body, we have been there before, and we will be there again. Our death is just birth back into our real spiritual home. It's no different than our dream state.

Play, have fun and enjoy the freedom of exploring all that there is, after all, we are only stuck in an illusion of being physical.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/18/2008 7:51 PM (#4446 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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I can empathize with Sunflower's concerns ... UMS seems to me to be committed to disseminating sacred truth, some of which in the past times was kept hidden to protect the truth from those who might misuse it. This is partly a democratisation, but also a recognition of the urgency of the times in which we live, that the sacred truths need to be accessible to actually, paradixically, be preserved, and indeed, might help illuminate our dark age. So it is a risk, but i feel, a measured one, that behoves each of us trusting each other and ourselves on the path to be mindful and careful (of ourselves, each other and 'the truth')...

... and the truth shall make us free ...
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/18/2008 8:08 PM (#4448 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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It all depends on what one would "Think" the sacred truth is.... for we each come to our own conclusion, which may be totally different to one, than another. UMS does not represent any single conclusion, I speak of my own....

I can certainly understand the concern too. I just do not share the same feeling personally. I have no fear of OBE at all.
I only share my own experience and feelings.

Again, if one would fear it.... then one shouldn't attempt it. I totally agree~
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sunflower
Posted 4/19/2008 8:31 AM (#4463 - in reply to #4446)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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hi,thanks for post,to me astral traveling,and obe,s are the same thing,i prsonaly think this thread is getting totaly out of hand,and hysteric,soon,because so many are desperate to experience obe,s,because of the "wonderful experiences"they are reading of others,it will turn out like something of the film flatliners,don,t play with fire.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/19/2008 12:06 PM (#4468 - in reply to #4463)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Please understand that just because some of us personally disagree with with feeling that an OBE is dangerous, does not mean it's out of hand, and by all means there is no hysteria here. Disagreeing is not hysteria, it's only sharing other views.

I have yet to ever read in the paper or any case file: person dies from OBE. There is no proof either way. I have never met a single person who was experiencing with OBE's to pass away because of that. I have a lot of friends who do this all the time, and they express very positive outcomes. It's something I absolutely love to do personally. It's freedom out of my body, and I can fly like an eagle.... it's beautiful to me.

Flatliners is very different than what we are talking about: They were shocked into a 'dead' state. I did like the movie, but it's fiction. With OBE's the person is hardly dead, they are very much alive and still very attached to their soul. I can see how that would be a very scary movie, and to relate it to OBE's would make it seemingly frightening.... i agree.

I know of many who not only astral travel daily, but also have enough experience that they wrote books on it, with many positive experiences. I am not going to promote books here, but amazon has many great books available on the subject. UMS also teaches a great course on Astral Traveling with great meditations. I found them to be beautiful, as I really enjoyed them as well as helpful.

I also had a woman on my talk show, that does remote viewing very well (which i feel is also a closely related subject). Another topic very closely related is Past Life Regressions. One cannot go back to a different life in their body, it must be done just like traveling by thought. Which is very similar to astral traveling. It's also not dangerous. I have regressed many people into their past lives and only positive has ever come from it.

I accept that one could personally think it's dangerous, and thus the case, then personally stay away from it. However, those who really want to pursue something like this, they have the right to give it a shot.

We will always have those who think things are dangerous, and other will think it's not. I think it's great to hear more than just my own experiences. I thank everyone for sharing all sides.

Blessings~


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schenn
Posted 4/19/2008 9:30 PM (#4476 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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ahhh OBE's, Negative feelings and etc.

First, and foremost. There is no such thing as hell. It was a creation by a church to instill fear into those who disagreed with their tenets. (One wonders if the Torturer and his thousands of victims they found recently dating back to 500AD might have been in the employ of the church to further propagate this fear)

Secondly, and the second most important. NOTHING has power OVER You. As frightening as something may seem, as powerful as something may seem, YOU have the power to banish it away with your thoughts, very easily at that. Nothing in the universe (save for The Source/Creator/Spirit/Etc) is more powerful then the mind of man (not A man, man as in mankind)

Thirdly, if you are OBE'ing and you do encounter a negative entity... 90% of the negatitve entites that one encounters on the other side are manifestations of internal issues. They derive strength from the high levels of conciouss energy and symbolicaly appear so that you can be made aware of them and do something about them. Being made aware of a negative aspect of ones own personality can be frightening, but the fear "they" create is internal, coming from your own misunderstanding.

OBE's are NOT dangerous. I repeat, NOT dangerous. Death is a permenant OBE and cannot come ahead of time, simply because you leave doesn't mean you can't come back. The universe has been around a lot longer then you and your conciousness, there are safeguards in place for just that reason. (The Astral Cord for example)

Regarding past lives, of course past lives happen. The universal law of energy is no energy can be created, nor destroyed. Concious energy, while being different then hydrogen, is still energy, the same quantum sparks of energy that constructs every filament of matter within the universe. Concious energy does NOT require a 3 dimensional body to stay coherant (the universe is 11 dimensional after all). The ability to remember, however, is upon the individual. Before life, we agree to a set of conditions regarding our life (including access to previously learned information, what our destiny is, who we'll fall in love with, who our families are etc etc etc) In order to function properly, we can not remember everything from past lives clearly as, if we could, we would be unable to discern our lives from each other and it would lead to mental chaos. This agreement is referred to in Paganistic circles as your "contract"

This is why OBE'ing, Astral projecting, Past Life regression, heck, spiritual things in general, require a lot of prequisites to be clear first. One must have a healthy sense of self, ego and spirit. One must have a strong head on their shoulders (many who don't are still able to play with reality, though, their minds arnt as safe from the effects, though they are unfortunatly cursed with their broken mind beforehand) One SHOULD have a good heart (though that doesnt always make it so... for more on that, we'd require additional conversations, let me just say look at a Ying/Yang symbol. Though ego and Divine are seperate, they are still part of the same whole... Thats an important thing to remember) The universe, generally, will not LET you explore where youre not supposed to for your own protection.

In conclusion: Do NOT be afraid. Fear is your animal instinct of self preservation kicking in because its going through something that animal minds just do NOT understand and is technically similair to death (though fully capable of supporting itself in a kind of suspended animation, pay attention to your breathing while OBE, you'll notice what I mean). Understand your fear, then comfort your animal self. It's experiencing something new and unique. and like a child would really like someone to hold its hand into this strange and unfamiliar territory.

Schenn
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schenn
Posted 4/19/2008 9:37 PM (#4477 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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And Chotuni, It does sound like a Past Life experience, but that doesn't mean you were out of body at that moment in your past life. You could be remembering a life on the ocean and it may have been a very nice life (which would be why you seem comforted by it) OR

you could be being called by the ocean. The ocean is a very powerful energy transformer (which is why humans have a tendency to habitate near the coasts of bodies of undrinkable water) The ocean is wonderful for this purpose. It's great for flushing out negatives and filling oneself with the energy of the world!! Such a wonderful experience. I bury myself in the sand by the ocean whenever I get a chance to go and just become one with it. A wonderful experience I must say.

Edited by schenn 4/19/2008 9:38 PM
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/19/2008 11:08 PM (#4482 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Ahhhhh..... I personally share the same feelings as Schenn too.

But i have to say that the belief system is strong, and unfortunately others will find this concept very scary. I wish that I could better share my own experiences, so they would shine some light on the fear.... but one has to find their own truth.

I found my truth, which I have to confirm that my own findings are very close to what Schenn states indeed.

Blessings~


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schenn
Posted 4/19/2008 11:28 PM (#4484 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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The universe has been kind to me in revealing it's secrets. Though, I must admit, I have been digging for many lifetimes...
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/20/2008 12:22 AM (#4494 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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You are not alone.... the journey has held several of us. Nice to meet you AGAIN!
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mruppert
Posted 4/20/2008 2:49 AM (#4497 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Hi all:
     Dangerous? Well, everything in life presents some sort of challenge.
      Statistics tell us it is safer to fly than to drive a car, but, tell that to yourself as your plane goes down....and you will derive little comfort from it.
       Ancient humankind life was fraught with danger! It is no different now, just danger in a different guise, sometimes unknown.
       As Doc will tell you all (and SunFleur in particular), I do not believe in things that I haven't personally experienced, but I do not discount them, i.e, I  think that there are ghosts, but I haven't seen one, so I can't really say.
       Now, I was in my old college apartment, in Washington, DC  and I saw what was there. But, I was here in Elkridge, Maryland. Realizing that I could have been mistaken in my perception, I went to see. Why? Because I felt compelled to.
The curtains in the windows was enough evidence to tell me that I had "really" been there.
        Sunnypetals....was I ill at ease upon this discovery? Well, of course...because I started to think about "me". Was I naked? Was I dressed? How would I have looked to someone who might have seen me? But, none of that made a bit of difference.  
        I felt elated by the experience and, somehow, more at peace.
        Then, silly stupid me tries to duplicate it. And, I find that I cannot call it up on will alone, even though playing the same music which I think caused it to happen. HOWEVER, playing the same music, and going into a state of mind that is similar, I find myself "waking" up hours later....with no idea where I have been. The music plays 66 minutes. At times, I have put it on at say, 2330, and I hear the end of the song at 0430. The music plays 66 (sixtysix) minutes, not 5 hours.
         And, no, I don't have a sound system that repeat plays...it si an older Bose system (circa 2000) that plays once and shuts off.

Peace n' Luv,
Marty and Audioastral Cats
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/20/2008 11:14 AM (#4506 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Wow, that is very interesting. Do you think you warped through time somehow?

Have you seen the Mothman Prophecies? He (Richard Gere) warped through time and space traveling and ended up somewhere very far away that would have normally taken him much more time to reach.

The thing about Mothman is: it's totally based on a true story.

It also happened just three hours away from where i live.

Astrally, he traveled, but actually warped in time, through a different realm. Science has proven it's possible too.

I will start a new thread, with a video i want everyone to watch if they can.

Look for: Time Travel

Blessings~
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/20/2008 12:04 PM (#4509 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Mothman Prophecies was fascinating. I dipped into Autobiography of a Yogi today by Paramhansa Yoganand to see if he offered any guidance on this, as he discussed his experiences of bilocation and astral travel. He indicated that some yogic pactices were indeed only taught at the higher esoteric levels. But he died in c.1952, and as indicated elsewhere, the suggestions are that our Age needs all the help it (we) can get; and that need outweighs the concerns about misuse of psychic powers, or the risks to which we might voluntarily expose ourselves.

I agree that the negative forces/vibes/energies we might encounter come from within, and there is nothing to fear, ultimately, but some of us have deeper inner terrors than others perhaps, hence the need for guidance and healing.

I think, as with many things, its a paradox. We are working in our dimension, which we have chosen to do by becoming incarnated. We should not forget the other dimesnions ('in my father's house are many mansions'); so we are what we are, yet we are also what we could be - if we only knew and embraced that fact!
Blessings
Paul
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schenn
Posted 4/22/2008 2:17 PM (#4548 - in reply to #4509)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Huzzah Paul, excellent post!
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Tracy
Posted 4/22/2008 3:21 PM (#4551 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)


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Thanks Paul!
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/22/2008 4:38 PM (#4556 - in reply to #4548)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Thanks Schenn and Tracy, for your wonderful commendations ... ! (UK online feels a long way away, but clearly, that is just another of those necessary illusions)
Paul
(or PJ as mruppert nicely referred to me !)
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mruppert
Posted 4/22/2008 7:35 PM (#4558 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Hi Paul:
     You are not far away at all! I am in the States, but almost all of my friends are in the UK, mainly Bristol. I see and talk to my research associate almost every evening, via Skypeeeee, in Hanham Bristol....er...I am in the Statesel, as Bristollians like to put an l on the end of things...they go to ASDAL, and you go to ASDA, but you all go to Tesco.
      Hey Paul..you are in London...have you been to Treadwells? I could really grow to love a place like that.
      For all, Treadwells is an esoteric book shoppe, and I use that spelling in a very direct sense. Walk in and you are mired in things metaphysical....it could have well been a prop in the Harry Potter movies. And the lectures.....omg!!!!!!!!

Peace,
Marty and awl la-de-dah Cats, Lucky, Poppster, and the Sisssss
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/23/2008 5:52 AM (#4568 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Hellor Marty, I do not know Treadwells (do you know where it is please?), but I know Mysteries near Four Dials, and Watkins, Cecil Court, both with excellent esoteric stock. I actaully work for the Methodist church (www.wlm.org.uk), but in a professional social work capacity and am not a Methodist, though my UMS leanings create an interesting dynamic. Your ether-net contacts well describe the way in which technology has manifested the powers of consiousness in the material world (eg, distant materialisation through webcam, etc). Another fascinating paradox, although the technology is dependent on industrialisation, work-slavery and earth exploitation, whereas consciousness just Is. In that sense they are also perhaps a good example of the way in which this dimension/world/reality is a mirror image of the Eternal Self/World/Heaven/Bliss ....

I read a story about a Native American elder who was told that man had landed on the moon, who replied, 'oh that's nothing, my grandfather [a shaman] went there many times' !!

Love & Light
Paul
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Paul Joseph
Posted 4/23/2008 5:53 AM (#4569 - in reply to #14)
Subject: RE: Astral Projection (Out Of Body Experiences, OBEs)



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Sorry, Mysteries is near Seven Dials, not Four !!!
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