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WWAMD?
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mruppert
Posted 6/8/2010 8:46 PM (#19522)
Subject: WWAMD?



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Hi all:
    I am doing some reading which gives the reader a purely scientific view. But, I would like to also hear (read) a Metaphysician's view, hence the title of the post "What Would A Metaphysician Do?"
    Twelve events that may happen have been defined as "changing everything" events. I would love to see how you all feel about these things.
    I guess we should try them one at a time.
    So, here goes the first event whose probability of happening is high but not imminent.
    Suppose we successfully clone a human being?

Peace and Love,

Marty, Marty2 and Lucky, Poppy, Sissy


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leo
Posted 6/8/2010 10:24 PM (#19523 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Marty et al, Well I am certainly glad to see that someone is out there. The board has been very quiet. Now, I can only submit what I know of we as a human race. We are first of all spirit, and that spirit was given to us by the Creator through His consciousness. If we create, then we are not capable of creating consciousness. Since we process through our subconscious into our ego/mind, then it would seem that we would have a being without consciousness. A being without a conscious awareness. No spirit, no awareness of God, no way to process thought. Our thought process is directly affected by our inner guidence system.

All newly created spiritualy entities who come to earth go through an extensieve training program. All others who have been here time and time again allready know. Before I continue, this has been told to me through a channeled spiritual source who is very close to Source. I seem to remember that you're not real big on channeling. Oh, well. It is what it is. As I was saying any created being would not have a spirit, hence no soul. I'm certain that I would want to steer clear of such a thing.

Of course all of our cells communicate with each other. so perhaps the cells used to create such an entity may have understanding of all and pass the spiritual info on through it's own knowledge. Well there you have it my 2 cents worth.
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leo
Posted 6/9/2010 7:52 AM (#19524 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Another thought, since the spirit enters the developing child between the third to ninth month and sometimes at birth. Then perhaps the cloned child would receive a spirit in that respect. Of course that would depend upon the spirit, if it was willing to enter such a child.

I'll have to ask my spirit mentor. We know what happened to the cloned sheep Dolly, lung problems and premature death. Having been a biology teacher, I'm sort of on the fence on this one. The scientist side of me says sure why not, however the metaphysican side says don't fool with mother nature.

Edited by leo 6/9/2010 7:53 AM
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/18/2010 7:45 PM (#19531 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Cloning doesn't mean it wouldn't have a soul... for God created cloning, hence by giving man the brain to figure it out. Maybe a fake way to do it, but... perhaps not fake if it's real. Perhaps souls are wanting to come in already as an adult... might be fun. Why not? I don't want to underestimate anything that is possible through God. Just my few cents worth.... may or may not be what anyone else thinks. May however save a life.... bone marrow transplant, etc. With the permission of the cloned person.
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leo
Posted 6/19/2010 12:30 PM (#19534 - in reply to #19531)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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It is my understanding that only humans have souls. Told to me by Zen. Spirits who have never been in the flesh do not have souls. Anyway, who knows? Haven't gotten Zen's thoughts yet.

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mruppert
Posted 6/26/2010 9:38 PM (#19570 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Ahhhhh.........I see by the responses that there is muddy water to tread through when trying to understand and discuss cloning. So, what exactly is a clone?
If my copy is EXACTLY me, then my copy has the same soul and spirit as I do. I am my soul and spirit. The genes that produce me, when replicated produce me again. Would my copy be any less soulful or spiritual?????
The healer has genes that produce another healer in the proper circumstance. Would not a copy produce a healer?

Peace and Genomes,
Marty and Gnome Cats, Lucky, Poppy, Sissy
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/27/2010 12:18 AM (#19576 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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It would be unwise for us to automatically assume either way. I simply do not know, and as human, we just don't have that information to find out one way or the other for sure.

I would like to think that all intelligence, while walking on earth, have souls, regardless. Test tube babies, lab created humans alike. I simply cannot KNOW this as fact.

I may even assume that some people LACK a soul. I can name a few that show ZERO human emotion or compassion.

What about twins? Is it possible, they SHARE a soul?

I know the twin I was once married to sure lacked human emotion.

WHAT exactly IS a soul anyway?

Is it just our energy?

If souls are not needed when we leave, then perhaps it's just our emotions. I don't know.

I would think we get to keep our love.... our emotions... the part that makes us have compassion.
Perhaps that IS the soul. If we no longer need it... we leave. Or... walk as droids?

Just thinking..... Deeply..... as usual.
Blessings~


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mruppert
Posted 6/27/2010 12:53 AM (#19577 - in reply to #19576)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Hey Doc......
     I just noticed "former host". Did you turn the hosting duties over to someone else?

     Yes indeed, cloning is difficult, but we have to deal with it. It is the most imminent of the twelve things I will ask....asamattaoffac I am surprised that someone somewhere has not yet announced the successful cloning of a human. It is a matter of time.
     Artificially intelligent things pose no real threat in metaphysics. A robot is still a robot no matter what the name is...from Furbie to Robbie to Data....or whatever the Star Trek robotperson was named. Blast them with a ray gun and you wrecked a machine. Blast a clone and you waste a human life. A HUMAN life.

Peace and Love to Ya......
Marty and Furbiecats, Luck, Popp and Sissy
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leo
Posted 6/27/2010 8:54 AM (#19581 - in reply to #19577)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Well, first of all your not gonna like this as it came from a channeled spirit. No, I wasn't drinking beer and had to get up and miss any part of it. As we humans have decided to be part of the earthly existence, yes, we chose to come here, yes and God only knows why! not really, but I digress, anyway we have every right as an infinite spiritual being to chose our next life experience or not to chose either way. Sounds like an echo, I believe I've said this before however, not about the clone thing. My point, yes, there is a point, that it could be a possibility that a being in transition could say "Ya know, I kinda think I like that clone thing, what the hell, I think I'll give it a shot." As spirit enters the developing fetus. Some enter at conception and/or at others times, some even at the moment of birth. We decide before birth what it is we want to accomplish or what it is we want to experience. So, since each spirit is an individual spirit it would seem to make sense that a cloned human would get a spirit that choses that individual. I'm not sure if I would chose such but there could be an adventerous spirit that say's "I'll give it a try." I belive it could go down like that.

Well Marty I know you think some of what I say (or maybe even all of it) is hogwash but I think it's reasonable.

ps Spirit is not a physical part of your body. Science has tried to find our consciousness and failed up to this point. However it appears the quantum physics is begining to put it together. All is part of the whole, we are all connected. Anyway the development of genes isn't a part of the spirit process. The spirit can enter at any point of development. It's kinda like "OK all you cells listen up, I'm here now and hold on caus it's gonna be a wild ride".

Edited by leo 6/27/2010 9:07 AM
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mruppert
Posted 6/27/2010 9:38 AM (#19583 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Hi Leo.....very reasonable!
Oh, BTW, I have nothing against channeling and channelers. I believe it happens and I think one  might argue that there is credible evidence of it.
I do have many issues with  channelers for profit. First of all, shouldn't the money go to the spirit? That's the entity working up a sweat. Wait-a-minute! What would a spirit need money for?
Do spirits have to pay for using the "ether"net???????????

Happy Sunday Morning,  and Peace to you Leo;
Marty, + 3 Sleepyheads
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leo
Posted 6/27/2010 9:49 AM (#19586 - in reply to #19583)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Marty my man, you are over the top. No I don't believe they have a need for money, besides they have no pockets to carry it in. They just appreciate a "thank you" . They are truly happy to help out where they can. Most only have a couple of rules of the road if you will, 1. will not interfere with your free will and 2. really don't like to predict the future. I find those who predict the future a bit bogus. An entity knows that because of our free will we affect our future, so that being said the future as stated could be changed by just one bad move on your part.

I find our channeling to be of great assistence. We have helped a couple of folks with channeled info no fee of course. Thats not what its about.

Peace right back at you
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BullHorn
Posted 7/7/2010 6:19 AM (#19607 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?


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Hello all. First time post.
Cloning a human being may be sensitive to those who find a distinction between natural human procreation and artificial human procreation. It seems to me that those two phrases are just labels we use in order to make a distinction in the first place. Energy is energy and its expression is what it is. It is far beyond our understanding being that so many of us have attachments to our ego and collective ego. In terms of what or whom may have a soul may have more to do with sublte energies as opposed to physical matter (flesh and bones = humans, who only have souls....?). Inside of all the Quantum Weirdness we find that all energy is connected, and if that is the case all spirits and souls and humans and everything shares the same root, therefore we may have an individual way of identifying ourselves or others as spirits and/or having a soul, but in reality we all share the same oversoul. Nevertheless, I think it is more important to shed labels and try to find the whole with our capabilities.
When we create a human clone, the best and worst of our human expression will come about. It will be a paradigm shift. It may cause hatred in some and in others it will inspire a new appreciation for life. And if in the near or distant future cloned humans are a part of our daily reality, those who are awakened must make sure to afford them the same rights and dignity as naturally birthed humans.

PS- Why do so many refer to God or the Creator as "he" or "him". I never understood the need for a male or female designation. Does he or she have a penis or vagina? Does he or she indentify themselves as he or she or do you think whoever it is may be beyond all that labeling?

Peace =)
Ken
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Nefertiti
Posted 7/7/2010 9:26 AM (#19609 - in reply to #19607)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Welcome Bullhorn

Cloning, if it's identical to another person, with their memories is just plain weird. That would be like another ME, lab created with my own memories that THEY did not experience, but I did. When they gain their own experiences, then perhaps that is what it's all about. Life here is only all about gaining experience. Obviously they planned to start out as a cloned human, I would imagine to be able to skip some experiences they did not like as a child, teen, or what ever.

I do believe a soul or the energy core is still given same as natural. Whether it be part of the cloned soul.... we don't know and can only speculate. I am sure the supreme or omni present would know.

Often, we refer to God as Him/her, just as a reference. Just as we call ourselves human and a dog a dog. I bet we got many of those wrong.... ha ha ha but we all have a need to give everything some sort of name. giving a sex is just also a GUESS. For we know that two humans make up another and we are all here, so it had to start from some sort of conception from both. I think Omni present God, is both.... ALL and not separated. But we can only guess at that too.

Even if our guides tell us stuff, we have to take it as their truth, while we piece it together. If we believe what we hear, and perhaps are shown some sort of convincing experience, they we will know beyond a shadow of doubt as our truth.... and then faith walks in to become a part of us. Faith in God is something different to each and every one of us, but as long as it's helpful... so be it.

LOVE and LIGHT



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BullHorn
Posted 7/7/2010 6:52 PM (#19611 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?


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Hello Nefertiti,
I agree that it would be weird but only because of our attachment to what we would consider "our" experiences. If we do live in a holographic parrallel multiverse, then there are many versions of us already out there having their own experiences. Who's to say whose experience is more valid or real?
Also, if procreation is whats at stake, then there will be those that would say that only male/female copulation counts as actual natural procreation. How about those who are impregnated by medical means which by definition is an artificial means of procreation?
I do not believe that a clone would have the same memories as the master copy, being that each energetic expression is able to receive and transmit consciousness on their own. To have a clone have the same memories would entail a direct transfer or sharing of consciousness. Perhaps with quantum computing??

In terms of what "god" is, I for one believe in the supremacy of natural order. God, Goddess, Faith- these are just words that already carry a certain set of expectations and prejudices.
Natural Law is found everywhere in the multiverse. I agree that there was a conception of opposing forces that brought forth existence but the attachment of labels to that force is something I believe is not necessary being that it categorizes something that is beyond catergorization. That type of language causes many to view "god" as something outside of themselves. I belieive we are all "god", we are individual expressions of a greater whole.
For example look at DNA. The complete copy of "me" is coded in my DNA. You could theoretically make another me if you could extract DNA from my hair cell, or muscle cell, or skin cell, or blood cell etc.... It seems that nature has done an excellent job in showing us exactly how things work and that natural law governs both the macro and the micro.

Well, its so good to be here and bounce ideas around!

Thanks for listening
Peace
Ken
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/9/2010 1:16 PM (#19614 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?



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Hello and welcome Ken ... the UMS has lots of courses about the nature of the Divine, even admitting of course that using that phrase is potentially ascribing a limitation ....
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BullHorn
Posted 7/9/2010 8:38 PM (#19617 - in reply to #19522)
Subject: RE: WWAMD?


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Thanks Paul!
UMS has been an awesome experience for me, I am almost done with my studies (just have to get crackin' on my dissertation lol).
The Divine is actually a better descriptor in my opinion since it does not carry with it any prejudice in terms of assigning a gender or cultural bias to whatever or whoever the creator is. Our early ancestors experienced/worshipped the divine in its most simplest form. Water, the Sun, Earth, stars etc.... it wasn't until the proliferation of language and the gelling of small communities that the Divine began to transform into what became the first gender and culturally assigned "Gods". Language itself is limiting by nature since it works only to categorize what we are experiencing. I feel that although language has its place, we have forgotten the power it holds over peoples minds and their belief systems. In some ways we have learned to speak but have forgotten how to feel.
If there is one thing that my own experience and the courses of UMS have taught me is that we as humans have the ability to become aware of a deeper reality and one of the ways to help experience that reality is by shedding as best we can all of our preconceived notions and programming we have all been subjected to through our earthly lives thus far.
Gotta go make dinner so take care everyone =)
Peace !
Ken

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