Why Pray?
instinctual
Posted 7/31/2008 2:09 PM (#8116)
Subject: Why Pray?



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If we believe that it is God's will that propels us through life, or if we believe that we Are God/The Divine and are given free will to make our own choices, what are we praying for? Is "prayer" merely an attempt to create magic or manifest what we wish for through manipulation? OF course there are people who range from Sylvia Browne to Edgar Cayce who believe that even though we accept the lifetimes we are born into, there is a way to either "petition the counsel" or, through the accessing of our Akashic records, to actually have the course of our lives be altered. I would love to hear thoughts and read responses on this. Thanks to all for reading this and adding to it!

Lori
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/31/2008 4:31 PM (#8117 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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We pray to remember ourselves in the Divine.

Namaste
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Tracy Martin
Posted 7/31/2008 4:46 PM (#8119 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray because sometimes I get trapped in the treadmill of my thoughts and emotions and can't get off.
I pray because sometimes a wisdom and a power is needed to work far beyond my sphere of influence.
I pray because I love to connect with the divine and feel that love and acceptance and wisdom.  
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/1/2008 4:31 AM (#8150 - in reply to #8117)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I read this quickly last night in a brief moment and thought it said why do we pray; so i replied as ,we . but as Tracy indicates, we can only speak for ourselves ! ... Sorry 'buot that ...

I still think I pray for the reasons stated there, except to amplify, I am reticent about intercessionary prayer because it can seem as if we are seeking to manipulate the Divine ...thuogh if we believe in vibrational energy as a form of healing, we can simply seek to see ourselves as vehicles for whatever the Divine wills ...

I think many of the greatest mystics and sages, renounced prayer, as being a humanised technique for limiting God, and sought to incarnate prayer as a total way of total life ... but that requires intense and perpetual discipline, else otherwise we, I, find myself forgetting ...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/1/2008 4:50 AM (#8153 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Right on, Cara. Thanx for getting me to clarify !
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sunflower
Posted 8/1/2008 10:11 AM (#8199 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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do you know,i was thinking of this very same thing last night.Some peope say you shoud never use gods name in vain,accepted,yet daily,we in our minds say things like,oh god,why did that have to happen,if we are say frustrated,if things get too much,we may say,oh god help me,its as if we are talking to ourselves.Maybe we are asking the divine for answers,subconciousy,or,as i beleive we are all god,ie,god is us,me you,so on,we are asking our higher self,just a thought.love,irisx
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Chotuni
Posted 8/1/2008 10:15 AM (#8201 - in reply to #8199)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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I pray because I hope
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instinctual
Posted 8/1/2008 2:31 PM (#8209 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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What amazing thoughts from my amazing friends. You all brought up various aspects of my personal take on prayer. I guess my concern is the manipulation that you also mentioned,

Paul...not to suggest you feel that way, but that you mentioned the word like I did . Perhaps I feel that manipulation has a negative connotation, and I would feel more comfortable using manifestation?

I fear if I am manifesting events, circumstances, etc- in my future by praying for events or things that may not be plotted out for me, what is the point? On the flip side of this cosmic

coin, 2 people recently informed me ........

that I have taken on a hard life. While I agree this has been true, I don't want a hard life, anymore! I want health joy and prosperity! IF I just sat down to accept this as my lot, I would be a Martyr, no thank you!!!!!!!!!!!


I must be honest here. At times I find myself not praying, not meditating, not connecting to the spark of the divine within my self, just sort of surrendering to the powers that be. However I

have to say that when I take a moment retrospectively, I realize that I engage in a constant "unintentional" stream of prayer and meditation all day long, and as Chotuni so simply,

eloquently and beautifully stated, I have Hope. I realize that although it is not conscious, ie, "I am going to sit and pray and or meditate right now", it is always within my internal soul dialog.

My inner self, my spark. Perhaps I am in a constant state of prayer? And also as I often refer to Mother Theresa, the absolute definition of faith had an inner knowing on a cellular level

that she believed in the work of Jesus Christ, yet her elevated spirit and mind did not recognize it...she just kept on plugging! Perhaps I find myself at a crossroads regarding my own

personal beliefs? Perhaps I want to, or am being led to a religion or system which celebrates manifestation, as long as it harms no one ? I am grateful to be able to share these very

personal feelings with you all.

Love and Happy Things,
Lori


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instinctual
Posted 8/1/2008 5:25 PM (#8214 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Thank you kindly, Cara Mia xo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 8:56 AM (#8418 - in reply to #8214)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Looking back, feel this is a really important thread and topic.

Agree to some extent with Sunflower about taking God's name in vain and it does distrub me when I hear people say, 'Oh - gawd', etc ...

Agree also that prayer can be perceived as manipulation, 'gimme, gimme gimme', etc ....

~Often think back to Jesus, quoted as asking for his particular cup tobe taken from him, but, if the Higher Power willed it, - 'Thy will not my will be done'.

So, back then to surrender - love, devotion and surrender - yet equally, how difficult that can be

To lie back in the arms of the Divine and be propelled or impelled into the union in which we already are ...

which takes me back to my original response !

Namaste, in prayer
Paulo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 9:59 AM (#8439 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A playful response:

'Why pray?'

Answer

'What else should we do' ?!
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 1:46 PM (#8484 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Last week, I started this thread, and my internal dialog was one of disillusionment and lack of faith. An event was presented to myself and my family this weekend that is trying to teach me that prayer does indeed work, faith has no boundaries, and all happens for the best. How wonderful and timely this event was. Ugh....The great Divine said..."Lori? Let me give you a reason to depend on me. Let me give you a reason to pray. Let me reassure you that faith is indeed beautiful".

I am so happy we are all enjoying this!

L
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 2:59 PM (#8495 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Yes my friend Cara, that is more than OK...I guess I posted that because I am reaching out. Please pray for the safety and wellbeing of my beautiful innocent and precious 3 month old grand daughter Jordyn. This is more than a request for magical manifestation. She needs protection, as does my son.
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 4:57 PM (#8515 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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At risk of making waves, I cannot but not say, I said, 'partially', because I feel that truly resonant vibrancy is to act consciously. I thus think it limits ourselves and damages God, yes I do think that 'God' can be damaged, the truly really, gentle God in our hearts, if we use her or him as some kind of curse or last resort of some scoundrelsy that we ourselves might have committed.

However, back to Lori, Jordyn and the Divine Real-ness-es,

Back also to the Biblical prayer guidance, we are enjoined to pray as if, 'as if', the miracle of prayer-realization had happened. That is, to first of all, give thanks, 'as if' : in other words, I think, interpret, whatever, there is something in the act of prayer, being prayerful, that,

we are told,

if we believe it, truly, it is possible -

if it accords with the Divine Will:

and if it doesn't, then what will be for the best will unfold anyway, provided we pray for it.

This sounds terribly ruthless, I know, and I know nothing of dear Lori's situation, and my prayers even now are seeking to align myself with the Best:

Miranda in The Tempest: "everything happens for the best in this, the best possible of all worlds" (haven't checked that oft repeated quote I come back to again and again -if only to convince myself!)

Our faith can move mountains, yet mountains do not seem to move. Though the Buddhist saint Milarepa pushed his hand into a mountain (the print is still there, so I am told) - not to show his king fu, but to demonstrate the reality of energy.

Sorry, wandering off: Lori, my prayers are with you, send me a PM if this reads like nonsense or if you want to commune some more xx

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/4/2008 4:59 PM
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instinctual
Posted 8/4/2008 5:04 PM (#8517 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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That is so appreciated, I am grateful. You know, I always lay fetal when I sleep, and as I shared with some here already when I automatically assume a back lying position it means I am ready to astral travel. Well, last night I woke because I realized that my eyes were fluttering, my arms were both over my head and my heart was skipping beats. When I watched my grand daughter peacefully in her slumber this morning, I realized that I was taking on her natural body position which is exactly what I just stated. I feel like I allowed myself to receive her, if that makes any sense. Oh, what a crappy day....why does life present you with such challenges? I don't want to learn any more lessons!!!!!!

Thank you for your prayers, Cara...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/4/2008 10:43 PM (#8535 - in reply to #8517)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Sorry for your crappy day Lori; what can one say that doesn't sound trite at such times ... just hope for you & yours that things become brighter x

&
Holy Blessings

Paul

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/4/2008 10:43 PM
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Supernatural3
Posted 8/5/2008 12:21 AM (#8554 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray, because sometimes this place really SUCKS.

but most the time, it's beautiful... so I chat, in thanks, instead.

Then I prey..... because I can. LOL
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Tracy Martin
Posted 8/5/2008 1:00 AM (#8556 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Lori, you have a soul-full connection with your granddaughter.  She is here, in part, to show you an even wider perspective of the power of love and the wonder of life. Perhaps, whatever the situation may be, she is here to show you how to let go of fear, and to trust in the soul's divine purpose and passion. You have a strong bond with her, and can strengthen her and the people around her with your highest, lightest, most loving thoughts, and your most grounded and steady earth energy. Joining with her in spirit planes, you can be a magnet of attraction for her highest good. Know that your compassion and good will are aligned with powerful forces which seek the best for you and those whom you influence. Don't let your mind be attached to fearful thoughts about the future, let those thoughts go. Be presently aware of loving energy surrounding and emanating from your granddaughter. Our children's children will have their challenges to face, but I believe they are going to surprise us with their wisdom and grace. I am speaking as a grandmother too, already aware of the personal challenges my own granddaughter faces, letting anxiety about future suffering go, and feeding the wondrously bright energy of her spirit now. 
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/5/2008 2:57 AM (#8560 - in reply to #8556)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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wise words, wise women !
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instinctual
Posted 8/5/2008 10:17 AM (#8571 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Oh Tracy..


Sigh..I am so touched by your post, I am just stunned with the outpouring...your words resonate such peaceful truth...they are so healing to me..they will keep me grounded and glued...my feelings do stem of of complete fear...I must let it go..I must let it ride its own course separate from my self...I must be present in the gift I was given in her...
So much love and light to you, and all my dear friends here who have reached out and touched me so sweetly and kindly...
Always,
Lori
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Rose
Posted 8/5/2008 7:46 PM (#8582 - in reply to #8495)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Oh yes I always keep you and yours in my prayers Instinctual. I pray for everyone and their families that cross the path of UMS....somehow I feel we're all closely connected in some way.

I pray daily and yes meditate...somehow it seems to bring me to a happy and balanced place. It's when I don't pray/meditate that I feel things are out of balance somehow. Prayer and meditation bring me to a peaceful place of existence. The place we go when we pray is home, it's here that I feel I am the visitor.

Love and Peace to you Instinctual and everyone who crosses our path here.
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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 1:36 PM (#8641 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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((((Rose)))) sweet lady...thank you. Your blessings are returned to you, always...Hope all is well...staying cool over there??

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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 2:13 PM (#8649 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Cara-
That is so kind and lovely. It rings such truth. I do have faith that all is working as it should...and this event in our lives happened days after I questioned what faith indeed is...so how is that for a message and validation??? More than an ah ha! moment or an angel wink. In fact, it was the B O N K on the head that I refer to in my own web site, my own teachings...
Time to take my own medicine!

Blessings to you, sweet Cara...xox

Thank you too!
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instinctual
Posted 8/6/2008 6:01 PM (#8663 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Those are beautiful passages, thank you for sharing them.. xo
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 8:58 AM (#8711 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Cara - that is also one of don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreements

... Lori - I really must check out that web-site of yours, thanks ...

..... I have been wondering if I should put Saint Theresa's wonderful maxim, as a signature, (mentioned it before I think but always worth another plug):

" All the way to Heaven is Heaven"
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 9:52 AM (#8719 - in reply to #8711)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Hi Pablo, et al:
     I am a slave to William James, to the respect that I think of "The Varieties of Religious Experience" as sort of a bible. I am a student of  religious experience, in all of its manifestations. I have learned from Dr. James (and secondarily from Dr. Carl Jung) that "religion" and religious experience are two very separate and distinct things......they oftentimes coincide, but just as often do not.
     I am Roman Catholic by trade, but very rarely pray in a RC church, as it is meaningless to me.....though I thought more of it when we did stuff in Latin. I cannot explain why I maintain a firm and positive belief in RCism, other than to say that I studied the early "church" and am aware of our beliefs in many Gods and mystical forms of worship and communion. Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT believe in the hierachical RC church of today....but I still love the pretty buildings, the iconography, and many of the ceeremonial trappings.
     When I pray, it is not a conscious act, nor directed at one god. It is moreso a fervant desire that the cosmic energy that the world is, alter itself somehow to grant my plea on behalf of one, or another, or many; or everyone.
     I ask for world peace and harmony....and I am told by multitudes that I am naive and foolish. But, who is really the fool? Who is naive? I know that people thrive on war and disharmony.....and that is why I pray for them......they just can't see it.....they just don't know it......they just don't get it!
But WHEN my prayers are granted, think of what it will mean for them! They will have seen what I see!!!!!!

Peace n' Luv,
Marty and Luckylee(Zoroastrian); Poppyhead(Episcopalian) and SissyGirl(CosmicCat)
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 10:04 AM (#8720 - in reply to #8719)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Absolutely d'acquerdo (? trying to say I agree in Espagnol!! ) Marty ... nice to be 'in real time' with you here ...

did you see the other day I mentioned the - was it St Paul quote? - 'The foolishness of God exceeds the wisdom of men' ? ... as St Francis said, or paraphrased, let us all be fools of God !

Have you read

The White Goddess, by Robert Graves ? It is a - possibly the - study of what he terms 'poetic myth' but it extends far beyond that, and is a depth study of myth, legend and fable from around the world, that basically concludes that most of our contemporary religions are patriarchal and are an attempt, conscious or unconscious, to stamp out the underlying and preceding worship of the Moon Goddess, Divine Mother, the Divine Feminine.

Blessed Be She

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/7/2008 10:05 AM
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 10:27 AM (#8725 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Hey PJay:
How the heck are ya?
I appreciate the reference, and I will certainly get the book....when I will read it is another question...too many and not enough time!
I enjoyed a flic many years ago, called "The Hospital" for many reasons. Particularly the harried administrator, who told the demonstrators,  "you take it....if you think you can run it....take it!" This would be a must see for all of our little MBA's running around now.
But the one catch line that always lives in my memory is:
Edmund Drummond:I am the fool for Christ, the Paraclete of Caborca.

Peace n' Love,
Marty and sleepyhead kittykats
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2008 10:34 AM (#8727 - in reply to #8725)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Thanks & buena vista baby (?! ) .... did you know i have an MBA in educational management (grade A no less) Ha - not showing off, well I am i guess, but also just wanted

a) to show we are in a similar game &

b) rebut those issues certain parties have raised about the status of UMS courses, etc ...

and as for relevant film quotes, that is a good one ... slightly different, but good on the prayer theme is from Cool Hand Luke, where Luke (played by Paul Newman) is asked by a prison guard, if he knows what the meaning of respect is, Luke's reply is:

"yeah, its what ya gotta give, so that you can get it"

be well my friend
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mruppert
Posted 8/7/2008 12:15 PM (#8752 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Splendid, beautiful line!

So, in return, I offer you this...by a gentleman who also wrote the ballad of my beloved ( but gone ) Isis:

"Gotta Serve Somebody"

You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might be a rock'n' roll addict prancing on the stage
Might have money and drugs at your commands, women in a cage
You may be a business man or some high degree thief
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a state trooper, you might be an young turk
You may be the head of some big TV network
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame
You may be living in another country under another name.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a construction worker working on a home
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome
You might own guns and you might even own tanks
You might be somebody's landlord you might even own banks.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side
You may be working in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair
You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed.

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may call me Terry, you may call me Jimmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything but no matter what you say.

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

--------so no one gets upset in vis copyright, this is by Bobby Dylan. I reserve the right to use my erstwhile brides name and similarities between the fictional Isis and the real Isis were (probably) intentional, but I have long since waived any claim to such.


Peace n' Love to all,
Marty and KitKat Kandybars, Luck, Popp and Sizzz

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Paul Joseph
Posted 9/11/2008 6:49 AM (#10131 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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}Nearly started a new thread 'On Silence', then remembered this [first posted this over on 'a rumination of silence' thread ] one ... although this could also go onto the 'Why Pray' thread .. thoughts of silence evoked a memory of how once I was with a retreat group and we were about to enter a tiny church; but as we all reached the porch, we kind of looked at each other, in silence, and communicated that there was sudden shift of energy, as if the air had become palbable and difficult to move through. We entered into the church, where the air pressure felt even stronger, and we saw that other members of our group who had arrived there earlier were sitting in silent meditation{

Just for fun i thought I would double post over here onto this great thread too ...

"Prayer wears thin the veil between time and eternity "

(cannot remember who said that, but i feel its a great quote - we felt eternity in that church at that moment ... silent, contemplative prayer seemed to have opened the door for eternity to manifest, make itself known)

Edited by Paul Joseph 9/11/2008 6:50 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/19/2009 5:11 PM (#13257 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Aquarius' recent post on prayer reminded me of this thread (which I had checked out earlier today in case I had posted that other prayer on it, but hadn't ... !) ... just flagging it up in case others had not come across it before
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Aquarius
Posted 1/22/2009 2:18 PM (#13326 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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MORE REFLECTIONS ON PRAYER
During prayer, our interior life springs into action and our
Whole being gives its undivided attention to God.
Not to pray is a sign that we are still unaware that God is alive in us,
In all those who are accompanying us on our pathway through life,
As well as in all lifeforms that share our world with us.
When that is the case, we are still
Out of touch with the most profound levels of our being.
Far from representing an element that alienates us from real life,
Prayer reconnects us with it.
In this way, with the help of God, we once again make contact
With the Divine part of ourselves and that of all life.

J.M. Cagodevilla
Edited by Aquarius

From ‘Words & Prayers for Comfort & Healing’

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/22/2009 3:00 PM (#13327 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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So, YES

we pray, because, what else is there to do, here ?

we pray because God needs us to, in order to be wholly God, in us

we pray, for joy

we pray, to live

we pray, to be conscious, because we live, eat, sleep, dream, unconsciously

we pray because life is joyously abundant, but we forget

we pray, because we can choose to love, or hate, live, or die,

we pray to remember, lest we forget

.... I think, feel so, anyway x

We pray to be blessed, and to bless others

we pray to be, and to be, with and for others, and ourselves

we pray for God

we pray for each other

I in Thou

Thee in Me

We in the Divine
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Supernatural3
Posted 1/22/2009 9:45 PM (#13348 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I pray, just "incase" I am wrong. LOL
I pray, to give energy towards something good or better.
I pray, in thanks, just incase I forgot to show my gratitude.
I pray, because I still feel so HUMAN!

I pray, because others are not as lucky as I am.
I pray, because I don't want to end up just like the others.

I pray, because I can!

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Danjummai
Posted 1/23/2009 10:27 AM (#13353 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A mixture of things is said here!

My take; Two forms of Prayer:

 'Lip Service'; 'Moving (Matrix) Stones.'

Bless You All!

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Danjummai
Posted 1/23/2009 10:28 AM (#13354 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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A mixture of things is said here!

My take; Two forms of Prayer:

'Lip Service'; 'Moving (Matrix) Stones.'

Bless You All!

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Aquarius
Posted 1/25/2009 2:27 PM (#13388 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Dear Danjummai - true prayer must come from the heart or rather it must express the murmurings of our hearts. Peace be with you and all of us. 

With love - Aquarius

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 7:48 AM (#13427 - in reply to #13388)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Quite so Lyona - did you see the story i told earlier on about walking into a room where people were praying ?
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 8:00 AM (#13431 - in reply to #13427)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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The story appears earlier on this page, above ...

We perhaps also pray to know the mind of God ...

... and keep quiet to hear the Sacred Sound

........keeping still to feel the Holy Touch .........
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Danjummai
Posted 1/28/2009 8:42 AM (#13435 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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I agree with you lyonna, and all that's said here.

Blessings!

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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/28/2009 1:14 PM (#13438 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Praying with you as well, Danjummai

.... and I am now reminded of that old 'popular' song -

"To know, know know you,

is to love, love, love you" !

How true too of the Divine
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sunflower
Posted 1/29/2009 4:25 AM (#13449 - in reply to #13353)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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any form of prayer is a link to the divine,if it sincere and from the heart,it will be heard,if it is unsinsere and for greed,it will still be heard,the divine will heal those in need,and show others the way,irisx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 4:43 AM (#13450 - in reply to #13449)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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There is a very interesting quotation from Claudius, in Hamlet, on exactly this point:

"My words fly up, my thoughts remain below
Words without thoughts never to heaven go".

Claudius is trying to pray for forgiveness for murdering his brother (Hamlet's father), but finds this difficult as he still is enjoying the benefits he has reaped as a consequence of his secret crime - his brother's throne, his brother's wife, etc (Hamlet Act 3, scene III)

http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?Work...
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 4:50 AM (#13454 - in reply to #13449)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Interesting point there, Lyonna, and a good reminder of why we must maintain focus on the Good.

Hello to you by the way, and hope you are well today x
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 5:01 AM (#13459 - in reply to #13454)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Ha ha ! As you may see, so do I ... to my understanding, repetition in prayer is meant to occupy the conscious mind to permit the spiritual unconscious to emerge and unit with the Divine; long intercessionary prayer can be a way of linking with each other rather than the Divine; I also have experience of the latter being open to a form of spiritual exploitation or bullying.

I much prefer prayers that are short and sweet !

Nice to commune with you
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/29/2009 5:14 AM (#13465 - in reply to #13459)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Perhaps it already has (Hell, broken loose), as a consequence of our inattentions
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sunflower
Posted 1/31/2009 9:18 AM (#13511 - in reply to #13450)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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without thought,there would never be words,a prayer to covet someones wife,or toaquire wealth,is a thought,not a prayer,God will know the difference,and act according to his will,as for the rock,intuition will never fail the faithful heartx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 1/31/2009 9:23 AM (#13513 - in reply to #13511)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Hello Sunflower - if you are referring back to the Claudius quote, just to clarify my point, Claudius was praying for forgiveness; he was, however, also conscious of his guilt, and living and accepting the fruits of his crime. That was the 'tragic paradox' that his prayer-realization was drawing attention to.
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sunflower
Posted 1/31/2009 9:37 AM (#13515 - in reply to #13513)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?


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no clarification needed,but thankyou paul for your teachings,irisx
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Paul Joseph
Posted 2/2/2009 4:16 AM (#13540 - in reply to #13515)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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sorry if I came over as 'teaching'/patronising
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Aquarius
Posted 2/2/2009 11:06 AM (#13550 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Your comments didn't come across to me as preaching, Paul; they were very interesting, the way they usually are.

Know that love is eternal;
And remember that love conquers all – even death.
When the Angel of Death carries one of your loved ones
Into your other world, nothing needs to change between the two of you.
That which you have been to each other in this lifetime,
You can continue to be, if you so wish.
But know that this is for better or for worse;
Therefore, let it be for better, My child.
None of your relationships finish when death calls.
Strive to resolve your difficult ones, for they too continue.

Whatever you leave behind unfinished in this lifetime
Has to be completed in another;
Where you have sinned, you will have to make good,
And any wounds you have given or received must
Be healed by you, in future ones.
Until all the Karmic chains and shackles you have created
Between you and any other soul have been dissolved
By forgiveness and love for each other,
You will not be allowed to move onto higher levels of experience.
 
But no matter how difficult anything you have to face may be,
I will always be there to guide and help you.
So, go in peace, My child, and rest securely in the knowledge
That you and your loved ones always have been
And forever will be safe with Me.
You are eternal beings and your learning will always continue.
Send them as many loving thoughts as you like,
But then let them go and give them the freedom to attend to
The lessons that are now waiting for them, as you must attend to yours.
To help you grow in understanding,
New experiences are waiting for both of you.

From ‘I Asked God’



Edited by Aquarius 2/2/2009 11:06 AM
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mruppert
Posted 2/2/2009 10:35 PM (#13557 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Darn it AckWah....I can never read your text.....'cause it translates so big with the font that you use!!!!!!
Ist furchtbar schwierig....es macht nichts....habe keine ahnung...
Ja ja.....don't laugh....it is obvious that I am way beyond remembering tense for verbs and even recalling basic vocabulary, I haven't spoken a word of Deutsch since I was a little kid and then not so much.....the language of the old folks in da'Hood was Yid.
     What amazes me is that in Sammys Roumanian Style Restaurant (in NYC...Manhattan, right across the Brooklyn Bridge) the people can speak Yiddish, German, and Hebrew; but they....nary a one....can speak Romanian, the language of the Holy Roman Empire. The language of France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and of it's derivative, ancient latin vulgaris.
      But I love when I am able to play for a captive audience, the film of the reading of Beowulf, by Bagby....as he does it in the way that it was most likely done; and speaks English..yet, we cannot understand a word except for one or two.
       If we are so dense as to not understand our own language, though it might have been a bit ancient to us.....how can we ever hope to understand other languages of the past, present or future.
       How can we hope to communicate with aliens, since all of our thoughts are earthbound....and all of our ethereal thoughts are heavenly tied to earthbound considerations. How can we speak to things that are not like us....since we can barely speak to oursleves?

P&L,
Marty and Wunderkatzen, Luckylee, Poppyhead, und SissyGirl
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Paul Joseph
Posted 2/3/2009 5:00 AM (#13574 - in reply to #13550)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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Thanks as always and ever Aquarius
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Paul Joseph
Posted 2/3/2009 8:04 AM (#13589 - in reply to #13574)
Subject: RE: Why Pray?



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The old Sufi teaching story of the blind men and the elephant comes to mind
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Ophiucus
Posted 5/5/2016 11:11 AM (#27517 - in reply to #8116)
Subject: Re: Why Pray?



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And some former reflections on Prayer, echoing Aquarius' posting today (I thought I recognised J.M. Cagodevilla, please see page 2 for a partial rendering of the longer version posted today)
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