Posted 5/11/2006 10:25 AM (#401 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Hirosaki, Japan
organizations that choose to be so secretive are always hiding something very dark about themselves.
you dont see benevolent organizations hiding from society.
Posted 5/11/2006 6:17 PM (#405 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
How do you know that secretive organizations are "always" hiding something about themselves? I guess it wouldn't surprise me, I'm just curious. Of course, you also have organizations that are secretive about certain aspects but not about themselves entirely (i.e., the Catholic Church, Church of Scientology, etc.)
Posted 5/28/2006 6:11 PM (#448 - in reply to #401) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Northern Utah, USA
NothingEverything - 2006-05-13 8:25 AM organizations that choose to be so secretive are always hiding something very dark about themselves. you dont see benevolent organizations hiding from society.
The Mason's are a "secret society" and they do tons of charitable works, including the "Shriner's Hospitals" etc. I know quite a few Mason's and everyone I personally know is a highly ethical, top notched person. So, I beg to differ with your broad, vauge blanket statement... JMHO
Posted 5/29/2006 12:35 AM (#449 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
for me it lead to light i think its good. but who am i .
Posted 5/29/2006 12:37 AM (#450 - in reply to #401) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Posted 6/2/2006 11:26 PM (#462 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
It is strange to find that the Rosicrucians teach a lot of what we would, should and could learn here. The Martinists do so with just a bit more delving into "magic" in combination with religion. For example, a text from a Martinist reading list..."The History and Practice of Magic" by Paul Christian. Yet, the Martinists require a belief in "Christ" , in some form or another.
What I am not sure of is the relationship between the various Rosicrucian groups, the few Martinists groups and the broadly defined "Masons." Then, of course, there is the "Scottish Rite" which draws its history from the Knights Templar.
There is much nonsensical attribution given to these various groups due to the dreaded "The da Vinci Code" which, as a work of fiction, has its charm and power in its comingling with historical fact. The Illuminati???? Opus Dei???????
As a, by birth, Roman Catholic ( the vampyric, cannibalistic religion, after all, we eat the body of Christ and drink his blood, AND we have the only formal Rite of Exorcism ) I am fascinated by the renewed interest in the Masons. In studying that, I saw vague relationships between the Masons and Rosicrucians, and, in turn, the Martinists.
So, I wanted to find out as much as I could about each....pretty amazing! There is a vague, but common thread in belief between all the groups (but my knowledge of the Masons is very limited).
As far as Opus Dei goes, they have always been an embarrassment to the RC Church, but are allowed to pursue their folly.
I came to this site, and this school, searching for that which synthesizes the most fundamental beliefs with those of a more particular venue. As I read posts on various topics, I see that my inate, gut feeling is probably correct! And that is, there is a lot more validity to so called pseudoscience, such as astrology, numerology, vibrancy, etc. than meets the modern scientific eye. There is more to healing than modern medicine gives credit. There is a more mystical world than the jaded, technological eye can see!
This is why I ask for your experiences, and why I appreciate them.
Posted 7/24/2006 10:16 AM (#736 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Untimely intervention, when we need to learn about our secrets!
Posted 7/28/2006 2:18 PM (#750 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Hi, I am actually a Rosicrucian, just started to study a few months ago. I can tell you what the secretive part is - it's because some folks aren't ready for the teachings. They seem to be of higher levels of Spiritual teaching and not everyone is ready for it. So as a Rosicruican, you can talk about generalities but if someone is interested in specific teachings, they have to explore it for themselves.
I am very much someone of the light and I have not run into anything in the Rosicruican teachings that is dark. I will say some of the information is advanced and may not be sutible for everyone.
I'm enjoying the teachings too - lots of really good info. And honestly, some of it is stuff I've already read some places. So if you're ready, you'll be lead to it.
Thanks and let me know if you have more questions,
Posted 7/29/2006 5:07 AM (#752 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Yeah, Mary, tell us here! Are we not here to learn? What's it like? Is it a religion or the like of Metaphysics which could probably be said to have no 'impending commandments' to follow or new 'tricks' to learn?
Posted 8/25/2006 11:15 PM (#824 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Sorry Folks, but I was involved in a Quantum Healing thing and could not come back to this subject for a while.
Let me be more to the point. Since what is taught at UMS is allied with what the Rosicrucians practice and do, which is the more effective method?
Afterall, there is a difference between learning and doing...maybe????
Posted 9/15/2006 2:33 AM (#889 - in reply to #824) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Experience
Joining any group may be useful for the one who is directly led from within, thus, the best Path for such, is to ask one's own Mighty I AM Presence -- the God Self above one -- to direct him or her to the Perfect Path & Pure Truth first and foremost. Then know and be firm in that Decree that you are answered. Receive It! Regardless of the outer channel, the Ideal is Within. In other words, the Greatest Wisdom & Teaching says "...within you and the Light about you is everything you can possibly desire."
The Rosicrucian Teaching, that is of use today, is linked to Francis Bacon. The son of Queen Elizabeth and Lord Dudley, he wrote the Shakespeare Plays and had other pen names that would be familiar to you. He achieved the goal of life in that embodiment and is with us today as a "Holy Brother." This leads to another incredible Truth which is explained in a set of Discourses that would leave one amazed and almost dumbfounded. It has to do with the Elemental Beings. So there was a good reason for secrecy and silence -- and the Words of the Masters have clearly stated: "To Know, To Dare, To Do, To Be Silent."
There are today also Teachings available that most Rosicrucians would not be familiar with -- because it is no longer necessary to be in an organization to receive the Highest Truths. This means that our "Holy Brother" has given us Teachings that now transcend all Rosicrucian lore. One Secret that perhaps you all will be familiarized with now, is that to become a superwoman or superman, it is necessary to conserve the Liquid Light in the form and this means that all one's Energy is allowed to come from the top of the head down through to the Heart, and then back up. Thus, the only chakra or energy center to focus on would be the three highest: the Heart, Pituitary and Pineal Glands. Individuals who marry and desire to have children may allow that energy to descend below the heart for procreation. For others, the idea of marriage would not be desired. And rightly, one has had many embodiments being with a husband or wife, having children and families.... There is nothing new to this Teaching and it was the same Beloved Jesus taught.
If you want to penetrate the Holy of Holies, all Energy would be directed up to the Presence, and the desire for human companionship would become transcended as well as transformed. This will lead to a Magical, Miracle Life; and like a magnet, draw the Perfect Resources to yourself, including the Discourses mentioned and the Highest Teachings available.
Posted 1/6/2007 10:55 PM (#1326 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
I find the rosicrucian movement intesesting, and have had some expierence contacting them. I find them interesting partialy because I belive my grandfather to have been a rosicrucian and have an interest in alchemy. It might be important to note that there are more than one group that consider themselves rosicrucian, and the teachings and goals of these groups may be quite different from eachother. That being said it is difficult to give there exact attributes. I know of at least three groups who call themselves rosicrucians today and there may be more. . .
finding one set of attributes may be difficult.
Edited by cause 1/6/2007 10:57 PM
Posted 1/10/2007 7:04 PM (#1341 - in reply to #1326) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
I appreciate the way Spirituality Girl stood up for her beliefs here, although I couldn't tell you what they are. Just a little bit about your experiences with this school of thought would go a long way to educating us as to how their teachngs are "allied" with what's taught at UMS...
Posted 3/31/2008 11:43 AM (#4155 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: No I'm not impersonating a cat! I'm a laughing Owl
Regardless of our roads I believe we are each responsible for helping others on their paths to enlightenment and ending suffering. Imagine what a beautiful place this would be if every single person made it their personal responsibility to end suffering around them. We probably would have no need for a legal system. No need for government, we would govern ourselves. And those with resources and those who could tap into natural resources would make sure that people were getting what they needed. And when we didn't have enough resources to go around there would be plenty of understanding and patience to make up for whatever shortages we may experience as a whole.
Posted 3/31/2008 8:48 PM (#4160 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience-MODIFIED THREAD
Hi all: Rose's response sends us off on another thread.....and maybe Rose will start a new one! Basically I understand Rose to say ultimately, humankind has an innate altruitstic nature. That, with but a higher level of awareness, consciousness, spirituality, etc. there would be no need for governing of a formal nature; that governing would be in and of a collective self. Well Rose, I deeply respect your idealism, and moreso because I am also a utopian dreamer. However, the preponderance of historical evidence, and the weight of philosophical thought indicates that humankind is not altruistic at all. Altruism is introduced into a society of humans by an authoritative body. I would love to have comments on this topic!
Peace and Good Will, Marty and the regular cast of cats
Posted 3/31/2008 11:07 PM (#4170 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Ya got me Ruppert! Thanks for the opportunity!
I have optimism and hope that we as a species are indeed growing in consciousness and in compassion. Of course, we can look back in history and see really horrible bloodbaths, and our barbaric ways of meting out 'justice" to our neighbors. We can look right now at over 4000 Americans killled and over one million Iraqis dead, and not even grasp the enormity of suffering and grief. Yet, it still feels to me that most human beings all over the world are just plain folks with families and friends who have no interest in conflict and strife and bloodshed.
Consider the advances in compassionate thinking that have emerged in this age of communication. Women's rights, children's rights. Politically correct speech! Non-violent communication, mediation, restitution, self-help groups, people who bring and teach healing, people teaching about environmental responsibility - organic farming, sustainability, cooperative farming, animal rescue, empowerment groups. Poverty programs, food programs, Doctors without Borders, Oxfam, technology sharing. These show that Love is at work among humans.
The Good has not been defeated, it is all around!
So many religions point to a time where human beings will live in peace with one another. Most await the coming of a King, a god-man with great wisdom, a Healer who will unite the nations. Some call this Christ consciousness. Others call it the end of an age, the Aquarian age, the beginning of a new reality. But it is not enough to have a hope, we are asked to BE this hope now. Awakening is a tremendous part of the change we want to see, and it is us! I am blessed every day to read the reports of students who are healing, who are becoming channels of healing.
Looking at the past and saying "I cannot do it, look how I have failed, I can't change" is the same to me as looking at the media and the few in power in the present and the past that can manipulate whole populations of people to obey them, and believing there is no hope for change for humanity. I just don't believe that is true, too many just plain folks living here. We are living in a time when the media feeds us the news of suffering constantly, but we don't hear much good news. I have been thinking about the impact of the media on these latter generations lately and we sure get our negativity, fear, and judgmentalism reinforced! Check out Eckhart Tolles book "A New Awakening" for his description of the 'pain body' in human society.
I think that if you have utopian dreams, they need to be shared. If you have good ideas for education, agriculture, the economy, let people know. There are many beautiful minds thinking and sharing these things and putting them into practice! If all you have is the faith and hope that something really good is happening, share that, please! It seems to me that I am becoming more aware of people who are spreading these good vibrations all over the world. I guess I will keep trusting that God/Goddess/Creative Intelligence/Higher Self is waking up in us. If not, I know that it is happening in me, and the people around me, and we will have to figure out how to learn and be and remain loving and grateful in the face of so much hatred and destruction. Which is what we have been doing all along, yes?
Forgiveness is a powerful medicine, and self-forgiveness is an elixir of bliss.
Posted 4/18/2008 11:45 PM (#4452 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
I'm a card-carrying Rosicrucian and have studied mystical societies for a lot of years. The secrecy involved with these organizations is, I believe, antiquated. There was a real reason for Templars, Masons, Rosicrucians, and Golden Dawn members to keep their activities private - persecution (sometimes by the Church, sometimes by each other, sometimes by the state). Especially during the alchemy years, many mystics used symbols and parables to communicate with one another so the Church wouldn't catch on. Especially after the destruction of the Templars in the 14th century, the masons had to be completely covert to survive and there are theories that many established the U.S. as a way to live independent of the Church's pressure.
In any case, most mystical groups cite "scaffolding" as the purpose of their secrecy. In other words, you have to learn A before you can understand B... just like someone wouldn't learn Physics before learning Algebra. That, I guess, could be true(ish), but in this information age there is no reason to keep the ritual and teachings proprietary. I'm a proponent of free information (my ezine is free and I released much of the copyright to the public domain). I think the organizations mostly do this to feed the monkey and not to cover up dark secrets or weed out the unworthy.
Rosicrucians have a rich history in magic, philosophy and ritual. They have Christian roots, but have become much more pragmatic (Masons still hold onto Christian mysticism). The things they teach are no different than what you learn in other mystical communities (divination, ritualistic magic, metaphysics, etc), but they still think what they do is unique and unknown. Frankly, it isn't.
All that said, I love the community, I love their efforts and I love their tradition. I just think they should convert from being old men wearing aprons and exchanging private handshakes, to philanthropic people openly helping the world with their philosophy.
Posted 4/19/2008 5:06 AM (#4456 - in reply to #401) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
i aggree with you,NothingEverything,organizations that choose to be secretive,are hiding something,and i also beleive there is a lot of darkness in these secret organisations.Like the Masons,they may on the surface seem to be dooing a lot of good work,but i have heard many evil,dark happenings within the organisation,that cancels any good they may do,what i have heard is fact,by the way,not just hearing of it,a relative of mine was involved,and did not like what was unearthed.All this secret handshake,how they choose thir members,how they diconnect themselves from the est of society,by secrecy,makes them beleive they are on a higher plain than the mere mortal.There should be no secret societies,if a group have knowledge beneficicial to society as awhole,they should share,they are not the chosen ones,as these people seem to beleive when they join such organisations,no one on this earthplane is the chosen one,we are all as one,many evil deeds are being practised in secret organizations,they are under a false cover screen.
Posted 4/19/2008 12:57 PM (#4470 - in reply to #4456) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
sunflower - 2008-04-19 5:06 AMi aggree with you,NothingEverything,organizations that choose to be secretive,are hiding something,and i also beleive there is a lot of darkness in these secret organisations.Like the Masons,they may on the surface seem to be dooing a lot of good work,but i have heard many evil,dark happenings within the organisation,that cancels any good they may do,what i have heard is fact,by the way,not just hearing of it,a relative of mine was involved,and did not like what was unearthed.All this secret handshake,how they choose thir members,how they diconnect themselves from the est of society,by secrecy,makes them beleive they are on a higher plain than the mere mortal.There should be no secret societies,if a group have knowledge beneficicial to society as awhole,they should share,they are not the chosen ones,as these people seem to beleive when they join such organisations,no one on this earthplane is the chosen one,we are all as one,many evil deeds are being practised in secret organizations,they are under a false cover screen.
I'd respectfully submit that the belief that one's organization is in a higher plane of understanding is not necessarily evil. Many religions assert the same exact thing. The secrecy is built out of tradition, and while I agree it is silly, I really don't think it is evil.
There is a lot out there about the conspiracies of these groups and firstly, these theorists give the groups waaay too much credit (they really don't have -that- much influence . . . no more than say a political party or corporation). Secondly, much of what is "revealed" is just plain false.
Like it or not, the United States was founded by masons on masonic ideals. It is because of that we have radical ideas like democracy and capitalism. There is a rich masonic history in this country and while archaic tradition may keep them in basements exchanging handshakes, their modus operandi has always been around the social, political and spiritual philosophy that makes Western Civilization what it is.
I used to be a conspiracy theorist until I spent a dozen years researching these groups (and others). Their history should be embraced - it makes us who we are. That said, they really ought to modernize their techniques and processes. And a little bit of transparency never hurt anyone (but I could say the same thing for most corporations and religious institutions).
Posted 4/20/2008 12:11 AM (#4490 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Portland, Oregon
If you were to take the truth of metaphysics into the deep south, where the bible is literally true, and then give them the secrets of existence. How do you think they would react? Humans in general are unable to deal with the truth of reality and have always been. While it may be true that we're awakening faster then ever, it doesn't mean anything if the people awakening are not capable of dealing with reality. This is why these orginizations have secrets. Because Not everyone can know all the details without going mad or attempting to destroy the world. Trust in the higher powers and again... there is no such thing as evil. Stop thinking in limited 3 dimensional ways. Remember, Reincarnation, Remember, there IS a master plan, REMEMBER, THE SOUL CAN NOT BE TAINTED OR DESTROYED
Posted 4/20/2008 12:14 AM (#4491 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Portland, Oregon
btw, my grandfather was a 32nd degree freemason, as was my Great Uncle Major General Claire Lee Chennault who saved China from Japan during WW2. The emporer of Japan said that if it were not for the Flying Tigers that China would be a province of Japan.
Posted 4/25/2008 11:09 AM (#4668 - in reply to #361) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Northern CA
Tracy, thank you for sharing what you have.
This may be off the original post, or it may be the point of...
We are the one's we've been waiting for.
Tolle talks about our awakening consciousness.
The video I posted (quite amazing video) talks about awakening cosciousness
Rather than a philosophy, awakened state is the I am we only need to see.
Posted 4/27/2008 6:13 PM (#4763 - in reply to #4491) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: Saddlebrook,New Jersey
my great grandfather was killed at the battle of the littlehorn.he wasn't fighting but was on a freemasons camping trip in the next field and went over to complain about the noise,so yes secret societies can be dangerous??????? ????????
Posted 4/28/2008 6:36 AM (#4790 - in reply to #4763) Subject: RE: Rosicrucian Martinist Experience
Location: United Kingdom
I had kept off this thread as I know very little about Rosicrucians or Martinists (I read first, 'Martians'!); but Chotuni's post made me smile - I hope that was your intention, Chotuni, but if not, please forgive my insensitvity and accept my condolences.
But there is a humour to be found in the playful aspect of the Divine.
Back to the subject - as a Shakespeare fan I would be interested to hear the evidence against his authorship (he too may have been an enlightened soul, indeed I feel he was).
As for secret societies; another thread was talking a little about this. The NT indicates that Jesus may have had 'secret' teachings; in the past i think there was the idea that truth needed protecting - this is found in other traditions - but my understanding is that the world is in such a parlous state that 'it' - the world - and us, even - through us - needs as much help as it can get. And the more truth out there the better.
Rene Guenon in 1946 wrote a book called, 'The Signs of the Times', where he talked about time speeding up, or appearing to, and the outpouring of all potential, every which way, as the turning of the Age approached.