Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.
kukla2555
Posted 5/30/2008 5:34 PM (#6205)
Subject: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Hello to all!

As usual, I need your help, please!

I am 32 years old and I have been going to UMS for almost a year now and I love it. I have noticed that in the last 6 months my personality has changed dramatically and I am a much happier and spiritual person. I have learned many things studying spirituality including how to forgive the most unforgivable acts. However, I still struggle with it.

Here is my dilema or issue:

My father is emotionally and verbally abusive

I got into a fight with my father. Fights with my dad are not normal fights.. they are brutal and cruel. He yelled at me to vaccuum (never asks) always yells because he assumes I should always know what he's thinking and do it before he tells me to.

What he said pretty much comes down to him thinking and feeling I am Incompetant to do anything and then, the vaccuum broke and well there just proves my incompenants right? To him it did. He then screams about how he was never this inconsiderate to his parents.. ok so now i'm inconsiderate because I can't read his mind and didn't vaccuum before he told me to.. you following?

I obviously, live at home. I moved back a few years ago, kinda in a last minute panic. My father had begged me to move back home several times because he was sick.. cough cough.. (sick in the head and amazingly recovered after I moved back).

I refused until my roommate informed me the day of Christmas our lease was up in a week and SHE was moving to Europe. I should add that my wonderful father is also extremely self centered, stubborn and has a dictionary/thesauras/encyclopia of his own in his head. You cannot go against what is in his head or you are WRONG!!!!!

He is very wealthy so he 'gets away' with his bad behavior by almost everyone because most people fear him. When I was younger I over heard him tell his friends that fear is good to set into your children so they don't misbehave... My sister and I were extremely well behaved children. Never drank or did drugs, stayed out passed curfew.. etc. Model children to most parents except my father! WE can never do anything right. I should also tell you that my mother died when I was 15 and my sister was 19.

Obviously, things got much worse after she passed away and I blame my father for her death. And he had a girlfriend at our house that Friday night after mom died. Mom died on her 6th heart attack. My sister was diagnosed with this condition days ago and we are both currently in a huge fight with my dad. He says and does unforgivable things and 3 years ago had me arrested for tresspassing in the only house I have ever lived in my whole life. Soley because he needed to have control over me and couldn't control me, I of course moved out and stayed gone for a year and a half.

While I was gone, I discovered a mantra that I repeated until it made me cry. "I forgive you for not being who I would want you to be, I forgive you and set you free." That's How I forgave him and was able to move back. Living back home for the first year was fine.. No problems, but he's back to his old ways and I just hide or try to stay away from him.

He's very mean and abusive with his words and he treats his girlfriend and us two daughters the same way. He recently hurt his foot and is now on crutches.. he's such a baby that he bought himself a wheelchair.. simply because he feels he'll get more pity that way.. He's constantly looking for pity and attention. His mother was the same way and he'll be the first one to tell you he couldn't stand her either. Unfortunately the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I don't fall for his childish games and since we really aren't on speaking terms, I'm purposely not home and he's pissed because he thinks I should be at home waiting on him hand and foot and most of all making him "tea."

My sister and I are to the point of cutting off all ties with him, but financially I have no way of leaving home any time soon. I meditate on it to no avail.. so now I meditate on asking how to meditate effectively to get the response or action to be taken for it to really happen. My sister is obviously very sick now but she doesn't want to keep her son from his Papa. My father at this point is ignoring both of us in the hopes that we'll need him or something from him and we'll call him then.. Unfortunately, I secretly hope for an unlimited supply of his ignoring me and so does my sister.

How do you forgive again the same man for doing the same thing to us over and over again and never apologizing or caring about what we are going thru. He's only been concerned with him and his heart.

I could give you a list of things that he's done that have hurt me but I don't want to relive the pain.. I'll give you one example.. i told you that he is a very wealthy man... and for the last two years I have been asking on every holiday for new tires and for my shower head to be put in my shower... My tires would go flat every 2 weeks without exeggeration and he FOUND 4 used tires and made me put them on. A month ago I had a complete NO FIXING IT flat tire to find that my RIM had THREE cracks! I told my father there was something wrong with my rim/tires but he just said it's fine its fine... never bothered with it.. To me that is a safety issue and he could have cared less.. There's more.. that's just one example

I pray for salvation, I pray and meditate for an "emotionally stable" place for me to live, but i'm still here. I pray and meditate for money and little trinkletts sometimes come.. now If I ask for love I'll get bombarded with men!

Please tell me the Spiritual way of forgiving or dealing with this man. A good friend of the family says I have to talk to him and go up to him, be the adult in other words. He's obviously the child and always has been.

I know if I go home and leave the communication door open for him he will lash out on me and I physically and mentally cannot handle it, so i OVER self medicate to fall asleep to avoid feeling anything.. I know it's wrong/bad.. etc. but if you knew you had to walk into a mind field everyday knowing(feeling like) your gonna die( or want to), with no way to avoid it... how would you go about it?

What is the spiritual method of dealing with this man?

I desperately need help. I'm in financial ruins I don't have a clue on how to get out of this mess. My friends and family say that he is keeping my sister and I both from moving forward. That he's holding us back.. my sister doesn't live at home but she still feels trapped. And I obviosly, hold a ton of resentment that I'm not sure how to let go of while still living there.

Please help. I'm desperate.

Thank you for reading

Love and light

Judy

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Louise
Posted 5/30/2008 5:57 PM (#6207 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hey Judy, I'm here, I hear you, I'm with you.

Take a deep breath now - actually take it - take it in, feel your chest raise, and breath out long and deep, let it go, let it all go. Let it go as the drama that you can see that it is. The drama cannot hurt you. You cannot be abandoned, you have not been abandoned. As soon as you remind yourself, that which you know to be true, you will choose to see fear as something that is an illusion which will keep you from who you really are...Yet - we cannot know what something is, until we know what it is not - and therefore as you seek spiritual enlightenment, the univese will create a context for you to see what it is not - and this is our human condition. So your situation may feel like it has you captive, yet it has the power to see you free

I'm reviewing a modernised version of the Bible - this is the page open right now which is quite fitting:

You, Lord, are my shepherd. I will never be in need
You let me rest in fields of green grass
You lead me to streams of peaceful water
and you refresh my life

You are true to my name
and you lead me along the right paths
I may walk through valleys as dark as death
but I won't be afraid
You are with me
and your shepherd's rod makes me feel safe

You treat me to a feast while my enemies watch
you honour me as your guest
and you fill my cup until it overflows
Your kindness and love will always be with me
each day of my life
and I will live forever in your house, Lord

I'm not sure that answered your question but it felt right to say.
Much Love to you Judy,
Louise
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instinctual
Posted 5/30/2008 7:42 PM (#6210 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Greetings Judy-

I have forwarded you a private message. Blessings and Love to you...

Lori
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kukla2555
Posted 5/31/2008 2:13 PM (#6236 - in reply to #6207)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Thank you. I don't know if it answers my question but it helps me on how I should view my situation at least in a different light.

Thanks again.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/31/2008 4:49 PM (#6237 - in reply to #6236)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Dear K

I have logged on tonight, with the intention of only opening and responding to, one message. And yours was the one that, by chance, I opened. Just a concern first, are you fully aware that this is an open site? Does the one with whom you are concerned have access to the internet, or do others close to you? Next, have you yet taken the UMS course, Radical Forgiveness ? There, in the light of that teaching, nothing has happened. Moving down a line, as a shift into differnet consciousness ...

You are only here for You. Whatever might happen as a by-product of You being here is grace; but it is a bonus. Your responsibility .. response-ability, to You, and Your Eternal Self, your gift to You, is your happiness. Your love. Others equally, are in that same position, vis a vis themselves. Just take a moment to reflect on that last sentence.

Then, let go, allow yourself to love yourself, and in that, open the gates for others to find themselves also.

Love, blessings, and in every cognizance of how hard this must be for you,

Paul
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/1/2008 8:27 PM (#6269 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hello Judy,

I am so sorry that you have to deal with this. But, you do not really have to. You can make up your mind that you do not, and get out of there. You do not deserve this. However, you can also express how you feel. Tell him you are going to move out again, then explain why. Abuse is not a good thing either, and mental abuse as well as emotional abuse is very wrong. Explain that you do not have to take it, and simply leave.

Paul also brings up a VERY valid reminder: most people who are very mean and hurtful, are hurting inside. They show to others how they truly feel inside. How bitter and hurt your father must feel to be so hurtful to others. Forgive him and know, it's NOT you that he is talking about, it's himself! You can also walk away when he is yelling at you. Explain to him that if he cannot treat you as an equal, As Jean Piaget came up with TWO stages of moral development. One where the kid feels unequal to their parents, and then one where the child feels equal. At age 32, you should be in the stage two of this development, making you an equal. If he cannot respect that you 'are' now an equal, then you can leave him to deal with his own misery with out your presence. But you do not have to take this at all. It's a choice you make.

Now, if you choose to leave, you do not have the financial support, which is a big deal, especially now, when everyone seems to be down in income. We are very close to a second depression. Nobody would put you down for staying, but can you deal with that?

We cannot give you the answer here, just share information and give opinions. I hope that some opinions do help you very much!

I send you HUGS and healing energy to find forgiveness, and strength to hold your head up, as an equal.

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mruppert
Posted 6/1/2008 10:33 PM (#6273 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hello Kukla.....is your sister named Fran????? (Awww....that is something only I would understand.)

I am many years removed, but so "with" you in many respects.
My Dad was not rich; he was purposely poor. But, the same in tone and temperament, and worse as he was physically violent. I have talked about him from time to time in other forums.
I left home to go to college, barely 17. I went home during a break, and seeing more of the same, said some fateful words.....To which my dad told me to leave and don't come back. And, I never did go back. You'd be surprised what a 17 year old kid can do, if he has to. College paid for by me! Work/Study and another job....an apartment off campus....the whole nine yards!
Talk to my Mom and sisters, and see them every now and then. I  talked to him once more, on the phone, when he was dying of cancer, and he started in again....so I hung up!
I have always hated him, never forgiven him, and wanted some sort of justice, i.e, revenge upon him.
BUT, I have had some recent "advice" from another on this website. And the message is quite clear. It has been many years and I have not been able to "let it go". It is high time that I do!
I only know what you relate here, but based on that, if I were you, I would grab Sis and go.....there must be somewhere safe. If not, you two go it alone....but without fear, as you are not gonna starve or die on the street. Your resourcefulness won't let that happen. You will, indeed, survive and have a better life.
The problem is you can't look back, ever....you will only torment yourself by doing so, as I have found.
Actually, you have helped me more than I have tried to help you, as I see now, that it was over and done with a long time ago.....I am just holding on to something which is meaningless and not worth the time; a certainly beneath the dignity of all involved.

I wish you the best,
Peace,
Marty and my catgirls batgirls, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and Sissy
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sunflower
Posted 6/2/2008 2:54 AM (#6276 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Dear Kukla,my heart goes out to you,and i know what it is like being in an abusive relationship,mental abuse,to me,is far more damaging than physical,as physical heals,mental,scars.You should not expand anymore of your precious energy thinking of ways to forgive this man,it is you that needs attention,and love,you have to love yourself,and treat youself with a loving kindness,hug yourself,if you know what i mean.He is ruling ,and controlling you by fear,and his own insecurities,i feel he was treated similarly when he was young,and never met his parents standards,but has not learned from this.He is passing it on to you and your sister,he may have a mental hold on you,but not a physical one.You can be free,by freeing yourself,leave,never go back,your success and happiness will be your reward,and his loss.His money means nothing,its immaterial,its all he has to feel power,as that is what he wants,don,t let it be,money does not bring happiness,it comes from within,your father is void of this,it is up to him,his responsibility to either change,or be the same,in total misery.His life,is not your life,don,t let him live through you,and your energies,which he is draining from you.You have only you to be responsible for,your happiness of mind,body spirit soul,and your own lifepath to follow.I personaly don,t feel you have to confront him,just yet anyway,cut the strings that bind you,and heal yourself,through love,inner peace,and ask the angels of healing and love to help you,you have your own guardian angel,with you always,you wil be guided,go forward,and listen to your thoughts and intuition.I surround you with a loving light,and a positiveity that when that first step is taken to free yourself,things will change for the good,and a path will be cleared for you.Take care my friend,you are in my thoughts,with love and kindness,big hugs,iris xxxxx
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Rose
Posted 6/2/2008 6:42 AM (#6278 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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I'm going to pray for you and your family.

Love and Peace to you. It will get better.

"This too will pass".
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Aquarius
Posted 6/2/2008 9:30 AM (#6281 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: Karma in Families



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KARMA IN FAMILIES

Life hardly ever is a bed of roses for any one of us and until we find at least a degree of understanding of its true purpose, this world frequently seems meaningless and cruel, dark and threatening. For unawakened souls the pain of life’s sorrows, limitations and hardships is accentuated by sneaking feelings that an impersonal and unloving providence permits and inflicts them, without purpose, rhyme or reason. As long as we are unaware of the Universal laws that rule all life, including ours on the earthly plane, our suffering is likely to be intense. A certain amount of relief comes straight away when one finds out about the Divine law of Karma and that because of this law a justice of a very special kind is at work in every life. Until human souls have found a measure of awareness of their own true nature and why they are in this earthly existence, the Divine justice is so perfect and fair that its extent is almost impossible to grasp.

How good it is that humankind is finally moving onto different levels of consciousness and that we are finding a fresh understanding of ever more spiritual concepts. When such knowledge stops being merely of the head and instead sinks into the deeper levels of one’s consciousness, one realises the necessity of applying one’s knowledge to real life situations. Surprisingly enough one then realises that it no longer takes superhuman efforts to find compassion and forgiveness for our own suffering, as well as that of anyone who ever hurt and wounded us in the past. Forgiveness is essential because its gets the healing process going and brings ever more peace to our soul. Knowing that everything that is in our life is and always was only there because it is intended to teach us something, helps us to let go of the notion that there is such a thing as good or bad fortune. Whether we like it or not, one way or another, we ourselves once set the wheels in motion for everything that our life now presents to us. Accepting this makes finding forgiveness surprisingly easy.

Family situations are particularly fraught and the saying: ‘You cannot choose your family, but you can choose your friends,’ is only true up to a point; more of this theme later. We are told by the wise ones from the world of spirit that there is more Karma in families than in any other aspect of life. Look at your own life and that of the families around you and you will – like me – have no difficulties accepting that this is undoubtedly so. The way I see it, far too much suffering is constantly created in our world through family life – mine is no exception.

To my mind this is due to the lack of understanding of the role we truly have to play towards each other, it seems to me a worthwhile exercise to examine this more closely.  The living together of people in the close proximity of families, no matter how splendid our surroundings may be, puts enormous strain on everybody’s inner resources. Invasions of each other’s psychic spaces are constantly taking place within all families. Grating on each other’s nerves is probably inevitable; even in the most loving relationships sooner or later this starts to show. Statistics of divorce figures and people living on their own these days prove the point.

The work that is required from everyone to improve this situation can only be done in our earthly existence. Once we have been released from its limitations and are back in the world of spirit, such strains no longer exist and therefore cannot be worked on. This realisation highlights the great importance of making every effort to resolve and heal our troublesome relationships in the here and now. Undoubtedly, the arising conflicts and tensions in them lead to much soul growth for all concerned.

 This clearly has been the intention behind this particular challenge in the past, but now that we are reaching spiritual maturity the tools are put into everybody’s own hands for learning to rise above such situations and for doing better. Alas, without discovering what is at stake here, nobody has much of a chance of making any progress. For as long as any warring parties remain unaware of what is expected from them, the people involved are likely to repeat the difficult behaviour patterns, which they brought with them as part of their soul memories from previous lifetimes. Thus they can do nothing to continue to endlessly create ever more difficult Karmic situations that will have to be redeemed and resolved, if not during their present lifetime then in one of their future ones.

As long as at least one participating soul wakes up, all involved remain trapped on the great wheel of life. Tied to it and each other, unwittingly creating ever more chains of Karma is the kind of yoke we have all carried with us, ever since we entered into our first relationship with someone. Setting each other free from this is sure to be done more successfully and rapidly when both parties in thorny relationships wake up from their spiritual slumbers. For all who are willing to work on this formidable task, their present lifetime will offer many opportunities for transforming their difficult connections into bonds of friendship and mutual respect.

Let us now return for a moment to the theme of choosing one’s family, briefly touched upon earlier. In case someone is now asking: ‘How can this be?’ a few words of explanation may not come amiss. Each time before we enter into yet another lifetime, working together with the wise ones in charge of us, we do indeed choose our family. This not only creates possibilities for balancing the scales of justice, but also for resolving any issues that were left unattended to in other lifetimes. Without the necessary awareness there is little chance of achieving this goal. The key to unlock this challenge, as always, is the understanding of what is now at stake, because we can then consciously get to work on all our problematic relationships. And when we do, there will finally come the moment when the people involved can set each other free. As everything in the whole of Creation always has to balance, we do not only bring our difficult relationships with us but also some good and helpful ones, which can be built upon and further strengthened.

The poet W.H. Auden, when asked why he was migrating from the United Kingdom to the United States, said: ‘I love my family, but I don’t want to live with them!’ Now, there is honesty for you and if we were all equally truthful with ourselves, many would express the same feelings. Not to jump to conclusions though, let us not assume that they are hypocrites. Maybe they are the wise ones, especially if they are consciously and patiently putting up with the lessons their difficult relationships can teach them. With sufficient awareness, ever more of us will be able to grasp the opportunities that are now on offer to help us resolve all our Karmic ties with each other.

Recommended Reading: ‘Healing Prayer for Children and Parents’ in the ‘Words & Prayers for Comfort & Healing’ section

From ‘The Random Jottings of a Stargazer’ Volume Two – Part A ‘Reflections on the Value of War and Peace.

With Love and Light,
Aquarius

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mruppert
Posted 6/2/2008 9:54 PM (#6295 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hi all:
     First, Kukla.....Sun-der-land and I agree on something....and that should tell YOU something! You have to leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     My lot was to be humiliated constantly and told I was ugly and stupid. The physical abuse was minor and nothing I couldn't handle. My sisters were treated a lot more gently. It was my dad's anger and violence towards me mum...I mean my mom (I talk to too many Brits all day long), that was the icing on the cake. He cut my Mom's arm with a knife as he was carving a pork roast....he didn't do it as a mortally inflicted wound, he did it out of anger and stupidity (with the intention of hitting her with the broad part of the blade) and no control over what he was doing. So, I walked my Mom to the emergency room at Greenpoint Hospital, an 11 yo kid, and had to sit and wait while she got 9 stitches in her arm. My Dad couldn't even; didn't have the courage and guts; to take her there. My sisters were crying and I just got up and told my Mom that we would go to the emergency room. I didn't eat pork roast for a very long time, but I now enjoy it every now and then, as I am not big on meat anymore, but still have it if the mood strikes.
     I took the test for MENSA when I was 14, and became a member. I thought that my dad might think me smart, but it only made matters worse. Now, I was dumber than ever before. Because I was smart, I was dumb.
     I never felt more alive than the day that I left to go to college. I was finally out of that hellhole of a family..or non family.
     When I went home during a break in my first semester, (excuse me if I become a bit graphic) he was doing the same s*&t again. Hence, our first and final confrontation.....and I had never confronted him before, I was afraid of him before, but I wasn't THAT particular evening. He was yelling at my Mom and made her cry, as she had cried sooo many times before, and he slapped some part of her body. And I told him...and I remember this as if it were yesterday, "IF YOU EVER HIT  HER AGAIN, I WILL KILL YOU!"
      It was at that point that I was invited to leave and not come back, though I was given the grace of a nights sleep, and I said "f*&k you" and was out of the apartment within an hour. Back to Washington, DC on an AMTRAK train. Just a kid, just 17 years old.
      I had several practical points but reliving typed words dulls what those points are. So, go back to Sundial's post and read it.....she said much of what I wanted to say.
      My only advice is, have no regrets about what you WILL do. If you entertain them for a moment, you will find yourself, like me, having regrets and second thoughts over something which is plainly and truly, not worth it!

     Second, Sundrops, do you now see what I mean when I speak of psychic vampyres? What does Mr. Kukla do except feed off the love of others until he bleeds them dry? Until there is nothing more to give? Until he has consumed their being? And when he has taken everything he can take, he still wants MORE!

     Third, hello to you Aquavelva, my heart stuttered when I saw the big print. In my saga related above, only you know what I would have ultimately done, in the grand confrontation.
Quasi im gegenteil, fraulein Aquarius! In einer schlimmen verfassung gewesen, gespannt, mit unsicheren handen...going back to English.....because I find I remember less and less each day......nice to read your words, as I do all the time in rays of Wisdom!

Peace Profound,
Marty and KittyKatz, Luckylee, Poppyhead, and SissyGirl....hmmm, she is sick
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sunflower
Posted 6/3/2008 7:24 PM (#6344 - in reply to #6295)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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hello mr m,i do understand what you have been through,as i have had similar situations in my life,and its only when you have walked in others footsteps,we can connect with their soul suferring.What!!! you and i never agree,i would say,we may speak in diferent tongues,but we understand the same language.I admire what you have achieved,and i mean this with honest sincerity.I beleive kukla will succeed far above what she beleives now,and more,sorry kukla,not ignoring you,i,m still sending out love to you,you see,when i see another soul suffer at the hands of others greed and selfishness,for their own gain,it makes me mad,and sad,you are just fueling his ego,keeping him alive,but killing you,metaphoricaly speaking,so i look forward greatly,to hear very soon,of your great release,and ultimate happiness,i know this will be so.I also,like aquarius,beleive that we choose our family before we come to this earthplane,to learn lessons,that we never had the chance to finish in the last life.good luck,love to you,iris xxx
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aceraven
Posted 6/3/2008 11:22 PM (#6345 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Judy my dear,
Aceraven hear...just want to let you know it sounds like the old "light side vs dark side" ploy that so many of us humans take on. You my dear are operating on the light side & value peace & such. Now Poppa is on the dark side and he is doing a wonderful job of dark side tactics. Don't worry about Dad thinking like you cause he can't. You have the true power of love & he uses the power of fear. Love him & forgive him because you can. He will never be able to feel the love you want him to because he can't. Welcome to the side of light, much greatness awaits you. Poor Pops is on his way out, forgive him my dear because his days are numbered along with all the others who operate like him. Work on your love & forgiveness & claim your true power. You can feel compassion, he can not. Don't expect him to feel like you can. Love him just like he is and work on the really important things like metaphysics. You are surrounded by good people here, let go of fear & embrace love.
your traveling bud, aceraven
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John W. Kelly
Posted 6/3/2008 11:53 PM (#6346 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Wow! I am very thankful to have the parents I do. I can't recall them even yelling at each other.
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sunflower
Posted 6/4/2008 1:26 AM (#6347 - in reply to #6346)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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dear mr kelly,you are indeed fortunate to have had good parents,therefore it must be hard to imagine someone in kuklas position,in fact across the globe,there are thousand of children being abused,even as we speak.That is why i think it important to give out love,especialy to those brave,and desperate enough to call out for help.Ihave noticed your postings from time to time,and see that you do pop in,and say the few words,you may be a shy person,forgive me if this is so,but with your message of thanks for your parents,i would have sincerely hoped,you could maybe have added a touch of warmth towards kukla,maybe just a note to say she is in your thoughts,as i say,i am pleased you were so fortunate,this post showed you another side,an arm outsretched,a warm word,etc,goes a long way in helping to heal those in pain,as we forget sometimes how forunate we are,and can afford to help otheres less so,in times of great suferrinng,we need to know there is someone who cares.love to you my friend.x
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John W. Kelly
Posted 6/4/2008 9:58 AM (#6358 - in reply to #6347)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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sunflower - 6/4/2008 1:26 AM ...you do pop in,and say the few words...

I'm a firm believer in Ockham's razor!
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sunflower
Posted 6/4/2008 10:43 AM (#6359 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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mmm.i confess my ignorance,and don,t know what ockhams razor is,i will look it up,maybe sometimes a cut is too deep,fewer words said the better? whatever,it means,i still stick to my beleif,i am not being aggressive here you know,and i,m not ashamed of being unable to understand the above,to me love is all,the caring and sharing,the giving and taking,ok,i,m off to find out,may come back...mr kelly.

love and light to you lukla xxx
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aceraven
Posted 6/4/2008 11:52 AM (#6360 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

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Hey Good one,
Mr Kelly, I had to cheat & google it..."All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best." Is this it?
And with the parent thing, Dad was the controlling one but Mom taught me love...Kukla2555, I hope things are getting better for you, I spent most my life trying to get Dad to be nice, but I learn to love him as he is. Unconditional Love can be very hard to do, so start with yourself. Love yourself Unconditionally & work from there.........keep on truck'n y'all, aceraven
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sunflower
Posted 6/5/2008 4:32 AM (#6372 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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well kelly mr,i did,against my better judegment look up okhams,s razor,i got bored after a short while,as there were so many pages... big words scrabble my brain,don,t understand half of them,i,m not very academic you see,but does that make me any less worthy of the brilliance of the academic person,who uses long words and phrases,that aren,t ,to me,necessary on a spiritual level.So,gosh iris,never start a sentence with so,it means basicaly,fewer words spoken,mean more,sometimes this is the case,in others,such as this,the person in pain needs to connect with others tying to help,and to truly connect the person giving advise etc,needs to explain they have been through similar,therefore,can experience,feel,their pain and anguish.Anyway,you may have said fewer words,and incidentaly,this is not a competition on who can say the most words,the few words you spoke,were of no help to kukla,as you were only saying how fortunate YOU were,so to me they were wasted words,for this situation,as you didn,t give out any love,kind thoutht etc,which was greatly needed.All i can say is put that in your metaphorical pipe,and smoke it.mmmm,i,m allowing you to get to me,so in as few words as i can manage,bye kelly.
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Chotuni
Posted 6/5/2008 5:22 AM (#6374 - in reply to #6358)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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I liked Ockram's razor so much I nearly bought the company!
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aceraven
Posted 6/5/2008 12:14 PM (#6380 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Hey Chotuni,
I'll buy stock if you do buy it....peace out
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/5/2008 1:47 PM (#6383 - in reply to #6372)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

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Part of community membership surely, is that each person's contribution has validity from their perspective. The whole point of sharing perspectives is to discover the truth that might, or might not be, held and discovered in common. If a member asks for help or assistance, we each might offer or contribute what might or might not help take that person further. I think casting negative ascriptions around furthers no-one. The focus here i had thought, was the positive good that focusing on the good, the truth and the light, permits the unfoldment of. Love and light to you Kukla, whatever decision(s) you can accommodate within your destiny and life choices. It is not an easy thing to say, or do; but try to choose the best for yourself, as your life is Yours.

Blessings
Paul
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aceraven
Posted 6/6/2008 12:36 AM (#6395 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


Member

Posts: 28
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Hi Paul Joseph,
You make a very good point. And after reading some of your post, I would like to find time to read more. I gotta take leave for awhile but am looking forward to further post. May this school be blessed in its valued work and until we post again, your traveling bud, aceraven
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Paul Joseph
Posted 6/6/2008 4:03 AM (#6399 - in reply to #6395)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



PhD Alumni

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Location: United Kingdom
Dear Aceraven .. you might have been reading my mind; I have been contemplating withdrawing for a while; but your warm words make me reconsider .. though I will be away for a couple of weeks holiday after the weekend anyway ... will review my thinking when i get back. Best to you too !!
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Chotuni
Posted 6/6/2008 10:12 AM (#6404 - in reply to #6399)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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P.J., I apologise to kukla for the last post, I am still considering her question and what would be my response to it. meanwhile to you can I say, forget ums, cogitate, keep off-lne,have your two weeks away free from mental distraction and come back refreshed and full of vigor, enjoy your holiday as much as I enjoyed my recent trip, look forward to the next two weeks.
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Chotuni
Posted 6/9/2008 9:38 AM (#6505 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Dear Judy,There are lots of cliches one could use such as"a problem shared is a problem halved", and others but I don't suppose they would be helpful.For myself, I would think your father has a 'standing' in the community and regards himself as something 'special'.Well what if he knew that all your friends at U.M.S are aware of his abuse and that if it continues your local community will also find out and his 'standing' would be diminished.Not very spiritual maybe but possibly effective? Also, from a spiritual position I suppose you would have to say that the problem is his, he seems very insecure, maybe as a result of his upbringing, and needs pity and understanding.How would he react if you were to tell him you feel for him and the way he was abused as a child and doesn't he realise he is treating people the same way? As you can see I don't know what to suggest, but just know that we are all praying for you and sending our love and healing to you.Could you not earn some money of your own so you do not have to be so dependant on him?

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Rose
Posted 6/15/2008 7:23 AM (#6569 - in reply to #6505)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Chotuni! This is beautiful!
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Aquarius
Posted 6/16/2008 7:49 AM (#6582 - in reply to #6295)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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'Quasi im gegenteil, fraulein Aquarius! In einer schlimmen verfassung gewesen, gespannt, mit unsicheren handen...going back to English.....because I find I remember less and less each day......nice to read your words, as I do all the time in rays of Wisdom!'

Glad to hear it; thanks and God bless, dear friend. Hope you're feeling much better by now.

With love - Aquarius

 

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Dancer
Posted 6/17/2008 10:39 PM (#6611 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Posts: 54
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Hello there. Just so happened to log on tonight and saw your message. Those who seem the most unworthy of love are those who need it most. There are two things I would advise. First, be as absolutely loving as you can no matter what he says/does to you. If you are ridiculously sweet (not sarcastic) and realize that the best thing you can do for him is to spread your loving light to him, you will knock him off his balance. Also, visualize him often in a bubble of pink light. Ask your angels and guides to keep you free of all negative energy that may come from him and protect you from any positive energy he may be sucking out of you. Bless him often. One mantra you may say in your head is "I love you, please forgive me, I'm sorry, thank you." If this is too hard now, try instead "I love you, I forgive you, Thank you" until you can do the other one without any emotional charge.
You do need to leave this situation as it is not for your highest good as far as I see it. However, you must do so smartly. Do not be a victim any longer, whether you live with him still or not. Choose to see everything he does as him crying out for love from whatever has ailed him that he hasn't healed from his own childhood or adulthood. He hurts you because he thinks it will feel better to have people to comisurate with that feel as bad as he does. However, he will never feel better by doing this because he will always need a new fix. Once he pulls you down enough he will move on to someone else.
He is not a bad man he is a hurting man, as is everyone who feels the need to take positive energy from another.
When he hurts you verbally, bless him and move on. Do not take it personally, it has nothing to do with you.
Then, when you've got him reacting a bit differently to you, move out. I am sure that by getting over this giant block of being a victim, the universe will open up new options to you to help you move forward.
Think about it this way-- HE is not holding you and your sister back. You are letting him have control over you.
Take back your control. Realize he is in DEEP need of love because he is lacking it very much. Bless him, and move on.
Lots of love.
Feel free to pm me if you'd like to talk further.
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mruppert
Posted 6/18/2008 3:00 AM (#6612 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Hi Aqua, water girl; Kukla and Dancer:
   Und was nun?
   Ya know, I wanted Romania to advance in Euro2008, though I will always cheer Deutschland on. I have grown to like the Turks, because of the valiant and furious effort they played, in a pivotal match, against the Czechs. This is a dichotomy, since the Romanians have an intense dislike for the Turks.
     But we are talking footie (football, soccer for those of other countries) and it doesn't really matter!
      In Greek, Kukla is a doll or plaything....I think that is true of modern Greek as well as ancient Greek. Someone on this site must speak Greek.....BUT Kukla was also a hand puppet, in a telly show way back when in the early days of telly, when I was a very small kid.
      Dancer has anaylzed the situation much the same as I have, but has great sympathy for the protagonist and only somewhat for the victim(s).
      My allegiances of truth lie in the victims and screw the old man! Let him rot in his own personal hell!
      So, I still say, KUKLA (if you haven't all ready) get the heck out.....grab sis and GO! Duddy will work it out on his own..he's a grown man and will figure it out if he hasn't all ready.

DANCER: You are very willing to forgive, but how much will you forgive?

Peace and Love,
Marty and Luckyluddite, Poppyopium, and Sissygorilla
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Dancer
Posted 6/18/2008 7:00 PM (#6620 - in reply to #6612)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Hey Marty. Thanks for the shout out.
I advocate blessing and moving on because the burden to carry will be hers and hers alone if she continues to stay a victim in the situation. I do feel empathy for her but also want to offer no holds barred honest help as she asked for help. My sympathies and love and light only would be nice of course, but I wanted to also provide some tools for going forward.
I DO think she should leave, but since she probably has been placed in this family this lifetime for a reason, it will only cause more harm than good for her to leave without facing the lesson that needs to be faced- in this case victimhood. If she leaves without facing the issue, it will only re-appear in her life under different circumstances later. Releasing victimhood is a very hard but important lesson to learn. Only you have the power to take back your own power by refusing to be a victim.

Blessings and love to all on their journeys.
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mruppert
Posted 6/18/2008 9:15 PM (#6621 - in reply to #6620)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Heeellooo DancingQueen:
     "Releasing victimhood is a very hard but important lesson to learn"

      Right you are, Tango.......it has taken me years to give up victimhood and it's most important followup...REVENGE! Curiously enough, it was a UMS person that made me really think about the folly of it all, in the mindset and life that I have lived. We are, both, not the same since then. The other is radiant in a new life...and I am just learning to live anew.
      I just didn't want KUKLA to ever regret what she must do....and she MUST DO IT!

Peace,
Marty and Upheaval Cats.........see another post!

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kukla2555
Posted 6/26/2008 11:09 AM (#6701 - in reply to #6620)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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I want to leave and I'm trying desperately to save money to leave but it's hard when I don't have a degree and when I go for interviews they check my credit... I know i should be making way more than i do but what can i do in an economy that is the way it is. I like my job and I am trying but it's hard. I suffer from depression and anxiety and I think that also prevents me from wanting and being/doing more than what I already am and do. I need to put money into my car so I have a car to make it to work so now the money i did save is going towards that instead of what i wanted it for.. moving out. My goal is to get out in January. I'm off the whole month from work and that gives me an additional 5/6 months to pay off my bills and save.

I'm not the best at saving or with finances but i am trying.
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kukla2555
Posted 6/26/2008 11:10 AM (#6702 - in reply to #6505)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Thank you. I wish there was a way for him to lose his status.. but he is such a good b.s.er he's got most of them fooled. Or at least he presents it that way.
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Tracy Martin
Posted 6/26/2008 11:48 AM (#6706 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Begin envisioning your dreams, raise up the feelings that please you. Think of yourself as happy and successful and attracting Good into your life. It is hard to change decades worth of thinking, but it can be done, moment by moment. Every time you think of a negative, an obstacle, a block, turn your thoughts to the positive, the freedom, the ease. It may sound fantastical, but it works!

Your essence is positive, life enhancing energy. Feel the life pulse in your body. Give thanks. Look in the mirror and say "I love you." Keep doing it until you break out into a smile and see the person you want to be looking back at you. Cease from all negative prophetic statements, no more can't, no more blame.

This is not the only answer either but a small part of the puzzle that you can work on.
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kukla2555
Posted 6/26/2008 5:54 PM (#6716 - in reply to #6621)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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I think all of my relationships fail because of him and my situation with him.

Let me ask you this. I have to get my car fixed 700 dollars. could be 1000 but I'm not going to fix everything. The guy is doing it as side work and is saving me about half of what it would cost to take it into a dealership. Problem is if i don't have a car I can't get to work.. but then there goes all the money I saved to pay bills off and move out.

????Any suggestions?

Here's the list:
Brakes
Routers
New Passenger mirror cuz its cut off
Air conditioner is broke
New plugs because said that's what's making the noise from the original set of plugs and it drives me nuts
slow brake fluid leaking
slow gas leak

I think that's it.
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instinctual
Posted 6/26/2008 6:30 PM (#6718 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Oh Darling Kukla-

It must be so difficult to be in your shoes. Truthfully I was walked a few miles in them, however every person's situation is unique to them. In retrospect, what got me through a seemingly endless torture was almost (sounds silly ) and forgive me for possibly stating the obvious here is- Faith. Giving the situation over to the Creator. Talk aloud. Pray. Meditate. Ask, then give gratitude as you Know that your life will turn around when you give it to the light. That does not mean to stop being proactive and realistic because it is apparent that you are and that is indeed important and necessary...but just look into the Light and go about your day with the knowledge that you are exactly where you are supposed to be right now, and that you will be led to all the goodness you desire, and at the same time, all the goodness will be led to you. I wonder if you have read The Secret. Alot of critics out there, and I agree that it can be considered obvious and hokey, but it speaks a basic truth. What you send out into the Universe, you will receive. You, in your sad helplessness are sending out "I can't handle this. I am quantifying (easily done) my problems. I am stuck and I cannot get out". The Universe hears, " She is stuck. She is focusing on all the negativity. I will continue to manifest this negativity for her!!
A simple flip of a switch in your psyche can manifest such Truth, Brilliance and Light that you won't know what hit ya! So perhaps you can try sending out this energy:
"I am worthy of peace and happiness. I know that the Universe will Manifest for me in whatever way I need and desire as long as it is for the Greater Good of myself and all others. I am grateful for all that you manifest for me". Sweet one, you will feel a physical shift. This I promise you. Before you know it, your words and actions will take on a different flavor. You will have positive changes in your life in ways that you never even knew needed changing. When you hand over your life to the Love and Light of the Creator of the Universe, a physical weight will be lifted off your shoulders. You will feel lighter. You will have more energy to expect only healthy relationships and wonderful situations. You are so bogged down by the weight of your day to day anxiety that you are not aware of how heavy it is! Every day, as you live this current life, know that it is one day closer to your happiness.
Certainly here I express my own opinion and not the opinion of others necessarily. I just know deep in my heart of hearts that you will be joyous!
Love and Blessings to you-
Lori
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Supernatural3
Posted 6/27/2008 9:21 AM (#6729 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Find and date a man who is "Mr. Fix it". They do exist.... i married one. I was so impressed that he could fix so much, it was hard for me not to stare in ahhhh.

Don't get me wrong, I am somewhat of a Ms. Fix it, so if he cannot do it, chances are, I can.
Unfortunately, we too, ALWAYS have cars broken down. Be glad it is only your own car. Wait till you have a bunch of kids and their cars break down. My kid #3's car is broken right now. Last night my hubby went to the Emergency Room, so I had my daughter drive me to him. We got into her car and we started driving. I told her to immediately stop, turn around and go back home. Her car was so horrible sounding, i thought it wouldn't make it. The engine light is on, and the oil light kept flashing on and off..... GREAT! ACK.....

I made her take my other daughters car, that was leaking anti-freeze constantly, even though we kept fixing it, and fixing it. While she was in college, we stored it in a garage, only for it to leak all over. One week ago, we finally got it to stop leaking. Only had to work on it four times. Now, Thankfully my husband knows a lot about cars, or my dad. I am pretty much car DIR!

My mini-van is possessed. I am pretty sure there is something ALWAYS wrong with it and it's been that way ever since we bought it. Time for a trade in.

My daughter#2, finally has a car that I do not have to have fixed all the time. She bought her father's car (My ex) so now when it breaks down, she goes to HIM. Whew..... one less for me to deal with.

So my point in all this is: Look for qualities in men that are able to fix things. Saves a lot of money, and they impress the heck out of us women.

Now, i know that cannot solve all your problems, but having such qualities around really does save a lot of money in the long run.

Just giving my own perspective, may not be that easy.
Blessings and I hope your car gets fixed.

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Rose
Posted 6/27/2008 1:07 PM (#6730 - in reply to #6729)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Doc, I just love your suggestions! Yes, remember the days when men were really taught by their fathers to fix things? Now that the economy is slowly eliminating the middle class more people will start to place value on those talents. People will start to appreciate a woman who can cook a restuarant style meal at home and a man who can save money on having to not hire out for a plumber, or mechanic...etc.

It's a slow burn where there will be simply those that have and those that don't. What I was happy to hear was that more and more people are canceling their cable because they need money for gas. I think an answer to help our struggling families and individuals is to cut back and simplify.

I would love to see more and more people raise food in their own small gardens, no matter how small. Raise fresh herbs, dry and package the leftovers for neighbors, family and friends. If we learn to help rely and support the people in our own communities then it will make it awfully difficult for many Americans to be so badly explioted.

Here's an idea, have a community center in every township, and I say township where people can bring extra food, clothing, etc. Think about it...People can donate their skills like fixing things...just an idea. We need some sort of ideas to help stop this madness that we are dealing with in today's economy.
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instinctual
Posted 6/27/2008 1:12 PM (#6731 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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hahahahaaaaa Jill that makes me laugh and smile because it reminds me of a common but all too true saying-

"The grass isn't always greener on the other side".

My husband is a brilliant scientist. Patents, articles, you name it. But he will carry a hot pizza into the house like a book, vertically and under his arm. No Joke! I can rearrange my entire house without him noticing. I have cut my hair from back length to a pixie and he says " Hmm...what's different about you"? I have put up and decorated Christmas trees over the last 18 years of our marriage and he does not notice. He is sweet, loving, patient, kind caring and- being the consummate engineer, very linear in his thinking. Car repair? That's what mechanics are for. We could have saved so much money over the years!!! It frustrates me to no end. What I do have, though, is a tender sweet husband who lets me flow.

Kukla Love, I certainly do not mean to make light of your situation, but perhaps it is a reminder to smile, and laugh, and count the blessings we do have.

Blessings to all! And those come with smiles and love.
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instinctual
Posted 6/27/2008 1:12 PM (#6732 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Oh Hi Rose, your post slipped in a few minutes before mine. Waving Hello Pretty Rose!!
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instinctual
Posted 6/27/2008 1:18 PM (#6733 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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PS: Rose, great idea. Side note- have you read Animal Vegetable Miracle? Amazing and True story about a family who moves from Tucson to Appalachian region to live off their own food for a year, complete with cooperatives and neighbor sharing and bartering. I boasted about this book on another thread here, but it wants to be talked about again, apparently!! xo

(Again, apologies to Kukla, this post may well belong on another thread )
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sunflower
Posted 7/4/2008 4:50 AM (#6892 - in reply to #6716)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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hi kukla,i was thinking of you this morning,and wondering how things are going,i hope and pray they have changed fro the positive.You say all your relationships fail because of him,i think they fail because you are in a situation of low self esteem,because of your fathers constant putting you down,you have come to beleive it yourself,of yourself.You also say you have a car,that you planned to use for work,etc,and also to escape,but itts all going wrong.I think you are in a very negative cycle,and i feel the ony way out,is to walk away.Don,t set yourself a target date for when to leave,as that date will come and go,and you ill still be inn the same situation,with even more problems.Some may say things happen when the time is right,in some cases this does apply,in yours the time is long overdue.If you keep waiting for the circumstances to be right,you will in this case never go forward.So,i say to you again kindly,don,t just think about action,take it,now.You may have no car,no money,etc,but if you have your self respect,and wish no more things to be takenn from you,it is you who can change this situation immediately.It is frightening to make a move when you are in such a situation,but i guarantee,that once you put in your mind,I CAN,AND I WILL,then act upon it,your whole life will change,and you will find help will arrive from the most unexpected sources,and guide you to where you should be.Its easy to say,let go of the fear,but go with the fear,don,t let it be your constant companion,but waiting for it to go,in your situation,will just bring more fear,so,take it with you,along with the safe and sure knowledge,that you have taken a positive step,which in itself wil attract positive things to you.I feel so strongly this is the way for you,but no one can make your mind up for you,you have wasted enough energies in your ongoing situation,it shows you have strengh,use that strengh to take that first step.As i say,i have not heard from you in a while,so please,if you can,let us know what is happening,forget "if you can",change that to i will,okay,love and hugs to you,and the promise of a bright and happy future,iris xxx
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kukla2555
Posted 7/9/2008 5:37 PM (#6963 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.


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Thank you.

I need to save money.. I don't have it to do right now and I don't have the credit to do it either.. I'd have to rely on someone elses name and credit to soley have my own apartment. I suppose I could find someone looking for a roommate, but I fear of living with someone and not getting along with them., then what about my cat that i dearly love so much.

As for my father, he's been better.. as better for him can be. We have a mutual friend who acts as a mediator that helps me out tremendously when he gets into his tiffs.

I really want my own place. I have huge issues picking up on everyone's energy and really feel that my home shouldn't have to be that way.
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Tracy Ann
Posted 7/10/2008 12:21 AM (#6969 - in reply to #6205)
Subject: RE: Forgiveness, need a spiritual advised answer or suggestion, please.



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Be the change you want. You want him to take responsibility for his actions so you must do the same. Be financially, emotionally& spiritually independent of him for both your sakes. Then blame cannot be attached. Teach him by example. Its the only way. If he changes he does if he doesnt, he doesnt. You will have done all you can. There is peace in acceptance. You 'appear' to be suffering lack. Supply is not getting, supply is giving. Give him what you want/need to recieve. I hope this makes sense. Godbless you my friend and take heart. Truth and happiness will get you in the end.
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