DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?
Rose
Posted 4/3/2008 2:50 PM (#4222)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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A couple of attorney's were discussing this on the news the other day. Now I haven't researched the percentages but the general idea is that more american men abandon their families than any other group of men....Hmmmm....if anyone finds statistics to suggest differently please share. But there are those that feel that women get the short end of the stick in marriage, over and over again. So a couple of these news reporting professionals chimed, "why get married? Marriage is antiquated!"

Care to share your thoughts and opinions on this subject?

Personally, it appears as though there is a trend moving in this country. I wonder how many young women today are more interested in having families than great careers. On a whole, it does appear that the career offers more longterm security. Especially when marriages are failing at record numbers.

My personal jury is still out on this subject, and searching for more and more information to chew on.

So please do share your thoughts...

Love and peace to all of you.....
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Tracy
Posted 4/3/2008 4:18 PM (#4223 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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I would say that there will be marriage, and there will be partnerships, and there will be all kinds of relationships as there are and always have been. Marriage as a contract between people will continue, as will divorces, and separations. So I don't think marriage will ever be antiquated as there will always be couples who want to make a solemn agreement with one another. I also think that the trend throughout history has been one of many relationships in a lifetime, although many have been covert. So it doesn't seem to be a this or that kind of issue to me, it's just the way it's always been.
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/3/2008 7:24 PM (#4225 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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My two cents worth.... LOL

Our system is set up for marriage. Insurance will not cover house hold adults, if no marriage is present. Religion also teaches strong marriage vows and there are still more religious people out there than non-religious people. Look at our court system for example. We swear into a bible.

Yet, it's becoming so easy to leave your partner, but harder to abandon them. Court systems are hitting dead beat parents hard.

In my own experience, I divorced my first husband, my lifestyle hit an all time low, and I was the one with the kids and no career, because I chose to be a mom, instead of career woman. Which landed me in a world of hurt, when I couldn't stay married with someone who mentally and physically abused me. This is WHY woman now choose careers, they watch how bad their moms struggled, while taking on all the kids and daddy went out to play golf, date, run around and forget the kids existed. It's a real shame. At least they are forced to pay child support now, or they lose their drivers license, and sometimes have to go to jail.

However, it also DOES happen the other way around. I am now re-married, and my husband is the one who took over raising his kids. I am the full time step mother to my husbands kids. While he still has a career, and I am now building mine, he is the one who gave up the bachelor life, to keep his kids. But he won me, because of that very point. I saw how much he wanted to be a part of his kids life, and wouldn't give up, fought and won. ((( My HERO)))

I have been with him now for 6 years and I can say, I believe now in holy matrimony. He doesn't deserve anything but the best, and I hope I can be the one to give him that.

So, I honestly think, when it's right, marriage is right. But it may take twice or more to figure out just what one really does like. Had I not gone through a bad marriage, i may not have appreciated the one I have now. I hope to keep this one.

Anywho, that is how I see it, but I can understand the points made very much.
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SouthernCrow
Posted 4/3/2008 7:52 PM (#4228 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Dear Rose,

It is a fairy tale for many to marry a handsome or beautiful partner and be happy ever after. One has to question the motivation to get married, is it for emotional security, to bring children into the world, to acquire money or status , to have regular access to sex, or a feeling of love and affection for that person. I believe that rigid teachings such as the traditional churches "no sex before marriage" is fading away this is a law created by man not by God. Marriage is also something that binds though the mind a contractual agreement it does not necessarily correspond with binding through the heart. There are many marriges that are still together because of the sense of duty - the mind bind, instead of the heartstrings which bind. Even if one loves another dearly it may not be in their highest good for them to get married. One has to be perceptive of divine signs or messages from a higher dimension in order to comfortably make that decision. Another consequence of marriage is that it can result in a loss of passion through monotonous sex. Passion exists in things that are renewed or new. The excitement you felt when you had your first bicycle can be likened to the excitement of a new relationship since both are new. The heart however has its own agenda, In its spiritual centre there exists a candle that can ownly be lit by a special person. The heart ultimately seeks that person the special one. In my experience it takes many tries and trials in order to find that one. The ideal partner is a mirror or reflection of oneself someone who wants to create the same and until one is clear about their own mission in life and who they are it is impossible to know if that other person is a good partner. Know oneself and their mission on earth first, find partner to create it with second.


Edited by SouthernCrow 4/3/2008 8:02 PM
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Supernatural3
Posted 4/3/2008 9:43 PM (#4229 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Wow that was very beautifully put.

I enjoyed reading that post very much, made a lot of sense.

What a great topic.
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Rose
Posted 4/4/2008 10:36 PM (#4246 - in reply to #4225)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Good point Doc, and good point Tracy. Maybe there's hope yet for the romantics at heart. I would like to believe that it is a possibility, but sometimes it's easy to lose heart with all the failing relationships around us.

And Doc is right, our society does endorse marriage. But I wonder if it's for nothing more than getting people together to procreate. I would hate to think that we need all these young people just so they can be sent off to die in foreign lands. When I look at all those young soldiers faces...I can't help but think, "this is what we are here to do to our children?"
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Rose
Posted 4/4/2008 10:41 PM (#4247 - in reply to #4228)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Southerncrow, you said something that I don't believe I've ever heard before. You mentioned the perfect partner being a reflection of ourselfs.....that's an interesting concept. I never thought of it that way before. Many times people say opposites attract, but on the other hand birds of a feather...

If someone is a reflection of yourself and you have traveled that road to self discovery how much more likely is it that you will have insight into assisting your partner on their path?

Thanks for sharing that. Now I'm chewing on your words and formulating all sorts of possibilities. You never know when your words will form a key that unlocks new and creative ideas and realizations....
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mruppert
Posted 4/5/2008 12:21 AM (#4248 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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"Isis, oh Isis, you're a mystical child,
What drives me to you is what drives me insane,
I still can remember the way that you smiled...
On the fifth day of May in the drizzlin' rain"
----The Ballad of Isis, aka Isis, as sung by Bobby Dylan
Hi all:
     To this very moment, I love my bride Isis; but we did not turn out like the song. And thus, we are apart forever.
     I have not, nor ever will, love anyone the same.
     HOWEVER, back to the topic.....I am confused as to what is really being discussed here (and I noted that I am the first male to respond).
      Marriage is a civil and religious contrivance, and, at best, is a ceremonial declaration of "love and fidelity". At worst, it is a means to establish certain rights and entitlements. The history of marriage is long, so I can't really get into it without boring you all to sleep.
       My opinion is that one cannot really say it is antiquated; if one means that it has no long lasting value in a society, because it does, if just for the sole purpose of undoing it.
       Also, if we are to try to equate marriage  with love, then we might just as well try to equate an apple to an orange...which can be done...both are fruit, both have common vitamins and minerals, both grow on trees, both make nice juice, etc. But, no one of us would mistake an apple for an orange.
        To me, love is spiritual and mystical in nature. It is there, or it is not. When it is there, then there is a melding of two souls to become one, yet mindful of the individuality of the each persona. Whether the two souls involved are in happy cohabitation, or thousands of miles apart, or separated by the veil of mortality, the "love" is STILL there, as it is energy, which cannot be created or destroyed. It simply is!
         The elegance of this idea is proved by the study of the quanta. When an electron is split at, say, a 45 degree angle, and each flies off into space....each will always maintain that 45 degree angle in relation to the other, through  space, time and infinity; each always aware of the other.
          Hah! I've made love the science of electron orientation and quantum physics, silly me!
          When you are in love, you know you are and you know you always will be; when you are married you know you are, but there is always the chance that you won't be.       

Peace to you,
Marty and Cats who love by fighting over who gets to sit in the box.
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Dancing Daisy
Posted 4/5/2008 3:47 AM (#4253 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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the wise choice would be to do both! Be a career woman AND get married if that's what you want. That way you have all bases covered!
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MollyB
Posted 4/5/2008 12:31 PM (#4255 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rose...

If you think of the nature of a reflection, there is sameness and there is also opposite...left looks like right, etc. So that leads me to believe that same and opposing attributes are existing in a relationship of twin flames ("the one"). As far as soul mates, opposites attract, I think, in order to teach eachother, but the people are often similar in beliefs or at least have some common ground.

But then again, none of what I'm saying has to do with marriage, lol.
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Rose
Posted 4/5/2008 3:47 PM (#4257 - in reply to #4248)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Mruppert, I believe that all human unions are okay as long as both people are self discovered and agree as to what they are getting themselves into. I think the problems arise when one person signs up for one type of relationship and the other has a whole other idea of what a relationship should be.

Both parties need to agree, it needs to be a mutual agreement and not unilateral agreements. You know what I mean?

Like what you wrote about Isis....beautiful..
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Rose
Posted 4/5/2008 3:50 PM (#4258 - in reply to #4255)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Sounds like your talking about marriage, in some ways, yes it's like marriage. Maybe if we looked at marriage more as a union that is designed to help all the participants on their spiritual paths we would find more compassionate partners...not doormats...compassionate partners with a healthy ability to also say, Okay I understand, but don't tread on me...


Love and Peace...Seatle Washington...Do you like that Seatle's Best better than Starbucks?
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mruppert
Posted 4/6/2008 5:39 AM (#4262 - in reply to #4257)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rosey, et al:
     But, wouldn't you agree that no matter what you start out with, that over time the relationship will "evolve" into something else. Hopefully, it deepens and matures, like the aging of wine. But, sometimes, it fragments.
      "Relationship" is a tricky word. And, it may or may not bear upon love, just as marriage may or may not bear upon love.
      Go back a way in history and look at the monarchies of the 15th through 17th centuries.......royals "married" other royals for expediency. So, you had a 35 yo man "marrying" a 13 yo girl. Why? Because England didn't want to fight a war with Spain, but wanted Spain as an ally against the French.
       The marriage is a marriage; but there is no love, and therefore, by my definition, it is not.

Peace n' Fraternite;
Marty and
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Rose
Posted 4/6/2008 6:22 AM (#4263 - in reply to #4262)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Mruppert, you bring up a good point. I think it's worth a look to go back and see exactly when love and romantic notions were introduced into marriage. Marriage was more of an arrangement. And a greater deal of the arranged marriages lasted far longer. Now I ask myself this question, "did they last longer because the parties entered into them with the realistic knowledge and expectations that the marriage was originally designed? Whereas today the expectations are far more unreasonable and therefore because the marriage fails to reach romantic notions and expectations they fail at a much higher rate?

Food for thought...Thanks for the response. I am posing these questions to everyone. Share your thoughts.

Peace and Love to all...
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MollyB
Posted 4/6/2008 4:01 PM (#4266 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi Rose...

Personally, I'm a Chock Full o' Nuts girl, and I'm not just speaking of my state of mind, lol! I can't tell much of a difference between Seattle's Best and Starbucks. Maybe because they're both owned by the same co.

Take care!
Molly
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Rose
Posted 5/14/2008 1:11 AM (#5217 - in reply to #4266)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Interesting you mentioned this, they ran a news story about Seattle's best but never mentioned that they were owned by the same company.

Where did you find that information?

Another funny thing, was I walked into a Seattle's Best and thought I was at Starbucks, because I saw the initials SB on signs all over. Then I realized I was in Seattle's Best! But that's how similar they're layouts are....
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mruppert
Posted 5/14/2008 3:28 AM (#5227 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi to all on this post:
     My Mom used to take me to the "Chock Full O' Nuts" coffee shop after she got off work, in Rego Park, Queens, NY.
      I would always order a "clam roll" and a brownie. The only other place that had clam rolls was HoJo's (Howard Johnsons).
       For me, marriage is not an antique idea or concept...it is the fabric of life. Had it not been for my Mom to marry my Dad, I may have not known the joys of Chock Full of Nuts!
        But, the pure hatred that they had for each other, certainly colored my mind.

Peace,
Marty, and sleepy cats, est.

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NothingEverything
Posted 5/14/2008 4:38 AM (#5231 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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This is not so much about your original post, so I'm sorry.
This focuses on the "Marriage in Antiquated"
Marriage is quite successful in many countries.
I never take American or "western" values as being
the standard. Asia claims more than 60% of the population with Africa claiming another 12%.
North America bearly breaks 5%, The failed relationships that exist with in America contributes little
to the percentage of relationship data worldwide.
43,500,000 marriages worldwide in 2007. There were 8,750,000 divorces in 2007, thats 5 marriages for every 1 divorce.
This is also about the average over the years.
Basicly, I believe American values are off, proof in the 46% divorce rate...
Mostly due to impulsivness.
One of the many reasons I stay away from the states and married from elsewhere.
Also, humor and understanding does much!

Sources:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/xx...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
(And various statistic websites on the internet)


Edited by NothingEverything 5/14/2008 5:04 AM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 5:59 AM (#5232 - in reply to #5231)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Caught up with this post late in the day. Just to offer this, which in a way harks back to Southern Crow's perceptive comment, that C G Jung referred to 'Marriage as a means of individuation"; ie, the process of working through (and not fleeing) the inevitable highs and lows in marriage - or a long term committed relationships - involves us in learning and self discovery, and the meaning of such otherwise transcendental concepts as, sacrifice, renunciation, selfless love, that ultimately assist us in our 'individuation' - acheivement of consciousness.
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John W. Kelly
Posted 5/14/2008 3:02 PM (#5293 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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If I'm not willing to say "I do" for my wife, what does that say about me? Its a vow I take very seriously.
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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:21 PM (#5294 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:22 PM (#5295 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:23 PM (#5296 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/14/2008 3:23 PM (#5297 - in reply to #5293)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Fascinating point John.

May also depend on how much we connect, Doing with Being.

I do; I am

I offer; I do not know.

After my earlier post I remembered a quote from Winston Churchill, when asked about how his marriage had stayed for so long he said,

'Keep battling on' (actually he used a ruder word beginning with B that I will not use here)

Which kind of illustrates the individuation thing.

Morality and flesh have to work commitment out.


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paddy
Posted 7/26/2010 2:06 AM (#19671 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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My thoughts on this may seem peculiar so please disregard them if they don't resonate with you.

1) Part of the human genome is a monogamy gene. Most people in society have this gene, and
being monogamous in a marriage complements this gene programming. From the standpoint of
dominant monogamy gene programming, marriage is not antiquated.

2) Marriages are time bound, they start with vows and end in death or divorce. Wedding vows
on the other hand, from a historical context and for all practical purposes, are eternal. Once a
sacramental vow is spoken than that history lives eternally ever after. From the standpoint of
time then, marriages alive in good standing are not antiquated.

3) The possibility of past lives brings the possibility of past marriages and past spouses who upon
spiritual awakening recognize each other. Quite possibly a past life spouse can give a person some
profound experience of love greater than a person's current spouse. The relative nature of such
perceptions can cause confusion and misunderstanding. In the context of spiritual relationships,
a poly-amorous attitude seems congruent with such reality as distinct from physical monogamy.
The act of soul mating is not limited to or dependent upon marital status. In the context of growing
by way of this complexity, marriage is not antiquated.

4) Marriage arrangements can offer the opportunity of catalyst that accelerates a person's
growth if used properly. Living in close proximity to another, as marriage can allow, offers
such an opportunity. In the context of growth catalyst opportunity, marriage is not
antiquated.

5) The family is a modular construct of society, and marriage is one vehicle by which a family
can structure itself. Since society is governed by wise leaders who grant tax benefits to such
constructs, it seems that marriage can offer some practical advantage in ways government
would like to encourage. The ideal of a functional family based upon a functional marriage
that sets functional example for functional children is alive and well, but as a generalization it
is not the only way to structure. Possibly people become more manageable as less complicated
to govern when they live married. (Typically, enlightened people are not easy to manage.)
Governmentally, marriage is not antiquated.

6) Spiritually, the notion of Free Will may relate to the idea that we have a god given right
to experience life in ways we freely choose. As a person uses their free will to marry, then
they may find themselves entrapped, enslaved, and cut off from many other ways they may
experience life, by way of an arrangement made of their own free will. One of the important
lessons of life seems about committing oneself in ways that necessarily entail trade offs.
It may be that people marry in a state of great ignorance relative to the awareness they
grow into later, whereupon they figure out they infringed their own free will to an extent
corrective action is needed which includes taking responsibility for whatever karma needs
resolution. Examples abound of abusive relationships where people muster the courage to
claim such ways of living are not good enough anymore and divorce to grow happier true
to that marital success culminated in divorce. As a person disengages from a Patriarchal
way of living they may better discover a loving Matriarchy that is accepting to any form
of marital status. Congruent with honoring Free Will, marriage is not antiquated.

7) Perpetual trade disparities related to gender differences abound in ways which women
often find themselves unable to earn as much or obtain benefits such as health insurance
to the same degree that a man can. Marriage can enable resources to combine in ways
that buffer such gender difference trade disparities. From a standpoint of evolving society
to greater levels of resource equality, marriage is not antiquated.

8) A very basic trinity is formed by Momma, Poppa, Baby. This trinity resides dear
to every person's incarnation, and is commonly made possible by way of marriage.
From this symbolic standpoint, marriage is not antiquated.

9) I believe in a general sense, that Marriage is Not Antiquated,
even though I'm not presently married nor have any desire to be,
is that a paradox?


paddy




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leo
Posted 7/26/2010 9:33 AM (#19672 - in reply to #19671)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hey Paddy, in response to part 3, my wife from my one other life experience is now my spirit guide (Jessica). She interacts with me by giving me chills. I haven't yet began to channel her in any other way. It is my understanding that once we have established a relationship of marriage, that person is now tied in to you spiritual existence for the duration, that would be an infinite amount of time. Since there isn't any spiritual time as such, they are with you through eternity. Since my free will has taken me through a few marriages, I have several new friends.
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/26/2010 12:11 PM (#19674 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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I do not believe that Marriage is antiquated either. I believe in purpose & devotion to my own husband, at which I couldn't imagine my life with-out.

I longed for him prior, but not knowing who he was, I married first time to the wrong person, at least for long term. We created beautiful children, so it's not a mistake.

Do my vows to my first husband still remain? SURE! I did not want harm to him, we just grew apart and we will deal with that later. Hopefully he will heal, as I have. He still holds resentment towards me. Which means he is still not happy and that does bother me, but it's out of my hands.

My vows to the husband I have now are the most meaningful to me. Perhaps its why I know for sure, I did the right thing.

To each his own though.... does not matter to me if someone else feels as me or not. We each have our own path to walk on. Each will bring happiness or sadness to make a difference in the new moment.

Blessings, so that no person shall ever feel alone.
 
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paddy
Posted 7/27/2010 2:25 AM (#19679 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Thanks for so many replies to this discussion.

Chills. That reminds me of something that may be related.
For a while I studied the Ra Materials put out by LL Research,
five books of channeled transcripts that took place in the '80s.
Often times I would have encounters and then arrive at some
section which complemented my experience. After having
several approaches coinciding with chills, I learned that this
is commonly the indication of the presence of a negative.

In the paradigm of those "materials" a negative was associated
to Service to Self (STS) types, a separative path having a high
density dead end road map of isolation - from which a
turnaround to lower density and Service to Others (STO)
could then allow for progress in the higher densities of evolution.
STS types commonly fall in modes having distortions of power
and manipulation. So these encounters would put me on guard,
(even though further learning would reveal that appearances
and reality may often differ.) Carla, a channel of LL Research,
always confronts whomever she channels in a way that
weeds out the less than fruitful. Negatives don't make the grade
with her, (only the creme de la creme.) Awareness so may help
some person turn a chill-ful guide to higher degrees of service
by a re-orientation (toggle) that is not difficult. Alternatively,
there are methods of clearing that can help rid one of chills.

Marriage can offer many Service to Others opportunities.
In some cases, the Service to Others is so great a person
may feel depleted as bled dry by the other person. This is
not so unlike the notion of sacrifice or crucifixion. When this
line of questioning came about, I remember there was the
suggestion that not playing a Martyr can enable a person
to live another day in chance they can provide Service to
Others as evolved in some expanded capacity.
I admire people who set that example of possibility.

A parallel to this may be the comparison of Mahayana Buddhism
to Vajrayana Buddhism. Mahayana Buddhism is regarded as
the greater vehicle which emphasizes Service to Others and also
encourages social immersion above reclusion.


paddy

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leo
Posted 7/27/2010 8:34 AM (#19680 - in reply to #19679)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Paddy, I can assure you that in my case there is no negative. Just this morning my spirit guide spoke to me through my wife. She told me that she is frustrated that I haven't yet acquired the ability to speak to her more openly. By giving me "chills" she is assuring me that she is with me, thats all. When I read something or say something or something is stated that she agrees with, she lets me know. The only negative is her frustration, she wants to talk with me on a personal level, you know man to woman.
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cause
Posted 8/4/2010 11:52 AM (#19775 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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In interest to this thread; the soviet union considered and in some cases suggested and implemented thoughts to end marriage.

People simply got married anyway!

Antiquated or institution, marriage is something that abides.

cause
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/6/2010 7:19 AM (#19826 - in reply to #19775)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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No

(please refer to the Heaven poem by Tessimond, posted elsewhere
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FoxFires
Posted 8/6/2010 10:53 AM (#19828 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Our concept of what we want from marriage may be antiquated, but the institution is still alive

I feel in general. men have lost the ability to love their spouse correctly. Men tend to focus all of their energy on one thing very well and so inordinate tasks... Forgetting everything else in life. Women want someone who cares about how they feel and most men are apathetic to someones emotions.

So hearing a question of is marriage antiquated... Leads me to believe there is a concern for will I find happiness romantically, and can I marry him, and have things that way for a long time.

Most men seem to be missing the white light in their hearts and some want to keep it that way.

What I do feel is when we make our love life too high of a priority in our lives we tend to loose what we love the most. Life is supposed to be full of happiness and joy. We are not supposed to love someone so much that we allow ourselves to become a co dependent to their problems. We have to draw the line of what and how much we will help.

When someone is married and they overlook what their spouse is doing, and they would tell someone else to not allow in their homes, they allow their loved ones to get away with. I like the analogy of throwing a frog into boiling water and they will jump out, but slowly raising the fire under a pot of water, they will stay there until cooked.

People who don't small talk when they go out to eat, and do not do the public displays of affection, they communicate just fine. They have just discussed everything and have eliminated everything they were discussing. Why discuss a subject that will cause a scene in public.

Finding similar hobbies may help couples keep a marriage non antiquated. Imagine having a partner who you were romantic with and enjoyed hobbies together... I am not talking about house chores, but something you both find exhilarating that you don't do behind closed doors and the light off, or make money doing, or need to get done because it is necessary for what ever reason. Finding things to do together that are done just because it is fun... A good way to describe it is roiling back the priorities and becoming like a child in our hearts and enjoying a fun life!

Love and Light
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/6/2010 11:01 AM (#19830 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Ah Foxfires - your post reminded me of Jung, who wrote of 'marriage as a means of individuation' [presumably this could equally apply to same sex and/or civil partnerships]
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FoxFires
Posted 8/6/2010 1:22 PM (#19836 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Paul,

Jung was first a psychologist then a psychic or this was my feeling. Why make an issue of who is twain to who and why is gender identification required in comments. For all I know God is a female who hates men and this is her chance to prove it and she is giving man enough rope to metaphorically hang himself... With women all watching as witnesses.

It does not matter what I believe or practice inside of a relationship. If I were like many that I have seen I would try to be a sales person of my belief system and proceed to convert everyone to be just like me, because most people think their aspect ratio is the only way to see life.

Why do so many try to determine gender or gender preference before anything else. Does it matter if I am a homosexual or if I have friends that are bisexual... If I am male or female, super model or morbidly obese Am I not allowed to be neutral on a position and just observe the hearts of those I encounter.

Why can't life just be what it is, are they friendly or unfriendly humans. I never understood the which pigeon hole slot do I cast and group this person inside of???

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/6/2010 4:43 PM (#19841 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hello Rose,

I am a continuum man. For me, marriage is a function of balance and love between myself and my eternal continuum woman mate.

Anything else was just play, practice and a lack of commitment to survival. We are married anew with each moment. Just wonderful,

this moment by moment man and woman balance. We have never gone to bed angry at one another. Beautiful! Never had it better.

The blessing of a balanced man and woman marriage is that the love and power is cubed. It's like being 8 people. Otherwise, without

that balance, you have the power and love of 2 people. That's why it is holy and sacred. It makes all the difference. You have to

live it to know it. Its a conscious present moment commitment.



Peace and Joy to all,


Robert,
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/6/2010 7:22 PM (#19842 - in reply to #19836)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi FoxFires,

That's the way life is, not always what we think it is, in our pigeon hole slots.

Depending on what you want to get out of it, it does matter. There is an order

regardless of what we think about it personally.

Thank you for your input: peace through M & W balance,

Robert

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/6/2010 7:24 PM
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/7/2010 9:58 AM (#19848 - in reply to #19836)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Sorry if I was not clear, Foxfires, my intention was exactly as I think you indicate, to be inclusive of and show respct to all human choices, because I realize that even some who post on the Board have a different position (eg, the replies directly following yours).

Edited by Paul Joseph 8/7/2010 9:59 AM
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Ophiucus
Posted 8/7/2010 10:14 AM (#19850 - in reply to #19828)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hello Foxfires

Of course, and has been stated here by others many times, God is female, male, and every aspect in between and beyond: s/he would not be the Divine (and the Divine Friend)otherwise

The differences, our comprehension and perception of them are presented as aspects of our own learning, on the path to becoming the Infinite Self, which of course also, we already are !

Namaste
Ophiucus


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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 10:43 AM (#19851 - in reply to #19848)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Paul Joseph - 8/7/2010 8:58 AM

Sorry if I was not clear, Foxfires, my intention was exactly as I think you indicate, to be inclusive of and show respect to all human choices, because I realize that even some who post on the Board have a different position (eg, the replies directly following yours).


I do understand you were relating to what I composed. As you well know trying to tell others the correct path does not work, and has never worked that well. I posted the reply for the continuity of thought, not really based on your reply. As you seem to have an open mind, and that is the most important aspect of life. Anyone who tells you they have all the answers or seems to always be right (with endless points to prove) by their own admission... Is code for I will not change my mind.

As far as I can tell you are very enlightened Paul!!!

Love and Light
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 11:07 AM (#19852 - in reply to #19842)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Absolute Sovereigncy - 8/6/2010 6:22 PM

Hi FoxFires,

That's the way life is, not always what we think it is, in our pigeon hole slots.

Depending on what you want to get out of it, it does matter. There is an order

regardless of what we think about it personally.

Thank you for your input: peace through M & W balance,

Robert


Hey Robert,
Good morning and how are you today?

I am naive to what is in the future and my willingness to learn to control good and evil has left me feeling powerless but very content. I will have to Google M & W... to decipher the acronym.

I do not want to start an endless discussion on the way life is, which pigeon hole I reside inside in this nano second (10 to the minus 9th power) or my WILLINGNESS to manipulate the future, altering or modifying the future order. As far as changing my mind, I try to be on a floating point mean. I personally can not absorb natures love if I am already full of my own concepts of life.

I noticed you did not state any feelings or reply with how you felt, just the absolute certainties proved to be true to you.

Every creature and every atom in this world is part of us. If we were like a body, where would the rough exterior lie, would that be the skin with callous on the hands or the heart chakra. or the bone material

Love and Light
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 11:38 AM (#19853 - in reply to #19850)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Ophiucus - 8/7/2010 9:14 AM

Hello Foxfires

Of course, and has been stated here by others many times, God is female, male, and every aspect in between and beyond: s/he would not be the Divine (and the Divine Friend)otherwise

The differences, our comprehension and perception of them are presented as aspects of our own learning, on the path to becoming the Infinite Self, which of course also, we already are !

Namaste
Ophiucus


Hi Ophiucus,

I am very certain that the mystery of God will continue. People seem to need to need to identify the gender of a spirit or the sexual preference before continuing with a future discussion. What does it matter what gender I perceive God to be? Life is a learning lesson and we are learning to understand the vast cultural diversities of our fellow humans. In love relationships, women or ladies if you prefer the either term, get the short end of the stick in life and find themselves at the mercy of a male just because they were honest enough to try to love them.

If you look at a boys birth certificate it will say MALE. If you look at a mans marriage certificate is says MAN. The legal verses medical fields do not use the same gender identification term.

If we determine God is anything in particular that we can define with certainty, then our growth cycle is hampered. I have seen the eyes of God when looking at a 2 year old child, but I don't remember the child's gender... It did not seem important at the time. So why do humans feel it is important to point out the gender classification of a supreme being. I think I will keep to vague references in case I am wrong and God takes issue with me trying to unravel the mystery of the Devinne

I agree with the part of infinite self and integration!!!

I like what Red Fox once said(paraphrased), you should be nice to everyone as you never know when you are talking to God, If we know God has three genders in one the we just do a gender check or gender preference check and then can be as uncaring as we like toward them.

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 11:43 AM (#19854 - in reply to #19852)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Dear FoxFires,

Lets just say, that's the "pigeon hole" I am in, and that such "pigeon holes" of everykind are inclusive to us all, are they not?

Please keep in mind, I have chosen an Aritotelean frame of Logic rather than a frame of Mystical Oneness. Our different "pigeon holes."

As such I hold distinctions, whereas ultimately, "Mystical Oneness" does not.


Forgive me, M & W Balance = Man and Woman Balance. It's a "distinction" I hold about reality. It's personal. Has to do with the phenomena

of polarization of opposites and the multiplication of power not available with non-opposites.

Peace,


Robert

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/7/2010 12:09 PM
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 12:19 PM (#19855 - in reply to #19854)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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P.S.

It might be helpful to know I don't believe in a "supreme

being," just a supreme order, that would be the one order of the (man and woman) two-force continuum.

Oh yes, what some complain of about me is the quality of an intransigent mind when it comes to principles, e.g., 2 + 2 = 4.

Peace

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/7/2010 12:38 PM
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 12:37 PM (#19856 - in reply to #19854)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Absolute Sovereigncy - 8/7/2010 10:43 AM

Dear FoxFires,

Lets just say, that's the "pigeon hole" I am in, and that such "pigeon holes" of every kind are inclusive to us all, are they not?
Please keep in mind, I have chosen an Aritotelean frame of Logic rather than a frame of Mystical Oneness. Our different "pigeon holes."
As such I hold distinctions, whereas ultimately, "Mystical Oneness" does not.
Peace


Dear Robert,
If you know you are in a pigeon hole, I can not argue that point effectively. I will say I wish you peace inside of your pigeon hole and whatever other immensities in life you desire that are not harmful to you and others. I feel the pigeon hole concept lead me to believe I could never change in the face of adversity. I do not know about the rest of the world, as I live my life from the way I see it. Running the mile in under 5 minutes did not happen with the mentality of I can not do this! So pigeon holes do reside in peoples lives, think of it as the glass ceiling maybe. I feel like I am in a bee hive or an ant colony some days, and a Bear's den at night... So I tend to stay away for the never, always and absolutes of life. I like the concept of explaining life as you might find that extremely painful or exhausting. Many great profits have said once you reach a certain point, you need to stop drinking mothers milk and practice on meat. I am just trying to explain openness to growth mentally.

I will Google Aritotelean later

There is nothing wrong with anything you are doing, I am no one to say you need to change your perspective. It has served you well and made you happy! and Aritotelean speed my brother

But what if we consider the view of a recent rock star's statement? Elton John, He indicated that a Major Western worshiped Deity was a homosexual. I take no personal stance on the issue nor do I have personal emotions on this matter. But what if we viewed life for a single day as this were true. Would we find a new respect for some people we previously felt were under class or untouchables. When Elton John went public with his revelation they were probably large bonfires with everything people owned that reminded them of Elton John. Why not stop and consider what we dislike the most in people may just be what judges us in life.

I make no assertion that what Elton John said was true or false, but what if we spent a day realizing that that life was larger than I and what I have the least patience for will judge my every emotion. If the Deity takes offense at what is said or written then the Deity can settle their own score with that person, God does not need a human advocate to protect itself

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 12:50 PM (#19857 - in reply to #19856)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Hi FoxFires,

Pigeon holes are inclusive. "Including" yours, and everyone else who "pretends" not to be in one, at the risk of sounding

argumentative. I just admit it. And I am "open minded" about it.


Of course, that is a "distinction" I am making.

Have a peaceful day,

Robert


Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/7/2010 12:53 PM
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 1:07 PM (#19858 - in reply to #19855)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Robert,

You are like everyone else here, just trying to figure out what to do next... I do not feel you are wrong or in error, I do not sit stand or walk in this judgment posture. You have a wonderful mind that can inspire challenges. Life requires challenges or we get out of balance.

I figured that I was not a supreme order being as if I were a Dolphin or Whale, they seem more intelligent than I, they figured out how to exist without a job or supervisor or without needing to turn in daily reports LOL

The 2 + 2 thing yeah... 3 squared plus 4 squared equals 5 squared. So math sometimes had finite jumps and discontinuities. But you are correct in we are what we believe we are!

The problem with life and accelerated growth is we learn others mistakes and believe them as truth. People who read spiritual doctrine wanted to do very bad things to you when you went against the previous beliefs like man flying and the earth being flat. So when I teach things to people I do my best to let them learn from their vantage point, not mine. A lot of the time I agree to disagree for the Moment! But I do not rule out changing my mind later

I do not feel you are wrong though, I just have a few differing opinions.

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 2:23 PM (#19859 - in reply to #19858)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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FoxFires,

It may seem like it, but I am not one who rules out changing my mind. If shown that something new can be integrated with what I already
know to be true or can enlarge upon it or even logically show a new premise to operate from, I am all for it. A new "pigeon hole" as it were.

You know, like the flat earth to the round one and so forth. But I will not accept it blindly. "Feelings" need to be checked out. They are
not valid as evidence. Thanks for the "reasonable" dialog. I only appear closed-minded, especially to the closed-minded.

Peace,

Robert

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/7/2010 2:28 PM
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 3:07 PM (#19860 - in reply to #4222)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Dear Robert.

If you like what you feel from deep inside our heart, and doubt has been displace then I would say you are doing what life has called you to do and asking you would be wrong for me. The way change is initiated is by a request to become more enlightened.

I spent a day with sensory deprivation, blinders on ear plugs and Vick's in my nose, only drinking bottled water and asked how can I help life become closer to God's will. I learned many people get confused by what we think is real. Reality resides in the quiet of our mind. Many years ago I was alive in my flesh, just wearing a meat suit, with no spiritual heart. Now from time to time things break my heart, and I cry, there is a physical pain in my chest when I see an injustice or suffering.

If you read the bible much, there is a passage re-quoted several times... try my reigns... This is also a powerful catalyst if applied with sincerity and can produce results of change. But don't play with this unless you are Absolutely serious on wanting more understanding. Once this starts it can be hard to get the genie back in the bottle. and there is no undo feature that I know about

Love and Light
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leo
Posted 8/7/2010 4:09 PM (#19863 - in reply to #19860)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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FoxFires, If you are interested in Roberts ideology you can check this link:

http://www.manandwomanbalance.com/speaker.html

You may wish to look through the whole site, interesting stuff there.

Leo
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 4:24 PM (#19866 - in reply to #19863)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Leo,

Thank you for the tip!!!

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 4:32 PM (#19867 - in reply to #19866)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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FoxFire and Leo from "Galt's Gulch,"

Chris is my good friend. His out look is not what I would call my "ideology." We differ at certain aspects of the ideas we discuss.


Joy,

Robert

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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/7/2010 5:00 PM (#19868 - in reply to #19852)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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FoxFires,

I can cry at the drop of a hat and I very much appreciate that ability. The feelings and emotions I experience, are usually quite deep and heartfelt,
however, over the last 60 years, wisdom is the ruler over 90% or more. They don't impede my ability to act in my and others best interests.
Its like I used to see and feel two dimensionally and in black and white. Now it's deeply in full color and three dimensions. Everything is much more
"real" and "vibrant" than it ever used to be experienced. And way more absolute. Content, fulfilled, and at peace with life. And my wife, Ruchell, helps to explode
all that into other other dimensions of satisfaction with each moment.

Peace,


Robert

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/7/2010 5:03 PM
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FoxFires
Posted 8/7/2010 11:21 PM (#19873 - in reply to #19868)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Robert,

I take your beliefs at face value just like anyone else's. I do not concern myself with what someone else believes. I am not responsible for that material, yes I do have a duty to help my brothers and sisters. But if God wants them trained in theology, I may just take a sabbatical, as there is so much contention on the gender and color and the right way to hold you tongue when you pray... So I just write this off to beyond my control!

Being in touch with your heart is the greatest gift a male can ever get. That I am sure is pleasing in the sight of God. If you are effective in your application and understanding of how God affects you and others, I would never challenge perfection. But the Spirit did call me to change the way I operated, as I used to be a pure cerebral human with a dead heart. I think It could be as you have stated like comparing watching a VHS tape to 3D IMAX... yes that is what having an open heart did to me. I can know feel a tug on my heart when I am supposed to help someone.

I have been driving home before and my heart will almost try to jump out of my chest, when the spirit wants me to help someone. My life has became full of many synchronous events that I would not know how to describe except as Spirit filled.

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/8/2010 1:58 AM (#19875 - in reply to #19873)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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FoxFire,

Actually, I believe their is a reason that their are men and women, rather than some asexual or androgynous creatures,

and they have a purpose for procreation at every level. Same sex attraction also happens for unconscious reasons much

like drug addiction or stealing or gambling. I don't believe it is an "identity." It is for me a "calling" to be available for them,

but only for those who are ready and willing to go forward on the journey. I hold that such change is possible for those who want it, and

they shouldn't be imposed upon by the social and political brainwashing that is occurring en mass. My heart jumps out of my

chest at this "calling." This is not an easy path believe me. But I know it is true for me and them.


Peace and joy awaits for them,

Robert
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FoxFires
Posted 8/8/2010 8:54 AM (#19878 - in reply to #19875)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Dear Robert,

It is ok in my humble opinion to help a person to change what they want to change.
in my opinion I also believe it is ok to pray for someone to have spiritual enlightenment.

Certain animals will not procreate in captivity, no Matter how hard we try to make them. So from a human point of view we are supposed to respect other creatures and their wishes. Imagine humans to be stubborn animals, the more we try to make them do what we want, the further they will pull away from you.

If you go to get professional services done, and look at a rate sheet and say change my motor oil and fix my brakes and here is the $200 for the work... They return the car and and say well we felt like you needed a nitrous oxide booster kit and a 2000 watt stereo, because everyone who comes here gets one of these first, how would you feel.

It does not matter if we think sexuality seems to be an addiction, unless you have a court order telling you to fix a problem then you have to respect the free will of this person.

When the spirit makes your heart jump out of your chest for an issue, then you may well be called to help people on a matter, but when this happens, you are not supposed to try to glean mainstream support for a cause. When I have a person picking up a promise chip or a 30 day chip or asking to be forgiven for what what they did or for the strength to not go out again, I splash them with white lite and send in angels. When I sense people are targeting sexuality of a person in recovery I research the spirit and ask permission to set a bind on the 13 steppers who are trolling for fresh meat

But remember with power comes responsibility, and even God does not circumvent free will. For us to try to change someone against their will is more than God would do. I do not address issues with people that I am not called to and I do not fuzzie walk free will.

I have found the most effective counsels are reserved in their explanations, but were very understanding and realize they can only help what a person is willing to change.

Love and Light

Edited by FoxFires 8/8/2010 9:00 AM
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leo
Posted 8/8/2010 11:49 AM (#19880 - in reply to #19878)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



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Dear Robert and FoxFires. It is my understanding that each of us makes certain plans prior to our arrival here on earth. Now, there is a dichotomy here, Should we try to change a persons path or leave it alone? Because we are not always (seldom) aware of what it is that we have chosen, how can we then know if we are helping or hindering? If we are uncertain of our own path, how is it that we should determine what anothers is? Truly a fine line there.

We can determine what we want to experience prior to our birth, including parents, friends and any other particulars. Since those of us who have experienced few life experiences have less understanding of our spiritual self, we can become confused. Perhaps it is best to leave it alone. If there is a real sense of intuition to help then perhaps. If we ourselves are confused, how is it that we can assist another? If we are not dead certain of our own beliefs then how does inflicting another with our belief help? At least there is no punishment for getting it wrong. Just another opportunity to get it right.
Be Well in the light and love of the Creator
Leo
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FoxFires
Posted 8/8/2010 1:14 PM (#19883 - in reply to #19880)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


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Hey Leo,

I don't tinker with what I get no call to address. I try not to tell people they are wrong I have much more power when I keep my mouth shut and use the spiritual tools to change things. I don't don't care what someone has for sexual preference. I do take offense to those who use sexuality as a way to get converts that are in recovery.

You are absolutely correct, we as spiritual pillars are here to help those in need or pain. Telling them they need to stop having sex with people of their own gender could be considered as bad as telling them to sleep with you.

I never alter someones path that does not want to be involved in a change. It is wrong to force someone into the the light, If they don't see something in you that makes them want to change, then you missed your chance to change their path. Why try to sell something you don't even look good practicing.

I do not know what happened before this life time and what will happen after this life time. Does it matter if I go to hell or am reborn, or stay in purgatory. Purgatory might be a neat place to practice unconditional love. All of this is beyond my control and are just ways to reason and try to get my mind around God.

I do not change those who are uncertain or certain, I try to deliver help to the ones in pain, those who abuse power and take advantage of others are the ones I will target, I intervene on a spiritual level, telling people they are wrong does not seem to work,

Before I ever take action spiritually, I get a confirmation from the spirit to continue. sometimes the spirit stops me when I ask permission to proceed. I do not change that which I do not have permission to change. Remember there have been many doctrines published, that are good but don't work for everyone. Not that many people have focused on helping people deal with the pain in their souls

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/8/2010 2:38 PM (#19887 - in reply to #19878)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



Student

Posts: 546
50025
Location: Vancouver, Washington USA UMS student
FoxFire,

And thats what I am about. Helping people to change what it is their desire to change, as those with unwanted same sex attraction.

They, not me, desire to be heterosexual and/or live in compatibility with their spiritual beliefs concerning this issue. Those who experience

same sex attraction and are not "gay," "lesbian," or "bisexual" identified.


In October 2003, Dr. Robert Spitzer, professor of psychiatry at Columbia University, published a study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.

He found that men and women actually changed their sexual orientation.

"Like most psychiatrists, I thought that homosexual behavior could only be resisted, and that no one could really change their sexual orientation.

I now believe that to be false. Some people can and do change."

Robert L. Spitzer, M.D., Columbia University
(Achives of Sexual Behavior, October 2003, Vol. 32, No. 5, pp. 403-417)
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FoxFires
Posted 8/8/2010 3:10 PM (#19890 - in reply to #19887)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


Alumni

Posts: 862
5001001001002525
Robert.

I don't know but this seems like an agenda and you are looking for someone to agree that you are correct. I make split second decisions on the emotions i feel coming from a person I am with. I ask the Spirit for permission to deal with what I perceive and follow the Spirit. If I feel anything that is not right about what I am doing, I stop and do not proceed and ask for what emotions I am caring to be transmuted.

I will Never say I am right in what I do, I think I am right. I ask the Spirit to shut me down if I am out of the flow of what I should be doing.

I don't concern myself with every publication, I can prove ANY point that I want, if I do enough research... ANY point can look like a solid argument

The largest reason today, for a pregnant female to die is violence, from their mate

Sometimes homosexuality is really just safe sex

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/8/2010 3:25 PM (#19891 - in reply to #19890)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



Student

Posts: 546
50025
Location: Vancouver, Washington USA UMS student
FoxFire,

It's an agenda in one way, in that there a lot of assumptions of what I am about, and it's not about violating someone's free will.

Maybe six or seven months ago, but not now. And I still remember attacks from the "innocent pretty pink people" who wouldn't

harm a fly in their own mind. I am very sensitive and aware of biased unconscious framing that I bite my tongue on and stay silent.

It's a hazard. I accept it. Some times I blow. It's human, not always excusable, but mostly. I am not just speaking in the dark here.

Whats wrong with credits? We all are writing our papers with supporting credits right. Or are they just meaningless?

Peace,

Robert

Edited by Absolute Sovereigncy 8/8/2010 3:31 PM
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FoxFires
Posted 8/8/2010 3:29 PM (#19892 - in reply to #19891)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


Alumni

Posts: 862
5001001001002525
Robert,

Ok

Love and Light
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Absolute Sovereigncy
Posted 8/8/2010 3:33 PM (#19893 - in reply to #19892)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



Student

Posts: 546
50025
Location: Vancouver, Washington USA UMS student
Thank you Fox Fire for hearing me.
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FoxFires
Posted 8/8/2010 3:51 PM (#19894 - in reply to #19893)
Subject: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?


Alumni

Posts: 862
5001001001002525
Robert,

We all need a friend. Counslers stand in the gap between light and darkness and help people cross over. The people who deserve the most patience in life are pregnant ladies and Counslers as these things can sometimes make you need to scream,

Love and Light
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/8/2010 5:49 PM (#19899 - in reply to #19894)
Subject: RE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MARRIAGE IS ANTIQUATED?



PhD Alumni

200020001002525
Location: United Kingdom
I certainly try not to harm flies. If we have one in the house, I have discovered (and I am being serious), that if one tries to 'think' it out, communciate with it, there is as good a chance of it removing itself as there is of swatting it. And a lot less messy. It kind of works with wasps, but there mental processing is much more difficult, fragmented and bizarre. Though I would prefer not to kill any of them.

I have not seen any pink ones, nor less any 'pretty pink ...' ones though the sky at late afternoon sunset does tend towards a very pretty shade of sky blue pink: I am once again being serious in these observations.

As for marriage, it is not easy, but working it it does offer us a particular kind of alchemical change.

By the way, with reference to an earlier post/comment, an apocryphal Wisdom book of the Bible does refer to the Feminine creative principle of creation as being with God, even at the outset of the creation of the Universe, if not before
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