Posted 3/31/2008 9:34 PM (#4163) Subject: "the chip"
So for those fundamentalist, they would call it the mark of the beast, 666, big brother, etc. Have you read animal farm, the giver, 1984? These books may be coming to life! The first family has already had the "chip" implanted in their arms? A little scarry for me!!! what do you think about this? Is this going to lead to the distruction of our freedom?
Posted 3/31/2008 10:07 PM (#4164 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: NE Ohio
Yeah, I am not too keen on the idea of having a chip inside of me. Makes me feel equal to cattle. I find it invading every aspect of my freedom. I can also see other people chopping off that part, with the chip, to open doors, pretend to be someone else, pass through gates, etc.
A movie that reminded me of such thing is Minority Report. People were kept track by their irises. The only way they could escape that is to have an eyeball transplant. Which did happen in the movie.
Movie's are inspired by real thought, and sometimes those real thoughts are created in real life.
I really do not believe in the mark of the beast though... i find that fictional, due to just being someone's dream. But, it was a good enough story to make the number 1 selling book in history. Gotta give em credit.
Posted 3/31/2008 10:16 PM (#4166 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
It is being used in pets, livestock, prisoners, and the chip companies have tried to advertise it to parents as a precaution, in case your child is lost or abducted. It has been proposed to be used in sex offenders, child molestors, and other ex-cons.
What is the reason they are giving for having a chip put in their bodies?
In my opinion, the reason is likely based on fear.
It is interesting that the mark has the potential for being the mark spoken of in the Christian Book of Revelations, where, in order to buy or sell anything you will have to have this mark. According to Revelations anyone receiving the mark is showing lack of faith towards God and so does not enter into communion with God (that's putting it mildly!). Of course, the mark has also been said to be the credit card, the social security number, and many other things in the past.
Maybe the mark is not so outwardly obvious and has an inner meaning?
Meanwhile the chip awaits us. Fear always strives for some kind of control. The chip has the potential for stricter control, but who will control it? And then, being afraid of the chip is the other side of the chip!
Posted 4/1/2008 12:05 AM (#4172 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: The Heart of Space
Hi all: The RFID, or as you guys say the "chip" was developed for a basically honest business purpose. Hmmmmm.....let me rephrase that...for a self serving business purpose. Then, as happens with most technology, people went wild with it. But, to back up a moment, how many of you routinely run programs like Spybot or Ad-Aware on your computers? The Internet is the biggest entity for gathering personal information in the world. Grant you, it didn't start out that way..but that is what it has become. If you don't run these programs (they are free, just Google) you should! You will be amazed at how many "tracking" cookies you might have and frightened by how many of them are "key loggers". Dottie..yes, I have read all and seen two of the books you mentioned, Animal Farm is an animated movie and 1984 is a people movie. What fascinated me is that in 1984, Big Brother was able to change in a moment who the "enemy" forces were that were engaged in combat. Sort of like....Afghanistan v Iraq??? But, what is even more frightening in 1984 was "Newspeak"; the language that WE now hear from CNN and FOX. Like for instance, "collateral damage" instead of "we killed civilians". These books do not "come to life". The ideas and concepts are what the author "sees" and my theory is that no one writes about what they do not, cannot, "see" as a reality. Look at Jules Verne...all of his fantastical conceptions are now true, working things. Most of HG Wells machinations are very real today, except the Time Machine...but that is coming. Trace, don't scare me even further! Two guys, LaHaye and Jenkins wrote a bunch of books (I think it is "the Left Behind" series) that feature "the mark"; all based on the writings of St. John known as the Apocalypse for RC's and Revelations for the rest of us. In their (LaHaye and Jenkins) books, the mark was a chip implanted by the forces of the anti-Christ......well now, why wouldn't it be! Many, if not the majority of us, all ready carry a modified RFID on us at all times...and that is contained in your cellphone, if it has a SIM. Because of that SIM, I can tell exactly where you are at any time, with some relatively inexpensive technology. Even if you turn it off, I can still tell. Only if you take the battery out will you have any privacy....but some SIMS have little lithium batteries, so I still could find you in a limited amount of time. Dottie, Doc and Trace.....haven't we willingly given up our right to privacy quite a while ago.....even though we may have done so without full knowledge and consent...but, didn't we do this to ourselves????? Among the many things I do, I am also a member of EFF, the Electronic Freedom Frontier, a bona-fide organization that is involved in keeping all forms of communication free from intervention by parties that seek to use electronic communications for purposes other than the free flow. Yes, we champion some unpopular causes, such as P2P file sharing...the RIAA does not like us since we want to trade music....but we also champion the right of privacy in our telecommunications...which George Bush has stepped all over, via the Patriot Act. But, check it out for yourselves, and decide. Regards, Marty and Telepathic Cats
Posted 4/1/2008 12:15 PM (#4176 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: NE Ohio
Very valid points....
I just don't want some chip in my skin. If I take off and move to an island, that would be my right to disappear. If I am carrying a chip, which could be used as a GPS monitoring system, then I have no privacy. Sometimes we just have the need not to be found and I would like to keep that right.
My PC does have all my info in it.... but i don't have to bring that with me. The option to leave everything behind is always there.
However, Marty makes good statements, which makes me feel like planet Earth is one huge prison after all..... There is one option I can thing of......OBE's are a way we can be truly free at least until we leave this realm.
Posted 4/28/2008 11:48 AM (#4804 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: Wrocester Mass
People are worried that at some point in the not so far future, this "chip" is going to start to be mandatory. Colleges are supposedly going to start requiring students to get them, in much the same way kids need their medical shots and vaccines to become a student. The government would like us to believe that it is only for identification purposes, and maybe medical history, but nothing more. In the movie Gattaca, instead of a chip, i believe it was the eyes that were scanned? (correct me if i'm wrong). In that movie, you could tell everything about a person from a hair... Does anyone see this "chip" as a large scale, real world issue soon to be coming to your television set? How are people going to react when government jobs, and next profesional jobs, and then maybe any job requires that you are a "tagged" citizen?
Posted 4/28/2008 5:12 PM (#4837 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: United Kingdom
In England, fortunately, we still only have 'fish and chips', though the fish are dying out through overfishing
I was not aware of this chip issue in the USA.
Must research more. In the meantime, those interested in the conflict between the state and the indvidual, and artistic reprresentations of such, could do worse than check out the 1960s British TV series called, The Prisoner; still now, ahead of its time, about a - possible - secret agent who resigns then is kidnapped to an island, from which he feels impelled to escape. Patrick McGoohan, the star, was asked to play James Bond, but refused, on 'moral grounds'; then again, there is 'The Castle' by Franz Kafka.
Easier to say than enact, but we are the prisoners of our own, imaginary, gaols (I know that may sound harsh to some)
Posted 4/28/2008 8:14 PM (#4851 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
NO i dont think that it is harsh to say at all! Some may find their fears, insecurities quite paralyzing. To be quite honest with you, where I live I would not be surprised if most of the people embrace this idea, due to their dependancy on people(government). Welfare, ssi, food stamps etc. These people who are abusing the help will indeed continue to be needy and helpless for their entire lives. I feel like it is the abusers that may bring a lot of destruction to our society. The more that citizens rely on the government, the more the government will be in our lives!!! I remember having a conversation with an older woman, and she stated that during the depression people would refuse to go on welfare, and that they would rather live like bums then exept welfare. THese people had pride in their work ethics, in their lives, and most importantly being self sufficiant. WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!!! Okay sorry I just got side tracked.... To get back to the point! I feel like we need to get back to the old days of farming, and neighborhood stores, not chains. Bigger is not better it involves more!!!
Posted 4/28/2008 9:21 PM (#4852 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
I do understand why some people would be attracted to this, fear showing itself through issues concerning security and safety. At one time I worked to search for missing children. Parents who have gone through stranger abductions would ask if our agency thought the chip would be a good security tool. Most of the opinions we had were held by the police and detectives who dealt with missing children with us and they did not think it was a good tool. Most of them thought it would be an invasion of our personal liberty too.
Posted 4/30/2008 1:29 PM (#4897 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
This chip is already destroying our basic human freedoms. It is in the same realm as a GPS system in a car...your whereabouts are instantly known. This chip is already in cell phones. This chip, so to speak is already in progress in terms of even our computer useage. Google "laundry detergent" and you not so coincidentally receive spam in your in box for free samples. Satellite images of your home on zillow.com yahoo and google. Legal governmental phone tapping. Makes one want to run around naked in the mountains
Posted 4/30/2008 4:23 PM (#4899 - in reply to #4897) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: United Kingdom
Yes Instincutal, in London we have something called an 'Oyster' card, which to get the best public transport prices you should buy ... but then using it tracks your movements, as do credit cards, and your examples, etc.
Posted 5/1/2008 12:14 PM (#4914 - in reply to #4899) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Hi Paul and All ( I am a poet and didn't even know it ).
Oyster card, I love that! Why is it called that?
Yes, certainly credit cards..again, and I may be eluding to my age here, but the situation causes me to want to stand high upon a mountain top eating a Peppermint Patti. That represented pure unbridled freedom. Anyone remember that? I know I make light of a serious situation - just my frame of mind anticipating the birth of Divine Ms. Jordyn.
(seriously, how long can 1 woman be 1 cm dilated-sheesh)
My husband, a technologically advanced nano-teched out of his ears research and development engineer - is doing great work and research on the effects of the internet on human privacy issues. We have good reason to be concerned. Having said that---life is what you make of it.
Have a blissed out day, ya'll!
Posted 5/1/2008 2:09 PM (#4916 - in reply to #4163) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: No I'm not impersonating a cat! I'm a laughing Owl
Dottie, I've heard of this too. And some companies are requiring that their employees have these chips implanted in their arms. They are using for highly secure access. Problem with this, I can see if someone is going to steal then they will need the chips in peoples bodies to steal from large corporations. No longer will it be a simple password, now they will need to get a hold of something inside of someone's anatomy!
I think this is absurd! I think we're all better off teaching one another how to live and survive in communities that put spirituality first. I fear that mainstream America is losing it's way. People are not cattle and even cattle deserve respect and good treatment. But you've seen the abuse that cattle have taken and the sickness' the beef has passed on to humanbeings. Now look at the aparent abuse people are taking right now. And now they want to add more stress and more problems into and onto lives that are already over taxed with stress, fear, lack of hope.....
You know the truckers who rallied on Capitol Hill held up signs that said, "Enough is enough!" I believe a lot of people would agree with this...
Posted 5/1/2008 2:47 PM (#4919 - in reply to #4914) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: United Kingdom
Well, Instinctual, why is it called that, I suspect is a very good question.
Your post was almost as obscure as mine are !
But, mountain tops are always good for me, though mints, I am not a great fan of ... may come to the rest of your post when I have unpacked it (except of course, your Bob Dylan reference ... well, if we are into 1960s free associations, I could also add that, not many people know, Paul Simon's song 'Blessed' was written in the chapel of St Anne's Church Soho, where a night shelter stood then, now a car park [I suggest you contact me before visiting there, pace Da Vinci code tourism] ... but in the church in which I am based, the ancient River Tyburn flows past, buried underground [ditto] ....).
Now how about that for a longer bracket than my previous one ?!!
Posted 5/1/2008 5:43 PM (#4934 - in reply to #4929) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: United Kingdom
Bob Dylan - "I'm a poet ... and I [?don't?] know it " - unless I am mistaken (others will know ... Marty ?) ... a very early Bob Dylan, first or second album, maybe Nashville Skyline perhaps ?
Cultural allusions abound. Scary really.
('So yesterday', a common phrase in common currency must surely come from the Beatles/Lennon-McCarrtney - 'Yesterday, all my troubles seems so far away', etc) ? Who knows? Only the Dark Lady knows, and she only speaks in our hearts.
Posted 5/1/2008 8:19 PM (#4937 - in reply to #4934) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Paul, I had a feeling you were referring to "I am a poet". I had no clue it was from a Dylan song. And as far as "So yesterday", funny term, isn't it? So very retro, then again, what isn't anymore? I would not be surprised in the least if it had something to do with that great tune. Again all, so sorry to sidetrack the subject. And to all who happen to read this, please feel free to call me Lori. Tonight, I will enjoy an icy dry martini..and I will raise my glass to all who visit this discussion board. Cheers!
Posted 5/2/2008 4:10 AM (#4941 - in reply to #4937) Subject: RE: "the chip"
Location: United Kingdom
Quite so Instinctual, I think we are so immersed in the diversity of cultures that references are everywhere and often hard to discern ... I have often now quoted on this site, dear old Ecclesiastes, who said that 'there is nothing new under the sun'.
History never changes, only its texture (Mao Tse Tung, I believe).
'Dry Martini, shaken not stirred' (James Bond)
Karma returns & recycles.
Back to the topic, but this might be stretching it a bit, population tracking is also evident in the New Testament story of the birth of Jesus.