The Philosophy of Time Travel
mruppert
Posted 1/24/2008 12:46 AM (#3522)
Subject: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Hi all:
     This post is due to an interesting discussion in another forum dealing with realtime physics and quantum mechanics. However, I did not want to have the forum go off on a tangent that would be hard to follow.
     For those of you who do not know "The Philosophy of Time Travel" by..........ta dah......Sister Roberta Sparrow, a Roman Catholic nun......it is a fictional "real" book used in a movie, just the same as the "Nine Gates" in a Johnny Depp flick.
      Yes, you can Google it, and you will see the book and the illustrations, and the text. However, it is still just a plot device in a movie.
       OR IS IT? Read what the text says, and then think about what is really being said. Look at the illustrations, and relate that to your knowledge of chakra points of energy. Contemplate the use of the term "artifacts".
        I think DocJ probably might be heads up on this, as she has a good foundation in the moving image as it relates to how we conceptualize spirituality. Anyone who knows and understands Suspiria is enlightened, and she does.
         My question is, although the book explains the philosophy of time travel, it does not explain the mechanics of it, and I am wondering, is this a valid topic that we can discuss, both the philosophy and the mechanics????

Luminero Sendosa,
Marty y me gatas, Suertela, Poppycabeza, y Sissyhija
         
     
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Supernatural3
Posted 1/24/2008 8:22 AM (#3524 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Ahhhh, Roberta Sparrow, I remember her book about time travel in the movie best known as Donnie Darko. That was really a fantastic movie. All about time, and choices. Roberta talks about actually seeing the tunnel of time before hand, coming out of the belly. Like a connected intelligence that actually pulls you, can even convince you... but you do not HAVE to follow it.

I think when we do not have a body, time travel is only a matter of thought. We think it, there for it exists. With out thought, it does not exist (to the individual). But then again, if we all are one, then if you think it, then i think it. We all work together. I think all time exists at once and we can indeed experience any time we want. A classic example is Past Life Regressions using hypnosis. My gosh, the things my clients experience while under is extreme real to them. It also seems to always fit to their personality, so it makes me think, perhaps we don't all blend into one later and get to keep our personalities (or parts of them). Which i am creating a new thread, because that got me thinking. "Keeping our personality-afterwards" will be the title.

Susperia, HA.... that movie scared the crap out of me as a kid. I didn't understand much about it. But then i watched it again a couple years ago and while i thought then it was a little cheesy, i still thought, it was very creative and spiritual. A little naughty too. Perfect.

Anyway, see ya yesterday again.


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cause
Posted 1/25/2008 4:16 PM (#3540 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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It is interesting how parts of books of fiction sometimes find there way into metaphysical discussion to be considered factual. This is of course not isolated to one book as are our imaginations are not isolated from our metaphysical understanding of the world. Enough on this. . .

I have read books on the physical realities of time travel. Most of the ideas involve situations of high gravity. I also find it extremely interesting that one of the most promising purely scientific ideas about time travel involves natural phenomena! In other words, there may be a natural time travel 'machine' already in operation in our universe! Something many sage and holy souls of religious and spiritual thought would only say "we already knew this!"

The physics of how this works is legitimate to my admittedly limited proficiency of the understanding of physics, if you allow for one theoretical interstellar object. You should remember, if you doubt here, that black holes were theoretical objects just a short few decades ago. . .

This also is just one version of time travel in physics, there are other ideas on how time travel might work!

See you tomorrow (possibly in the next few minutes of my time-line),

cause
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mruppert
Posted 1/25/2008 11:49 PM (#3541 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Hi Doc and Cause; et al.....
     Yeah, but, the fictional book in "The Ninth Gate" reworked another book, drawings and all, to fit the plot. "The Club Dumas" has all the engravings, without the variations. It does mention LCF v AT engravings, but this is all secondary to the main plot, which dealt with manuscripts by Alexandre Dumas, and "The Three Muskateers" (even though there are four and they didn't carry muskets). This movie makes a fictional book out of a book of fiction.
      As DocJ has correctly identified, the "Philosophy of Time Travel" comes from the flic "Donnie Darko." One guy, I think it was Richard Kelly, I dunno for sure, wrote and directed the movie. IMDB will confirm or correct me on this. However, one guy created a fictional book to do what? Advance his plot line? He could have done this without the intricacy that went into this plot device.
       So, I gotta ask myself, what was he thinking? This movie is very disturbing on many levels. There is a rabbit. The rabbit is evil. We associate rabbits with Easter, a time of joy.There is a crazy woman. She is an ex-nun. She knows the book, because she wrote it. There is the teacher, who has the book, and reveals it to Donnie. Be that as it may, I am not so much interested in why this movie is probably a great movie; I am more interested in what was said in the book, of which we only see parts (as there are only parts that we are meant to see). The "tunnel" and "artifacts"......interesting concepts!!!!!!
     Cause, where am I in the "sense" of time when I speak with my RA, who is five time zones away from me, and we say the same thing at precisely the same moment?
      At abzero, when no atomic motion occurs, where is time?

P&L,
Marty and Timed Cats, they know when it is time to eat!
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Supernatural3
Posted 1/26/2008 9:59 AM (#3542 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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I love it when movies, books, etc. written so well that it sparks the "what if" and "Could be real" thoughts. Maybe the truth is so close, but the author couldn't prove anything, so he had no choice but to label it "Fiction".

Like in the movie "What Dreams May come", written by Richard Matheson (1998). I quoted that movie in my own dissertation, because in my opinion, I feel that with out proof, they had to say fiction. But it's exactly what I think our eternal life is like. This doesn't have much to do with time travel, but they can do all kinds of things in that movie, with mind and thought. So it does fit in with a squeeze, because he could just "think" to run faster, etc. So it only took him seconds to get somewhere it would have taken a lot more time.
They use the concept of heaven and hell in this movie, thinking it's all a frame of mind to which the perciever thinks he deserves, according to their belief system, but can always change, eventually(which was proven in the movie). Yes, a movie, but dead accurate to a belief system learned over a lifetime of spiritual events that I witnessed personally.

Why are some movies labeled Fiction? Because it cannot be proven. That is all. Neither can Metaphysics.... because Metaphysics is beyond our physical (scientific range) of measuring. That is why the Meta comes in.... above range of normal physics. Yet, we all swear by this stuff. I know i do.... Metaphysics is my life.

Lets take the movie The Craft. The Author sure did their homework on that one. I was in shock with how accurate some of the things done were in that movie. And yes, some people take it to a dark place and cannot handle it. Sure they had to add a little more bells and whistles, but it was a pretty great movie.

Roberta Sparrow really did write the book "Philosophy of Time Travel" (in real life), but in the movie she plays the old lady who wonders into traffic, knowing it's not her time to die. She takes a lot of chances, because she already knows..... get it? The movie is all about making different choices, for better outcome. The evil bunny, doesn't stay evil.... only looked evil, but it was the halloween costume from another school student, who accidentally kills Donnie's girlfriend, so Donnie shoots the guy right in the eye. Donnie then had to make a choice (or was given the chance) to correct the other kids lives. Donnie chose not to get out of bed, like he was directed to, but to die instead, so that the kid in the rabbit suit, and his girlfriend could live again. He chose to save two lives, in exchange for his own, which would have been doomed anyway for the death of the kid whom he shot, for accidentally killing his girl.
The movie is brilliant, yet strange if you do not understand that we make these choices that effects everyone around us. They have no choice but to label it fiction, because there is no proof to back it.

But where is the proof to back our own visions? While we know it's real.... like seeing a ghost, we cannot prove it to Joe down the street to save our lives. Maybe it's not Joe's time to be spiritual. We all have a roll to play.... so lets play. We are ALL just a part of a HUGE movie. And we are ALL the star's. Give yourself a standing ovation.... you are "here" and doing well.

Blessings~
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mruppert
Posted 1/27/2008 9:35 PM (#3543 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Hi all:
     DoctorJ makes a good point.
     We really have to seriously look at the writers of the past and measure how many of their visions are true today.
      Just as painters paint, writers write what they "see" and in a holographic concept of the universe, must therefore be true.
      Time travel is, indeed, possible and most likely has all ready been done. Will we someday have Time Travel  stations, airports, terminals.....most likely not...but will time travel be proven? The answer is YES!

Peace n' Funstuff,
Marty and Beamed Up Cats, Luckylee, Poppyhead and the SissyGirl.
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John W. Kelly
Posted 1/29/2008 1:59 AM (#3565 - in reply to #3543)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel


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mruppert - 2008-01-27 9:35 PM

...but will time travel be proven? The answer is YES!

In a limited way, it has already been done. The best however, is yet to come.
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mruppert
Posted 1/30/2008 3:05 AM (#3573 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Hi John....curious...why do you say that? Not the cesium chamber experiments?

Regards,
Marty and Cats, past and present but maybe, no future.
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John W. Kelly
Posted 1/30/2008 11:25 AM (#3581 - in reply to #3573)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel


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mruppert - 2008-01-30 3:05 AM

Hi John....curious...why do you say that? Not the cesium chamber experiments?


The difference of time as shown in the Pound-Rebka experiment (I believe in the early 60's) that used two clocks at different altitudes and found that they did indeed show two different times. If nothing else, we show the effects of time dilation. Like I said, its very limited (nanoseconds).
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ongoingbattle
Posted 1/30/2008 12:14 PM (#3585 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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This Forum is going to be the end of me! Time is progressing towards my test at 5, but my studying isn't lol! Alright, time travel. I know for a fact that it is possible. Does anyone feel like time traveling tonight? Alright, here's what you have to do. Go outside tonight after the sun sets, hopefully there aren't to many clouds out. Now look up in the sky at the stars. You have just time traveled. Although you didn' not physically jump to a different time, you were able to see into the past. There are millions of stars in our sky. Many of them became red giants, white dwarves, or even black holes long ago, and have since died and ceased to exist. But these stars are so far away that the end of their light waves have not reached Earth yet, so you still see them in the sky.
Time is completely referential. In fact any mode of measurement is completely referential. It is really tough to truly understand this concept. In Hitchiker's Guide to the galaxy, there is a society that believes the whole universe was sneezed out by the Great Green Arkleseizure. They are waiting for the Great White Handkerchief to come wipe them away. Now however silly this may seem, If you can at least in some basic way understand how this is possible, then you get it. Size is referential; the whole universe could be some mold on a piece of bread, in a society where our universe is the size of one of their atoms, and the time of our whole existance is a blink of an eye to them.
The whole atomic clock thing is true, but scientists were not able to precisely say if all or how much of the time difference was due to gravity effects, or velocity effects. but it is theorized it has more to do with absolute velocity and that time stops at the speed of light. It has also been proved that light can be bent in a way that allows us to see into the past, but it is still very limited. Nothing really ever ends, even one of my breaths will continue changing the universe millenias after it has left my lungs. The effects are so negligible that they are not even noticeable a few seconds later, but who really knows if that breath changed everyting? It's the butterfly effect. The light from the stars is strong enough to get here. What happens when we can move so fast and bend light so much that we can catch up to the first light the universe ever radiated? Moving into the pas? i don't know, but seeing into it? definately
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mruppert
Posted 2/2/2008 1:44 AM (#3604 - in reply to #3522)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Hi Ongobat:
     You have written a very significant thing! Oh, and I do enjoy Doug Adams. The point is Mr. Adams has written what he "sees" and it is the future. Whether he saw it clearly or not, is not the question..it is only that he has had a glimpse of it, that is the answer.
      I am a historian by training, and I am always mindful of the words that Mrs. Atwood wrote in a novel:
      "We may call Eurydice forth from the world of the dead, but we cannot make her answer. And, when we turn to look at her, we glimpse her only for a moment before she slips from our grasp and flees. AS ALL HISTORIANS KNOW, the past is a great darkness and filled with echoes. Voices may reach us from it but what they say to us is imbued with the obscurity of the matrix out of which they come and, try as we may, we cannot always decipher them precisely in the clearer light of our own day"
       This quote says so much about quantum mechanics, physics, mysticism, spirituality, time travel and history, that I cannot explain it all.
       But, just something to ponder, as I do as a historian, hence my emphasis on the words.

Peace and Love to all,
Marty and Fortuna Non Omnibus Aeque Cats: Luck, Pop, and Siss
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Katrina
Posted 7/30/2009 8:42 PM (#16288 - in reply to #3604)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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*bump*
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Paul Joseph
Posted 7/31/2009 4:48 AM (#16296 - in reply to #16288)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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There's that bump again ... our UK TV has an amazing TV programme called, Dr. Who, which, if you can catch it over there, is very good on this ... the most recent, with David Tennant (written by Russell T. Davies), especially so.

I cannot remember without reading every line from the above, but I think somewhere there is the suggestion that our astral selves can indeed travel thus; though care needs to be exercised.
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mruppert
Posted 8/2/2009 1:38 AM (#16343 - in reply to #16296)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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Yes, Pablo, your memory is very good. In reference to what you said, it seems that it must be an astral projective method. It cannot be physically linear, on that point I believe Einstein was right.
I have never taken exception wth him on that point....when he couldn't tell me how gravity works in relation to time is where I abandoned him like a sinking ship....he is wrong! The holographic guys are right! But, that poses problems for his linearity.
EXCITING!

P&L,
Marty and Sleepy Cats, Lucksnore, Poppsnooze, and Sisszzzzzzzz's
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Paul Joseph
Posted 8/2/2009 4:45 PM (#16355 - in reply to #16343)
Subject: RE: The Philosophy of Time Travel



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The only true philosophy is the love of goodness
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