Am New and need some advice
jntrd
Posted 12/31/2007 8:19 PM (#3353)
Subject: Am New and need some advice



I am a recovered alcoholic who received an act of God to relieve my alocholism of which i was afflicted to a tortuous level amd am now in my 7th year of sobriety and a regular member of AA.

I have been interested in philosophy, religion and martial arts for some cosiderable time, I would class myself as a Christian, have accepted the bible as Gods will for me although I find it difficult to belong to a denomination due to the hypocracy of the higher echelons of each and all.

I have published a book 'Successful Living', although it is far from being a best seller lol.

I do not wish to join any cult or be a 'new age traveller' healer, or other kind of mystic, but I do wish to understand spiritual principles to a much higher or deeper level. Can someone please enlighten me further to the course details which will enable me to do this, other than what is printed on the site.

Many thanks

Marcus Reid
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Supernatural3
Posted 12/31/2007 9:49 PM (#3355 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
I will give my opinion, as a UMS graduate. Since I have pretty much taken all the courses i can give what I got out of them.

The general idea that I gathered is that UMS does not stand for any specific religion, but the courses give plenty of education on many religions, so you can understand a variety and discover the area's at which you can relate too. They would never say what is right or wrong to any individual because it's different for each and everyone of us. As far as being a cult... NAW, it's too FREE to claim that.

As far as Metaphysics: It's the study of Ultimate Reality. This can be different, pending the viewer, or the one who is learning while experiencing their current moment. I am personally still undecided on any 'specific' religion, and I am fine with that. I have my own religion I call 'Jillism', which is a mixture of many. In my own religion I have found my own direct connection to my higher self, or what some would call God. I also found that I am much more accepting of many different religions, because none of them are perfect, nor none of them are totally wrong. They each have their extreme valid good points, and their corrupted man made area's. It's choosing a blend that works for me.

I was raised Christian-Protestant, which then changed to Non-denominational. But it still did not fit with my own experiences that were extremely spiritual. I am not against it, just not fully gullible either. I couldn't deal with everything the Church was trying to say.... It didn't fit with my own beliefs, experiences and feelings. I wasn't against it, just felt always out of place, or lacking truth. I know one thing... I don't need to be born again, i got it right the first time. There is no way I was born a sinner.... My infant morals were not learned at that point. Some of these things are just off the wall when it comes to some religions with a broken overkill switch.

I don't feel lost anymore, at all. Because of UMS i know my way and I listen to my own feelings and trust them. It's enlightened me. I still have God very much in my life, and a beautiful wonderful family. I met my husband, due to me placing spiritual on my dating profile (Yep, i am married to a man i met on the internet) We lived only a few blocks away and here, we knew of each other for a long time. FATE has a way with making everything work out. I learned that I cannot fail.... so i might as well look on the bright side, because i choose my feelings and emotions on a daily basis.

If there is anything UMS can do, It would help you with peace of mind, while you come up with your own solutions, feelings and truths that are custom built~

Blessings~

Oh yeah.... congratulations on choosing to control what alcohol did to you. You did it, you chose to take control. It's truly that way with everything in this life. It's all a choice.... heaven, hell, love, hate. Choose wisely and you will succeed in happiness.
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jntrd
Posted 1/1/2008 2:35 PM (#3357 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


Many many thanks for your indepth reply Jill, congratulations on meeting your soul mate through the power of cyberspace.

I wish I could explain to you that I did not choose to control my alcohol consumption, believe you me, I tried to choose to control it so many times you cannot imagine;- its a bit like asking someone with diarhoea to control their excretion rate! I had a supernatural experience which took my obsession and dependancy away instantly As a result of this experience, I started my journey of self-discovery and my life has turned around. Carl Jung explained it like this spiritus contra spiritum (I think thats the right Latin lol) spiritus being the latin for alcohol and also for a very deep religous experience.

Carl Jung was unable to help an alcoholic American who spent 12 months living with him under his guidance and deep regressive therapy along with all known therapy at that time. On his return to the USA he got drunk on the return voyage!

If will power alone could have helped, hypnotherapy would be the cure for all alcholics! For people like me, only a 'miracle' spiritual or religious experience was the answer.

You have been so kind

May God bless you too

Marcus

Edited by jntrd 1/1/2008 2:50 PM
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jntrd
Posted 1/1/2008 3:10 PM (#3358 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


Have managed to dig out a copy of the letter from Carl Jung to the AA co-founder Bill W, regarding the visit from Rowland H, the alcoholic who in desperatrion to stop drinking paid to go to Europe to see the worlds leading psychologist, spent 12 months with him and got drunk on the return voyage

Dear Mr. W.
Your letter has been very welcome indeed.

I had no news from Rowland H. anymore and often wondered what has been his fate. Our conversation which he has adequately reported to you had an aspect of which he did not know. The reason that I could not tell him everything was that those days I had to be exceedingly careful of what I said. I had found out that I was misunderstood in every possible way. Thus I was very careful when I talked to Rowland H. But what I really thought about was the result of many experiences with men of his kind.

His craving for alcohol was the equivalent, on a low level, of the spiritual thirst of our being for wholeness, expressed in medieval language: the union with God.*

How could one formulate such an insight in a language that is not misunderstood in our days?

The only right and legitimate way to such an experience is that it happens to you in reality and it can only happen to you when you walk on a path which leads you to higher understanding. You might be led to that goal by an act of grace or through a personal and honest contact with friends, or through a higher education of the mind beyond the confines of mere rationalism. I see from your letter that Rowland H. has chosen the second way, which was, under the circumstances, obviously the best one.

I am strongly convinced that the evil principle prevailing in this world leads the unrecognized spiritual need into perdition, if it is not counteracted either by real religious insight or by the protective wall of human community. An ordinary man, not protected by an action from above and isolated in society, cannot resist the power of evil, which is called very aptly the Devil. But the use of such words arouses so many mistakes that one can only keep aloof from them as much as possible.

These are the reasons why I could not give a full and sufficient explanation to Rowland H., but I am risking it with you because I conclude from your very decent and honest letter that you have acquired a point of view above the misleading platitudes one usually hears about alcoholism.

You see, "alcohol" in Latin is "spiritus" and you use the same word for the highest religious experience as well as for the most depraving poison. The helpful formula therefore is: spiritus contra spiritum.

Thanking you again for your kind letter

I remain

Yours sincerely

C. G. Jung*

"As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God." (Psalms 42:1)
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Supernatural3
Posted 1/2/2008 9:44 PM (#3363 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
Thank you for sharing that.
I feel Jung was a great man. It's a shame that Freud (his teacher) was a little less open minded. Both still made history with their wisdom.

I hope you feel very welcome here.
Blessings~
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mruppert
Posted 1/4/2008 4:19 AM (#3372 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



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Hello Marcus and DocJ:
     Well, historically it is correct. However, both Jung and James were in a bit of contention on this, and the Jamesian approach won favor with Bill Wilson, as exemplified by the footnote in Chap 1 of the Big Book, or maybe the Blue Book...uh, I don't remember what it is called.....that refers readers to an appendix...where William James was attributed as saying that the spiritual awakening was of an "educational variety". Somewhere in the text of the Big/Blue book there is a reference to the 'varieties of religious experience' as formulated by James. Hence, Jung's ideas had fallen  in disfavor with the Oxford Group, the forebears of the AA Group, but the father of it's existence....please refer to the "Twelve Traditions".
     Jung's failure with Rowland H. is memorialized and vindicated in a novel by Robertson Davies, one of a trilogy, I think the one is called "The Manticore"....yes, I am sure of that.....of a trilogy called "The Deptford Trilogy" which consists of "The Fifth Business" "The Manticore" and "The World of Wonders".
     In "The Manticore" the severely alcoholic David Staunton goes to the clinic run by Jung....and is cured....but after a long journey of spiritual DISCOVERY!
     Unfortunately, to truly know the spiritual significance of his awakening, you have to read all three books, and most are not willing to do that.

Peace and Love,
Marty and Freudian Cats, Luckylee, Poppyhead, SissyGirl Frauleins Katzen

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cause
Posted 1/4/2008 9:42 PM (#3377 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



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Location: Bellingham
Marcus,

You will find no quick easy answer to deeper questions here, as there is none available anywhere to my knowledge, nether are true answers out of reach. I too consider myself Christian if you mean this by ". . . class yourself . . . " I believe 'the' answers are found in him. I believe one can live a full and rich life without looking for deeper metaphysical answers, or spiritual pilgrimages, although this is foreign to me. I am driven to know. The choice to be spiritual, or not, is yours, as is your choice to be a spiritual seeker. I am familiar with 12 step programs, they are a part of the curriculum at UMS as I am sure you will be happy to know. That you have heard of the 'spiritual awakening' that the steps speak of means that you are probably seeking spiritually.

I sense an underlying desire to know more about this school. Although you have not stated such a desire. Many would, have and I'm sure will give there opinions about your seeking and the classes available from UMS. I can say that in the material I have received is informative and is a good resource, an impressive body of work. One could find a help in spiritual seeking in the coursework. Whatever your do, and your Illumination, as you have probably heard before, is up to You and G_d. I cannot myself give you an 'answer' that is universal and true to You about spirit. For one, I am not Qualified. I have just started and am not yet a qualified spiritual minister or Doctor of Divinity. I hope I have not offended in my giving this advice. consider it instead the words of someone who also wishes to understand spiritual principles and has not yet been wholly disappointed.

The next thing I am going to say is where many people turn away. We are living in a 'new age' this represents a explosion of metaphysical thought; spiritual and philosophical, as well as in other fields. In approaching these thoughts we all should think critically, with an open mind, and with decernment keep It is my belief that this is not one and the same with what we call 'end times' and we can discuss Christian matters more fully in a more private manner, by you PM'ing me (the little button below this message) where others who do not share our views will not need to voice there grievances over every little belief or disagreement, I hope there are none, of ours. Please do!

Peace be with you,

cause
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onespirit
Posted 1/4/2008 10:26 PM (#3378 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


I am a new student just one month in, and its NOT a cult of any kind, Its about exploring metaphysics. Its about exploring you as well. I think if you arfe drawn to this then go for it, I love it so far, and am anticipating the journey as it unfolds.
Good Luck and many blessings to you.'
carla
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jntrd
Posted 1/7/2008 1:43 PM (#3405 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


many thanks for the awesome replies
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jntrd
Posted 1/7/2008 1:43 PM (#3406 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


many thanks for the awesome replies
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mruppert
Posted 1/8/2008 2:33 AM (#3408 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



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Hi to all:
Cause:
""The next thing I am going to say is where many people turn away. We areliving in a 'new age' this represents a explosion of metaphysicalthought; spiritual and philosophical, as well as in other fields. Inapproaching these thoughts we all should think critically, with an openmind, and with decernment keep It is my belief that this is not one andthe same with what we call 'end times' and we can discuss Christianmatters more fully in a more private manner,  <snipped text> where others who do not share our views will not need to voice theregrievances over every little belief or disagreement, I hope there arenone, of ours.""
    Please, don't take this private...as I see much benefit in a discussion like this. Maybe a forum, and then people can take it or leave it as they care to, and no one will be offended or compelled to object as inappropriate content.
     What might be discussed is very appropo to studies here, at UMS and in seminaries and univeristies throughout.
Peace,
Marty and victorious cats
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aceraven
Posted 3/20/2008 10:31 AM (#3892 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


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Howdy Folks,
Yes Marty, start that new thread. From my research I have found Jesus as a total myth to finishing his life in India.
My father always used Frank Yerby's "Judas my brother" as his proof that Jesus was a phoney. I tried reading the book but
it was to heavy reading for me. Have you read it? And Marcus, I want to check your book out. Can I assume it will have your name Marcus Reid as the author? Now your on the wagon for 7 years, very good & keep it up, it not easy, I lost my best friend to that disease. After some research into this field, I hope you write a new book "Successful Believing" or something. Well Marcus, I will read your book to learn about sucessful Living. Keep up the search, you will love this quest for the truth.
Ace Raven
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mruppert
Posted 3/21/2008 12:49 AM (#3903 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice



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Hello Ace-of-Rave:
     The threads get all involved, so everyone has to read carefully who has said what.
      It was Cause who wanted to start a thread on "Christianity" as a topic, and I felt that it should be a public forum. It is a major force in concepts of "spirituality" and, for me, quite significant...since I am Roman Catholic, Rosicrucian, and soon to be a student of more arcane forms of belief. YET, I don't see anything which contradicts one set of beliefs from another that I hold. I only see a concept of "oneness", moreso than ever before.
     Rave, since you are new, enjoy and embrace the myriad ideas and concepts you find here, and know that something drew you here.....whatever it is I cannot tell you, for I don't quite know myself.
     What I can say is that you will start to question the most inner depths of yourself, and perhaps draw some conclusions. Hopefully, the insights will change your life and make you truly
"see"....with knowledge and wisdom.
Peace Profound,
Marty, and my cats Luckylee, Poppyhead and SissyGirl....two are avatars, only one is my familiar.
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aceraven
Posted 3/21/2008 6:58 PM (#3939 - in reply to #3353)
Subject: RE: Am New and need some advice


Member

Posts: 28
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Thanks Omar, I will try to pay attention & not make that mistake again, miss you at darkmoon....
ace-o-rave
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