Posted 10/10/2007 1:18 PM (#2664) Subject: Is Humanity Flawed?
So I have been hearing in various places this idea and I keep getting stuck on it. I have thought for a long time that everything precisely as it should be, perfect chaos, so to speak? The cosmos has been created by itself and made manifest in its infinite possibilities, with the purpose of making known the unknown which is infinite. But I also keep running into the idea that humanity is flawed, that we should be farther along on our evolutionary path. That we are STUCK. I always thought that there was a purpose to the dual mind so to speak. Even if part of that purpose is to eventually transcend duality, that there is a purpose, maybe to truly understand unity we must experience duality? Maybe I am just getting stuck on the words, flaw and stuck. We seem to be innately inspired to seek unity and so it seems the search is ingrained in us, but does that mean that the human experience is flawed? Or is this duality part of the process? Have we really become stuck? Is this possible? Only one place have I seen a perspective that explains this (realizing, of course, that there are millions of writings that I have not had the pleasure of reading as well as people that I have not spoken to....yet) and that is Carl Johan Calleman's book the Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Counsciousness. He explains that there are pulses coming from the galactic center that spur on our evolution and so while we seek, we really are only capable of evolving to a certain place within a certain pulse or time period. The purpose being, I suppose to allow the process to become fully realized before moving on to the next stage. (I speak in general here, realizing that there have been the few who have truly transcended the dual mind.) The Mayan Calendar is coming to a close, we are in the final stages and as we come to the "end of time" we will move onto our next dimensional experience, whatever that may look like. This explanations seems to contradict the idea that humanity is stuck. I have just been contemplating this lately and would love to hear others perceptions on this. I am a new student at UMS and am really loving it. So glad to have this forum as a way to connect with others that are pondering similar thoughts.
Posted 10/10/2007 3:06 PM (#2666 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
I'm also a newer student and am really trying to take advantage of the forum and put energy into it to get it going.
It's interesting to think humanity could be flawed and the thoughts I have about it are along the lines that everyone is extremely caught up and will not allow for change to occur. Though I feel it's impossible to fail because failure is basically a construct of the mind, and the universe, i feel, just doesnt work like that, it's beyond a possibility of failure because it is non dualistic. What makes me wonder is, how are we going to reach completion in 2012 when everyone still has so much work to do! hahaha. I'm not entirely clear as to how we will be reaching completion, but pretty curious to see.
I believe with enough focus coming from your part your experience will deeply answer your question and you will increase your foundation with solid, deep understanding.
Posted 10/10/2007 10:18 PM (#2672 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
Location: NE Ohio
I have to agree with Danny, that we cannot fail, it's impossible. I truly feel that the Mayans just had to quit at some point on compulsive behavior. They may make some good points, but most likely didn't understand or comprehend life being eternal. It's hard to think of eternal life as God, when you are in a physical body. I would most likely be confused too, but.... I am not now. It's all good. Even if I die tomorrow, or the Earth Blows up in 2012, we all still go on and perhaps use a different place to experience on. But it sure does make ya think. I love deep thinking... Thank you for posting.
Love and Light
Posted 10/11/2007 12:33 PM (#2673 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
Enough of us just have to 'wake up' and realize that we may only be one drop of water, but together we make an ocean!
The word flawed to me implies original sin which is a religious teaching which I don't personally resonate with.
Why would you ever try to achieve enlightenment or peace or anything if you thought you were damned from the beginning of it all?
We are all very powerful creators and only need to focus on what we truly desire to create. When enough of us do that, the mass consciousness will change. It does take a handful of courageous souls at first to get out of the mainstream mud, so to speak.
Posted 10/12/2007 12:27 AM (#2674 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
Location: The Heart of Space
Hi all: If I may, and my thoughts are based on the learning I have, to say that "we" will "evolve" into a higher order is to miss-think what may happen. Evolution is simply a process, one which involves response to environment. It has never been threatening to those that are religious, unless one is a "creationist." If you agree that a certain book is a timeline..then you will, by belief, disagree with me. Even though a massive preponderance of evidence denies the timeline, you may still believe that the world is only thousands of years old and that "God" created everything within that timeframe. To those that believe this, may you be blessed and happy in your belief. But, our original poster spoke of humanity...humanity of a spiritual worth. A spiritual worth that allows us, above all other primates, to think and conceive something which is beyond us, perhaps to quest for the truth of our existence. The process by which we have gotten to the point that we are is unimportant, and that is why I don't understand why religious people quibble over Darwin; the fact is that we are at a the point that we are and we have many paths towards "enlightenment." I have found that one can travel many roads, and meet many dead-ends, some unfruitful, and some disasterous. But there is one true road that leads to what I believe we all want....and that road becomes crystal clear by study, whether it is here, at UMS or private, or through some other means. All of a sudden, the path becomes clear and shining....Sendero Luminosa! My quest to find the shining path will probably not end before the mortal vessel that is me expires. But, then again, won't I be just continuing the journey that I originally set out upon. Peace and L-U-V, Marty
Posted 10/12/2007 7:47 PM (#2682 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
Yes, I agree with you all. I do not feel in the long run that we cannot succeed. That is life as a whole. I do believe evolution is infinite, meaning neverending. I do not hold that life as I know it will continue into infinity, but the life that I am in God will continue. What I have heard is that things were set in motion and that somehow we "forgot" what we/God intended and that we now need to remember. The way it is worded as, forgot, got stuck, etc. to me has the connotation that is was a mistake which does not jive with the idea of perfection. So I think maybe I just have gotten stuck on the words, the idea that megalomania is keeping us from realizing our true potential is just part of the process. How does that sound? Also, as a side note, the 2012 calendar does not speak of humanity or life or the world ending. That is not what the calendar is about at all. It is a diagram of this process of evolution that encompasses the process of The All. 2012 is just a place where a certain phase of evolution may come to completion but it is not the end of anything, just the ending of one phase and the beginning of another.
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses, I really appreciate being able to through ideas out and hear how it is reflected by others back to me. Blessings on your weekend :-) Shantina
Posted 10/15/2007 12:50 AM (#2688 - in reply to #2664) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
Location: The Heart of Space
Hi Shantina et al; It is just a bunch of numbers, 2012 means absolutley nothing in a divinatory sense, or any other sense, as it (in view of time) is a contrived figure. Look at many other calanders and what year it is. Five thousand something in Chinese and Hebrew. "WE" worried about 1999 changing into 2000 because of computers. No planes fell out of the sky and no trucks didn't get where they were supposed to go. We also thought about it as the change in millenia, but it wasn't. 2001 is when the millenia changed. Don't believe things that you see and hear just because everyone else does. Seek and find the truth. With that truth, you will have the best defense against fear, as you will have no fear....
Posted 10/15/2007 2:17 PM (#2691 - in reply to #2688) Subject: RE: Is Humanity Flawed?
I am going to get sidetracked by the 2012 topic. Maybe I should start a new string but I will continue here for now. I feel like I got some good feedback in regards to my original question, thank you again everyone :-) I am not sure where you are getting the idea that I think 2012 is going to be some sort of catastrophe. I don't think I have given voice to that sentiment. Have I? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning? I realize 2012 is just a number. It doesn't even talk about the actual numbers 2 0 1 2 in the Mayan calendar. That date is a date that has been translated to our time numbers by scholars and scientists, philosophers etc from the code that is the Mayan calendar. Do you personally feel that there is any relevance for us in astrology? I do. I feel that the universe is a web of sorts, with flows and movements of currents, waves, whatever you want to call it that we all are affected by. What we do has a reverberation, as the tides move so do we. From that standpoint the 2012 date is a time when certain planets will be in a certain type of pattern that some believe does have significance for us. Just as the moon's cycles affect us. And in astrology there are certain patterns that can have more dramatic affects on us than others. The Mayans predicted that the earth, our sun, and the center of our galaxy would be in alignment at a certain place in time. That place has been deciphered as 2012. This happens only every 26,000 years so it seems to me like it may have some fairly significant effects on us. But I do not hold that these effects will be painful or catsrophic. I do not feel that I can predict what it will mean for me or anyone else, but it does have some significance for me. A serious study of this topic will point to a parallel between the Mayan calendar ideas and the ideas put forth by quantam physicists and string theory. As I enjoy learning more about quantam physics I also enjoy reading about the Mayan calendar. It seems significant to me that a culture would be able to predict an alignment that only happens once every 26,000 years when they lacked certain technologies that are available to us today; for them to "see" the galaxy and track planets and suns would have been with the naked eye, but it is what they saw with the "inner eye" that seems to matter to me. Anyway, just my thoughts on the 2012 bit.
Thanks for "listening" :-)