Posted 9/16/2007 3:49 AM (#2591) Subject: Credentials and Legalities
Location: Maximum Overdrive
Hello all: Let me be to the point .....I saw nothing wrong in confirming to a friend (in another post) to charge for services that are rendered. That person happens to be in the UK. Though the US derives many of it's legal principals from the "Common Law" which prevails in the UK, our "Law of Torts" (which derives from the UK common law) has risen to new and unimaginable heights of incredulity. Medical doctors are sued for anything, everything and nothing. They carry onerous burdens of liability insurance, since juries tend to always side against the doctor. ( I am not saying that doctors are always right, far from it). However, the ease with which one can resort to a court and collect money is much like going to an ATM machine, and withdrawing tremendous amounts of cash. Are holistic healers, hypnotherapists, acupuncturists, and otherwise general well being counselers immune from this? No, they are not! Are even ministers, priests, rebbes and mullahs immmune from this? The answer, is again, no. The key to all of this is accepting money for services performed. That is a contract. A "good" for a service. The person might pay you in chickens or a Cadillac Escalade. If you accept the chickens or Escalade with the promise of service, then there is a contract. You then must fulfill the contract. You have to be VERY careful in what you say the service is that you will perform. Credentials get you no where, as an opposing attorney will bring in thousands of equally or better credentialed people to say just how wrong you were. The ideal situation is to practice whatever it is that you do for free; and if the client wishes to remunerate you, then accept it (as it is a gift). There is no contract, and no legal basis for suit. As an alternative, if a medically trained doctor from Johns Hopkins University or Harvard University screws up, he or she has a better chance of defending him or herself than a medically trained doctor from Che Gueverra University (Cuba) or Patrice Lamumba University (St. Petersburg, Russia) does. Why? JUST BECAUSE! It's all in the name, baby, all in the name!!!!!
Posted 9/16/2007 11:22 AM (#2592 - in reply to #2591) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
Location: NE Ohio
Unfortunately, as a Hynotherapist, I cannot pay for my office set up and rent, if offering for free. Neither can doing anything else on that matter. It's fine to offer for free services if you want to do things to help people on the side or as a hobby, as I do with Paranormal Investigations, but when it's your entire career, free is not an option. I need to raise my own family too.
These services we offer are legitimate. We shouldn't have to give our life away, for free. That isn't the answer either.
I have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars for my accredited, as well as non accredited education. Hypnotherapy is a government accredited and recognized service in the states and I am legal to perform my business for money on vocational and advocational services. Anything else, all i need is a signed referral form from either a psychotherapist, or a medical doctor, which will take the heat off me, if i treat a patient with physiological or psychological problems in conjunction with the health care professional. I am also involved with a union, and pay for insurance, which backs my practice.
I do not know the laws of UK, just the states. I recommend getting to know the laws on what we can or cannot do in our own area. Some things just might have to be re-worded into a non-medical or non-psychological term. I.e. I cannot put 'Relationship Counseling' on my business card, but i can put 'Relationship Enhancement' on there. We can put Spiritual Counseling on advertisement too, as long as we are certified with a church or organization, like UMS. This does not mean it has to be a free service either. Even a minister gets paid for his services, TAX FREE, in every active church i know. I do not see a problem with charging for our time, if performing a legitimate service in our own eyes. I performed three Marriages this year, and I ask for a donation of $40 for that service. I think the key word is 'Donation'. The religious community does well in the court system, because the courts are based on God. (We swear in, using a bible) If it's God's Intent, it is very hard to fight, but i am not saying it won't be fought. However; Religion has been around longer than the court system. Something with a very strong backing. It just has to be worded right and performed with a spiritual nature. The minute we stray from that, we may be liable if the right steps are not taken.
Hypnotherapy can be kept spiritual, but, i chose to do both spiritual and non-spiritual hypnosis. I have to be very careful i do not accidentally treat someone with out a referral if they have symptoms of psychological or physiological signs. It's knowing what to look for and always have the clients best interest in heart.
Doing these things as a hobby is also very rewarding, if you have another career. I don't have another career. Hypnosis IS my career. It has to work. I won't let it fail. It's God's Intent through me.
Posted 9/17/2007 8:07 AM (#2595 - in reply to #2591) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
Location: Kaduna Nigeria
Our Doc sister, I greet you for saying it all. I take it that you are taking your job seriously as we should all do. This not in the list advocating for monetary services to our contented or affluent bretherens upholding the virtue of austerity which is really great.
With Endless Love and Light!
Posted 9/19/2007 2:03 AM (#2601 - in reply to #2595) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
The problem of a sue-happy planet is that there is a problem with society, and therefore people don't know any other way to get lots of money. It used to be that you could just work hard and earn it, but no matter how hard a lot of people work, they can't earn much and they are living hand to mouth. Most people see no other way of getting ahead financially than to sue someone. Almost everyone will sue somebody in their lifetime. That really is a sad statement about our society. It's gotten to the point that poeple need insurance for the very act of suing. Everyone gets sued who goes into business, it seems.
One of the most important clauses that you could use with your business is that you are offering your services as spiritual guidance only, and that what you offer is not diagnostic or pschologically therapuetic in nature and that if a person needs professional therapy they need to seek professional counseling. You can cover yourself with this statement as a disclaimer in many instances.
Yes, the suing thing is really sad. It takes your attention off the spiritual work you wanted to do and you find yourself dealing with petty and made up situations from people who are just looking for a way to get something for nothing. No one seems to sue you if you don't have any money, but if you do, you become a target. I have a friend who that happened to, as soon as he started becoming successful and people saw him make money, people started suing him. No one seemed interested in suing him when he was offering his services for free, and as long as he was driving an old car, no one sued him, but as soon as he wrote a book, had a new car and bought a house, suddenly people wanted a piece and claimed outrageous things against him in order to try to extort money. The good news is that no one was able to win anything because the claims were so outrageous, and after that, he started using the clause above as further protection.
Posted 9/19/2007 10:15 PM (#2604 - in reply to #2591) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
Location: Maximum Overdrive
My thanks too Laura, as you have put it in perspective. But, you have also stated an undeniable truth, and that is how sad "we" have become. You can buy "justice?", as in the example of OJ..."if the glove don't fit, you must acquit"! People do sue people without money, because a judgment can be based on future earnings (again, as in OJ's case). Even if you win, you still have to pay your lawyer, and these people don't work cheap. You might recover court costs, and some legal fees, but please believe me, you will still spend a lot of money, even if you win! Oh, and Doc J.....Religion, over recent history, fares very badly in courts...the most prevalent at this time is the Roman Catholic Church, which has paid out big bucks. Swaggert, Jimmy Bakker, the SMU, the Church of JC of Later Day Saints (Mormons), Billy Graham, have all had whopper law suits and many a litigant has won against very large and powerful organizations. But the thing that you said which most touched me is that one swears on a bible in our temples of justice.......well, some tell the truth as they see it, some tell the truth as can be directed in favor of one thing versus another, and others outright LIE. And all have sworn...BTW, most, if not all, do not use a bible anymore (they administer an oath under penalty of perjury). It comes from Perjurare, from Latin, per (destruction) jurare (to swear) In Latin texts, it means to break an oath said before the gods. I am so hoping that those who live under the Age of Aquarius, will not be like "us"; and see a different path to the adjudication of disputes. Opposition of one to another will always occur, it is how it is resolved that shows the spirituality of humankind at the moment. Let the sun shine, Marty
Posted 9/20/2007 12:57 PM (#2608 - in reply to #2591) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
Location: NE Ohio
Wow.... amazing info Marty..... you always amaze me with your knowledge. Mine was obviously out of date. LOL I am in serious need of an social upgrade. HA HA HA Been hermit stuck in room studying for too long. LOL
I know about SOME of the religious fraudulent type of people going to courts, who have given spirituality a bad name. Some of them really deserved the stuff. But many do not. It's all in the intent.... the minute the intent is corrupt, then it all goes heywire. I agree with much of what you say Marty.
Seems i have been lucky enough to avoid any court (other than child support / custody) battles. Which you don't swear in or take the stand. You just raise your right hand. So i guess you are right, times are changing big time. Everyone wants to take God out of everything anymore now that i think about it. What a shame. And people are getting away with lying so badly. Another huge shame. You make very good comments Marty.... Giggles.... you always know your stuff. I always have my head in books, always studying, but not experiencing the NEWS or much of the outside world other than my kids sports and parents, immediate family. When i do read the news or listen to it, i just get overwhelmed with sadness. So i tend to just live in my own world, and only deal with my clients, studies, family and personal issues. If i can avoid the rotten things that are constantly going on, i can deal with others and not be so weighted. Make sense?
I guess i purposely stay away from the thought on purpose. Like OJ.... i do not know anything much about him at all, other than basics. I won't concentrate on him, because too many others are and i want to concentrate on other things. I guess i won't feed my energy in that direction. I won't buy the book and support that nature either.
But i do like to protect my own. So taking precautions are needed. wording things right is needed. Insurance is needed anymore in any business. It's also good to incorporate. Another form of some protection from personal liability.
Posted 9/22/2007 2:58 AM (#2614 - in reply to #2591) Subject: RE: Credentials and Legalities
Location: Maximum Overdrive
Hi Doc.....you have said some wonderful things....one of which I quote: "I always have my head in books, always studying" She's right folks, it is a life journey of learning, and we will never finish, but only begin again. But, Doc's most precious advice (if you want to practice) is to incorporate.....that simple act changes the whole nature of things. Hat's off to you Doc! A stroke of genius!! Regardez vous, mon cherie, Marty
I posted the above link sometime back; it is a fairly new UK-based but international association that seeks to bring together spiritual workers and offer some kind of voluntary 'regulation' and insurance. These are increasingly important in the UK where spiritual healing and related areas are subject to increasing state vigilance.