The Big Picture???
Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 7:54 AM (#2295)
Subject: The Big Picture???


I have just registered in this discussion forum and have taken time to browse posts, but so far I haven't found any post to join into.
I hope I am not breaking protocol or missing a discussion I should other wise be in.
I have always had a sense that I am special or different and more or less ignored it for the first 35 years of my life while I got on with growing up and getting a scientific education, career and family. That was 17 years ago. I am now 52 and have spent 17 years exploring for hidden truths in modern and ancient writings.
I finally arrived at a point where I can say that I have found my personal Nirvana. I am at peace with the World my life and existence and believe that I know the details of the big picture concerning life the universe and everything. The moderator has encouraged me to join this group to share my hypotheses as follow:-

Hypotheses

1) There is a higher plane (or dimension) of existence that others have called Heaven.

2) There is no God per se.

3) The higher plane of existence (or energetic sentience) created our universe to convert energy to sentience.

4) Our Universe is a creation of matter from energy using Einstein's principles

5) To qualify to conjoin with this higher plane we need to purge ourselves of badness. (evil, sin, etc.)

6) The higher plane is not generally sensible by our dimension.

7) Our innate sense of rightness or morality comes from the higher plane

8) Our World, Planet Earth, is the purging place. It is a place of temptation and sin designed to filter desirable sentient energy to the higher plane.

9) The higher plane does not want sin, evil, bad or corrupt energy in its realm. i.e. The higher plane is "good"

10) When we are worthy of joining the higher plane we dispense with this existence and our energy (spirit) can become one with the higher plane.

11) The higher plane or dimension is not physical; it is an energetic state that has sentience.

12) The higher plane or dimension is ubiquitous and is not constrained by time or space.

13) The Earth IS "The Garden of Eden". Everything needed for this "proving ground" has been supplied by the higher plane or dimension.

14) The Earth should be revered and treated well, its' resources not squandered, because the World like humans is transitory in nature.

15) There need not necessarily be life on any other world in the Universe because the Universe was created for the sole purpose of fostering an environment for the process mentioned above.

16) Children (newly created sentience) are born without badness (sin). Thus, everyone has the potential to progress through this existence to the higher plane.

17) By living a "good" life and proving worthiness, all can enter the higher plane.

18) The energy (or spirit) of those that do not qualify for the next plane is dissipated back to the universe (hell, inferno) at death and re-cycled through the processes of the universe to new life which has a renewed chance to pass to the higher plane. i.e. in terms of energy, progressive reincarnation is possible, but at some point in the future (Armageddon), the Universe will not be able to sustain further recycling via matter. Any energy that is not converted to sentience at that time will dissipate as energy in the higher plane.

19) Due to the Laws of Thermodynamics, the Universe will continue to expand and decay to lower energy states until it ceases to exist. All matter from creation will be recycled to energy in the higher plane.

20) Realization of all of the above empowers and burdens the incumbent with the duty of telling others the truth and to show them the way to the higher plane. Hence, the missions of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed.

Further Hypotheses

1) Ghosts are a manifestation of energy that is in a state between this plane and the next higher plane that is improperly or ineffectively re-cycled.

2) Supernatural events are channeled from the energy of the higher plane by people that are in some way sensitive to that plane.

3) Demons, malevolent spirits etc. are manifestations of the human mind.

4) Physical events alleged to occur during demonic possessions etc. are the result of mass hysteria, suggestibility or trickery.

5) This World is evolving into an ever more complex testing ground with increasing levels of temptation to divert people from the simple way to join the higher plane.

6) Evolution and Creation are both realities. The Universe was created and it is evolving.

7) Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were men who realized the things above and tried to extend these findings to all people. Their message has been corrupted in transmission by people who did not have the capacity to understand the true inner meaning.

8) The language and semantics of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were those of people with a lower level of understanding, at that time, of the Universe we live in.

9) The higher plane cannot intercede in our dimension. We exist within an unstoppable process that will eventually decay to a zero energy state by re-assimilation into the higher plane.

I invite others to discuss these things with me.

Peace !


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Tracy Martin
Posted 7/19/2007 10:39 AM (#2296 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hi Mike! I am so glad that you decided to post! You have learned and concluded so much in your spiritual investigations. I will comment on a very small part of the Big Picture now.

"This World is evolving into an ever more complex testing ground with increasing levels of temptation to divert people from the simple way to join the higher plane."

I am thinking that as I watch the lives of children and young adults unfold, that they seem to have a grasp of spiritual concepts that took me fifty years to learn. I know I am a slower learner, (I don't mind), but these kids understand things about the difference between the higher and lower self, laws of attraction, karma, and the interdependence of everything at a younger age and with a finer understanding. If they haven't studied, they learn at an amazing pace. Many take their knowledge and their psychic gifts as a basic given. So, I am wondering if in our evolutionary path, it is actually getting easier for people to enter the higher planes. We have within the mass consciousness the accumulated spiritual realizations of generations of people and we are learning to access that knowledge and power. Also, it seems that the very fabric of time and space is making the learning process unfold quicker, manifestation is faster, revelation and inner healing come quicker. Some would say that in these times it is essential for humanity to 'wake up' as we are at a crossroads concerning survival. 


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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 11:03 AM (#2297 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Thankyou for acknowledging me Tracy.
I am at exploding point .... I am ready after 17 years to discuss these matters with kindred spirits
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 11:11 AM (#2298 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Excuse my ineptness at manipulating the forum.... I have spent 17 years absorbed in other things and I guess the Internet is not yet my vocation
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 11:14 AM (#2299 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


I have just had a session with my wife trying to explain my EPIPHANY to her..... she is trying to assimilate what I told her
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Tracy Martin
Posted 7/19/2007 11:31 AM (#2300 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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This is so interesting and exciting! You have the kind of mind that can lay out your conclusions in a very organized manner..

I suppose I would have to hold off on the "there is no God perse..." as I experience the Universe as a sentient Being with a will of its own which I can surrender myself to and commune with.

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soulfire
Posted 7/19/2007 12:14 PM (#2304 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Agrees with Tracy. If you are speaking about an extrenal God who rules the universe by puppet strings, then no there is not. But I like to belive in the universe and all in it as aspects of God. We are all seeking to lift ourselves up to a higher vibration and evolve. I Am. God is in me and you and everyone and everything. We are all aspects of the divine.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 12:24 PM (#2306 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


In answer to your points regarding the current young people. I agree. We (in this plane) are evolving or maturing to a point where perhaps we can cast off superstition, supernaturalism, and doubt..... perhaps our children and their childrens' children will not be burdened by superstition etc. as we were.
Maybe there is a GOLDEN AGE for humanity as prophesied where the future of our existence is governed by reason, truth and enlightenment.
Peace.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 12:56 PM (#2307 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Tracy,
I see the next dimension as an accumulation of sentience (Intelligence) that you may percieve to be one spirit personified as A God....... My take on the subject is that there is a sentience ( intelligence ) whatever you want to call it that is older than we can imagine in our plane of existence and is wiser and "gooder" (I know that's bad English but whatever..... I'm just trying to express myself ) than we can imagine.

I tried to explain this to my wife just now and I used the analogy of "Flatland" - This is not my invention - I read about Flatland on the internet ( copyright disclaimer :-) )

As we are 3 dimensional creations, we cannot fully understand a 4th, 5th or whatever dimension ( I believe Stephen Hawking has expounded 11 dimensions - but don't quote me ....)
Flatland is something we can imagine because it is a lower dimensionality than ours.
Imagine a world that has only left, right, back and forward...... First dimension is zero, left (negative ) and right (positive) i.e 1 dimension. Think about high school graphs for zero plus and minus :-)
2nd dimension is zero, forward (positive) and backward (negative) i.e the second dimension of that universe ( like a dot on a sheet of paper that doesn't know that there is an up and down.)
How can that ink dot on the sheet of paper ever KNOW that there is a 3 dimensional Human being looking down on it when oit can only percieve back forth left and right, but NO UP AND DOWN?
This is our state in the 3rd dimension trying to imagine the next dimension.
Sentience in the next dimension is all pervading, all seeing and all knowing due to it's next dimensionality ......But not omnipotent. It (he? ( she?? ) GOD ? sentience or whatever, is bounded by some basic rules that we are already recognize.
Hence I hypothesize that the creation/evolution process that is underway (that we exist within) is a one way trip - it has a finite term and finite time for the recycling of energy to the higher plane.

Peace.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 1:09 PM (#2308 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Soulfire,
you are on the right track - this is the point that I arrived at in my youth, I could not believe in the puppet string God because, if, he (she or it ) was all powefrul, why would he she or it, allow suffering in the world?
A God that created people from goodness would not want to persecute his ( her )(Its) creation.
Please read my post and consider my view of the possibilities - Think about it.....

Peace.
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Tracy Martin
Posted 7/19/2007 2:34 PM (#2309 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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I suspect that the sentient Universe is having far too much 'fun' experiencing materiality to completely end it. New life forms and new intelligences will most likely arise after the extinction of the human race. Other planets likely hold life forms that are not necessarily carbon based or oxygen dependent. Or a whole new material dimension could be created. One thing is certain, we now live in a constantly changing dimension! Mike, you have gone beyond my comprehension!
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Dancer
Posted 7/19/2007 6:17 PM (#2311 - in reply to #2309)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


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Wow!

Very interesting!

Not sure I agree with or even understand everything that you said
but it's very interesting. You have quite the higher mind!
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/19/2007 8:07 PM (#2313 - in reply to #2311)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


I really want people to understand what I am saying - please feel free to ask for any points of clarification.
My view is a simple one that doesn't require an understanding of cosmology, nuclear physics or whatever. It is the same story that Buddha and others tried to tell people. The only difference in what I am saying is that my language was developed in the present. It is only the words that have changed, not the message. My background is science, so I use scientific terms, but High School science is more than adequate to understand what I have to say.
Please hang onto the ideas and ask for help to understand. It took me 17 years to get it, but I didn't have a teacher to help me.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/20/2007 6:38 AM (#2319 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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My Dear Mike

I can’t see that anyone would mind at all that you started this new thread, I for one welcome it. It has taken a bit of time to think about all this and I thank you so much for enabling me to do this. I will give you my own personal take on each point, but I must emphasise these are my own beliefs which feel right for me. I am not saying that I am right or that anyone else is wrong. I am not here to judge anyone else but myself and I like to keep an open mind to other opinions and will take these on if they resonate with me. I haven’t really studied any religious texts in depth and I certainly would not be able to quote any of them as I am no expert. I do believe that it also depends how these have been translated. Have you read anything about the Dead Sea Scrolls? Further research has shown how there were many mistranslations and that things that did not suit the translators were left out. What I am now going to share with you results mostly with direct connections with the Universe (or any other word you wish to use) and what I see as Universal laws.

1. I believe that there are many higher and lower planes not just one that some call heaven.
2. There seem to be many names such as Allah, Jehovah, God, Great Spirit, Supreme Being etc my preferred word/s are Universal mind.
3. Don’t know, but it does not reasonate with me.
4. I do believe that Einstein gave us a new interpretation but also believe that we are now going further. I’m sure that Marty could help here as I do not have his vast knowledge concerning Einstein.
5. Whose interpretation of badness, evil, sin are you using?
6. Not too sure what you mean here.
7. I think that this resides within us, we know in our hearts what is right or wrong for us.
8. I believe our World, Planet Earth and the Universe is rather like a stage and that we are all actors playing out a part. Again who defines ‘sin’?
9. What you call sin, evil, bad and corrupt energy all belong here if I can accept your interpretation without these we could not have their opposites and what a bland world this would then be. How could we then learn and grow.
10. I believe that we are all one with the higher planes. For me I believe that ‘spirit’ connects to our present physical body and that ‘soul’ is our essence which encompasses all that we ever were. But they are just words aren’t they?
11. I have visited the ‘highest plane’ again for want of better words. It is the Buddhists nothingness or no-thing ness, where our physical words, worries and details mean absolutely NOTHING; it is a wonderful space to be in.
12. I believe that there are many levels as I have mentioned before, each with different aspects.
13. I like to think of it as a stage as I mentioned before, what is reality? Quite a question that is debated extensively in certain schools of psychology.
14. Yes this is part of the ‘play’ enabling people to come to an understanding of the Earth or stage. But who should tell people who live in the so called ‘Third World’ countries that they must not cut down trees to provide fuel to keep warm and to cook their food. The people spouting this are often those from countries who use vast resources for themselves and live a very different lifestyle.
15. I believe that there is life on other planets in our Universe and in other Universes.
16. No, I do not believe this. Some souls are very much darker or lighter than others. A phrase I have never forgotten is “There are those who appear light but are dark within and those who appear dark (people who might be called sinners etc) but are light within”. We all belong, we are all one; we all have our part to play.
17. Whose definition of ‘good’ do you use? The higher planes or the one called Heaven bars no-one. I have heard many say that people who commit suicide cannot enter heaven; I think that this is a Christian belief. I do not believe that any spirit or soul is barred. “There but for the grace of God or whatever name go I”.
18. Yes there are lower planes but I don’t believe in hell except in our own minds. I do believe in Karma and that we reap what we sow. I believe that I carry an instant Karma which means that if I do harm any other it immediately teaches me that I have been wrong. I have also witnessed that when people help me they reap an instant Karma and if they have not treated me as they would wish to be treated, they also receive an instant Karma. This means that I can bless whoever, move on and let the Universe sort it out, as a lesson, or not, for them as part of their learning.
19. Sorry don’t know.
20. Whose ‘truth’? Who judges what is true? I can only judge what I feel is true and I am happy to allow others to judge what is true for them. There are so many ways of looking at and living in this World.

Further Hypothesis

1 I believe that ghosts are the earthbound spirits of those who have not gone on to the light. I also believe that lightworkers such as myself are here to help them over to the light, whenever called on to do so.
2 No I do not believe this, I do not have a clear answer for you, I would need an example of the sort of supernatural event you have in mind.
3 Not in every instance.
4 I do believe in mass hysteria but not in every case.
5 This stage, this planet is here to help us learn, evolve and grow. My own personal philosophy is that when we have chosen our parents and the general circumstances that we wish to work through it is as though we are thrown back in by a giant hand and told “See what you can make of it this time”. Then it is like a computer game, with challenges and lessons to work through. At our worst times I find the best way to deal with whatever is to stand back dispassionately to try and see what is going on, what do I have to learn from this? Then I trust the Universe and go with the flow and do not to battle against it. When I have tried to battle against whatever, kicking and screaming all the way I have just wasted a mass of my own personal energy. So now I relax and see where life takes me, which is always onwards and upwards eventually.
6 Who or what created the Universe?
7 I believe that Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed and many others were not just men or women but they were great souls reincarnated to help the other souls around them in this World. Their message may well have been corrupted by others but each soul has the ability to find their own meaning it just depends what level has been attained and does not stop a deeper meaning at a later stage when other things may click into place.
8 Who can judge what level others are at? In my experience the simplest of people often have the deepest inner knowledge far beyond those who profess to know the ‘truth’.
9 No, this does not resonate with me at all. I do believe that if we do not ask for help higher beings cannot help. But if we do ask for help what is right for each of us can be actioned.

Well this has taken me quite a while to think through and answer each point to the best of my ability. I emphasise that this is my personal take on the bigger picture. I have done this because Mike asked me to answer. But what I will not be doing is defending anything that I believe in, just as I respect anyone else’s right to think in whatever way that they feel is right for them. However I am also open to other viewpoints as I am always ready to progress and assimilate higher truths as they resonate with me. I encourage everyone else to do the same, decide what is right for you, you will know when something really resonates with you or not. I do not pretend to know all the answers or indeed any of the answers.

Thank you Mike for this opportunity. Bless you.

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/20/2007 10:17 AM (#2321 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello. It's lovely to meet you through this forum.
I already sense that we are experiencing or have experienced similar thoughts.
We are not way out of line with each other. This is one of my points, that different people use different language to express the same thing.
My language is that of a scientist - you seem very enlightened. I don't know your background, but it doesn't matter, we have similar views.
My whole reason for setting this post in motion was to be able to communicate with kindred spirits. I feel a little strange and awkward about this because I don't believe I am any different or better than anyone else. I hope you read the other messages in this thread. I am a human being who has had an obsessive need to find "something" within my lifetime. It took me 17 years to get to the point where I can now formulate my ideas into a (hopefully) coherent set of theories about why we are here and how things work..... I don't have all the answers and there are many more people much more capable than I to delve into the mysteries of how scientific principles make everything work, but, I have arrived at a place in my existence where my mind is clear, I feel like a lightbulb switched on and I now understand something. I can't prove what I have said, but what I have said feels correct to ME and this has given me as a human being an inner peace and has taken away any misgivings or fears about death and so on. I WILL leave this Earth and go to another dimension when I die, and I know the way to do it is by being a "good" person. I firmly believe this, but for me it extends beyond belief. It feels to me that I KNOW this. I also feel that I understand the message of other great minds in the past like Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha. Their expression, of this same situation that I am in drove them to do what they did. The people around them interpreted these messages in the only way they knew how at that time.

I am so pleased you are willing to talk about this :-)

Beyond my spiritual feelings, I also have family duties to attend.
I will print your response to me and think about it and come back to you over the weekend when I have time.


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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/20/2007 10:38 AM (#2322 - in reply to #2321)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
If you want to know a little about my background have a look at my website, just press the button below. I am also science based my science degree covered chemistry, physics, geology, biology & cosmology as well as psychology.

Very best wishes

Elizabeth
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Dancer
Posted 7/20/2007 11:08 AM (#2323 - in reply to #2313)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


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First let me say: With all due respect for your truths and journey Mike,

I'm sorry, I don't really need clarification, I simply wanted to compliment you on your expanisive mind.

We all have the right to our own definitions of things, I was just validating yours.

I don't need to understand yours fully, nor do I need a 'teacher' per se, I have my own truths too.

Live on in your own truth and let your own light shine, it doesn't have to be the light that others subscribe to. That's what makes us all unique, and that's what makes me dislike religion. Metaphysics allows us to follow our own truths and not subscribe to what anyone else decided was theirs.

Sorry, I hope you don't take offence to my comments, I was going to just let it go, but felt I needed to speak my piece.

Respectfully,
Dancer
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/20/2007 11:38 AM (#2324 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Welll said Dancer.
If you have reached your personal Nirvana that makes sense to you then so be it.
I don't want to preach to you or try to convert your ideas to fall in line with mine.
I respect your viewpoint.
Peace.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/20/2007 1:54 PM (#2326 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Elizabeth.
here are my replies:-
1. I believe that there are many higher and lower planes not just one that some call heaven.
* I don’t know about this – I have only experienced a higher something. I don’t agree or disagree with you. The nature of these other dimensions may only be available to certain people who are attuned to their vibrations.
2. There seem to be many names such as Allah, Jehovah, God, Great Spirit, Supreme Being etc my preferred word/s are Universal mind. Agreed – I use the word sentience
* Universal mind is equally acceptable to me – as I have said different people use different words, but the sentiment is the same.
3. Don’t know, but it does not reasonate with me.
* What then do you think, feel, believe or know? I could be wrong. Let’s talk about it.

4. I do believe that Einstein gave us a new interpretation but also believe that we are now going further. I’m sure that Marty could help here as I do not have his vast knowledge concerning Einstein.
• I welcome all comers to this discussion – the more ideas we can share the better our chance of coming to a reasonable consensus.

5. Whose interpretation of badness, evil, sin are you using?
• The “traditional” one – perhaps the 10 commandments give a clue here????

6. Not too sure what you mean here.
• Most people are unaware that another dimension exists because there is no tangible evidence of it in this dimension.

7. I think that this resides within us, we know in our hearts what is right or wrong for us.
*How did it get into our heart? I believe it was put there.

8. I believe our World, Planet Earth and the Universe is rather like a stage and that we are all actors playing out a part. Again who defines ‘sin’?
* The Earth and this life is what we make of it. Our Garden of Eden can be a beautiful and peaceful place to exist in, but it is also possible for badness to manifest itself in this dimension.

9. What you call sin, evil, bad and corrupt energy all belong here if I can accept your interpretation without these we could not have their opposites and what a bland world this would then be. How could we then learn and grow.
• Agreed


10. I believe that we are all one with the higher planes. For me I believe that ‘spirit’ connects to our present physical body and that ‘soul’ is our essence which encompasses all that we ever were. But they are just words aren’t they?
* Yes – I call spirit energy and soul sentience – it is only a difference of words.

11. I have visited the ‘highest plane’ again for want of better words. It is the Buddhists nothingness or no-thing ness, where our physical words, worries and details mean absolutely NOTHING; it is a wonderful space to be in.
* This is something I hesitated to write because others would not believe it – I foresee having to answer “prove it” questions. I cannot prove it. I have been blessed with a glimpse of the next dimension. Unless one has experienced it, it is extremely difficult to communicate what it is or how you managed to do it.

12. I believe that there are many levels as I have mentioned before, each with different aspects.
I have no argument for this. Either one of us may be correct or not.

13. I like to think of it as a stage as I mentioned before, what is reality? Quite a question that is debated extensively in certain schools of psychology.
* I understand what you are saying – for me, we are the subject of a laboratory experiment – a process set in motion for a reason that is being observed from the next dimension. In that sense yes, we are on a stage, a constructed set where events occur.

14. Yes this is part of the ‘play’ enabling people to come to an understanding of the Earth or stage. But who should tell people who live in the so called ‘Third World’ countries that they must not cut down trees to provide fuel to keep warm and to cook their food. The people spouting this are often those from countries who use vast resources for themselves and live a very different lifestyle.
* Agreed

15. I believe that there is life on other planets in our Universe and in other Universes.
* I don’t disbelieve the possibility – I merely said that it is not necessarily required that there be life elsewhere.

16. No, I do not believe this. Some souls are very much darker or lighter than others. A phrase I have never forgotten is “There are those who appear light but are dark within and those who appear dark (people who might be called sinners etc) but are light within”. We all belong, we are all one; we all have our part to play.
* I cannot disagree with you, but my view is that pure energy, for you, spirit, is converted to a new soul. Think of electricity – it is a pure energy but has no sentience, soul or intelligence. This soul has the chance to be good or bad, but it depends upon how that soul (child) is trained and what lessons it learns in this existence. At the end of this existence if the soul has been purged of sin or badness or evil, or has even been evil throughout it’s existence, so long as it GENUINELY repents before death and the re-cycling process it will be eligible for the higher plane.

17. Whose definition of ‘good’ do you use? The higher planes or the one called Heaven bars no-one. I have heard many say that people who commit suicide cannot enter heaven; I think that this is a Christian belief. I do not believe that any spirit or soul is barred. “There but for the grace of God or whatever name go I”
* I think that any life that is terminated prematurely by accident, misdeed or suicide may enter the next plane if it has lived a good life. However, if that life was terminated before the soul was purified it will go to the same fate as souls that die in an unpurged state. So, a prematurely terminated existence may result in an inability of the soul to go to the next dimension. Like any human that does not live a good life, the energy (spirit) will dissipate back into this universe and may or may not have a second chance at sometime in the future before the universe decays to a zero energy state that can recycle energy (spirit) to sentience (soul joined with the Universal mind)

18. Yes there are lower planes but I don’t believe in hell except in our own minds. I do believe in Karma and that we reap what we sow. I believe that I carry an instant Karma which means that if I do harm any other it immediately teaches me that I have been wrong. I have also witnessed that when people help me they reap an instant Karma and if they have not treated me as they would wish to be treated, they also receive an instant Karma. This means that I can bless whoever, move on and let the Universe sort it out, as a lesson, or not, for them as part of their learning.
* Karma is not something I have thought about yet, so cannot agree or disagree – I am happy to hear more from you on this subject.

For me Hell is another way of saying chaos or disorder.
When energy(spirit) is ordered into matter or Sentience (soul) then it is no longer in Hell. If a soul dies without passing to the next plane its’ energy is dissipated back to the pool of energy in this plane. The molecules and atoms may decay to a state of atoms and molecules that can be re-assimilated into a human being by the process of human reproduction and growth. Without being crass, it is statistically possible for you to drink your own urine during your lifetime – after passing it out, the molecules of water can pass back into the earth and one day may end up back in your cup. I refer to the same process of putting atoms and molecules back into another life.


19. Sorry don’t know.
If you are interested, look for definitions of entropy in Wikipedia. It’s High School science.

20. Whose ‘truth’? Who judges what is true? I can only judge what I feel is true and I am happy to allow others to judge what is true for them. There are so many ways of looking at and living in this World.
• Maybe my wording is a little astray here. I hope you can help me get it straight. All I am saying is that the enlightened soul due to it’s enlightenment will realize from it’s enlightenment that if the information is imparted to others it will improve the state of this existence. E.g. war and killing is wrong. No one has the right to deprive another soul of its’ chance to go to the next dimension.

Further Hypothesis

1 I believe that ghosts are the earthbound spirits of those who have not gone on to the light. I also believe that lightworkers such as myself are here to help them over to the light, whenever called on to do so.
* If you have the ability to do that then it is the “right” thing to do for an enlightened soul.

2 No I do not believe this, I do not have a clear answer for you, I would need an example of the sort of supernatural event you have in mind.
*This is why I put such matters under “further hypotheses”. I don’t have a clear answer too.
I am thinking of things like psycho kinesis, seeing the future, déjà vu….

3 Not in every instance. I am happy to discuss this futher with you – I have no clear idea about this.

4 I do believe in mass hysteria but not in every case.
*OK something else for further discussion.

5 This stage, this planet is here to help us learn, evolve and grow. My own personal philosophy is that when we have chosen our parents and the general circumstances that we wish to work through it is as though we are thrown back in by a giant hand and told “See what you can make of it this time”. Then it is like a computer game, with challenges and lessons to work through. At our worst times I find the best way to deal with whatever is to stand back dispassionately to try and see what is going on, what do I have to learn from this? Then I trust the Universe and go with the flow and do not to battle against it. When I have tried to battle against whatever, kicking and screaming all the way I have just wasted a mass of my own personal energy. So now I relax and see where life takes me, which is always onwards and upwards eventually.
* Does this refer back to your Karmic beliefs? I prefer to believe that life is what you make of it. Newton’s first law – to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction – if you don’t do something or initiate something, nothing will happen.

6 Who or what created the Universe?
* maybe a higher evolved entity in the next dimension or just another entity doing the best it can to exist???? I don’t know for sure. What I do see though is that after the creation, matter was created that evolved into stars and planets with elements that could further evolve into microbes, slugs snails, cats dogs humans etc etc etc.


7 I believe that Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed and many others were not just men or women but they were great souls reincarnated to help the other souls around them in this World. Their message may well have been corrupted by others but each soul has the ability to find their own meaning it just depends what level has been attained and does not stop a deeper meaning at a later stage when other things may click into place.
* perhaps – another point for discussion


8 Who can judge what level others are at? In my experience the simplest of people often have the deepest inner knowledge far beyond those who profess to know the ‘truth’.
• Agreed it seems the more the human mind is diverted with the complexities of this life, the further it gets from a simple conversion from energy (spirit) to soul and unity with the next dimension.

9 No, this does not resonate with me at all. I do believe that if we do not ask for help higher beings cannot help. But if we do ask for help what is right for each of us can be actioned.
• Well on this one we need also to discuss further. From my scientific view the higher dimension started a process bounded by some of the laws of physics that we are already able to understand – like lighting a fuse to a bomb if you like, at some point that bomb will explode – it is unstoppable perhaps once the fuse is inside the outer skin of the bomb it is no longer possible to pour water on it. In that sense the higher dimension cannot intercede

Wow – took a while to type all this…..

Peace.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/20/2007 5:56 PM (#2327 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
Hi Mike

I have read everything through thoroughly and indeed I responded all your original points but I do not believe that I have anymore that I wish to elaborate on with you at this stage. I'm sure that it would be more interesting to read points of view from others. If anything else comes up that I wish to respond to, I will do so.

Love & Light

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/20/2007 9:40 PM (#2328 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


OK then thankyou for sharing your ideas with me. You have certainly stimulated me to further think this through and I have already incorporated your views into my list of possibilities.
While we wait for further input, may I ask you some simple questions?
I have been thinking about symptoms or signs in this plane that a person may be attuned to the higher plane or Universal mind.
1) Do you suffer from Tinitis?
2) Does your physical body vibrate or feel like it is vibrating when you are at one with the Universal mind?
I respect you if you do not wish to answer these questions.

I look forward to others sharing our ideas and perhaps providing fresh input.

Peace.
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Dancer
Posted 7/20/2007 11:51 PM (#2329 - in reply to #2328)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


UMS Student

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Funny you ask those questions.
My mother would be a yes to #1
My father is a yes to #2.

Interesting, eh?
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/21/2007 4:52 AM (#2330 - in reply to #2328)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
I have no problem answering these questions. I respect your views and my own but I did not wish to have a debate on them.

I do not suffer from tinnitus BUT from a very early age I have had a feeling as though electricity is coursing through my ears but I have never been disturbed by this. A bit like the buzz from electricity pylons. I have it now.

When I am meditating, taking others through guided visualisation and healing my body becomes overflowing with energy, I get VERY hot and my body sways and yes I feel a vibration from the energy that comes upwards from the Earth although I am normally seated when in this state. The energy I channel from above is much cooler and calming. Those with me also feel these themselves. I can take people into meditations and visualisations so very intensely but when they try to replicate at home they are unable to achieve this by themselves. I can also link in with others at a certain time to see what our combined energies achieve. I will be doing mass healings/meditations/visualisations throughout the day at my New Healing Event in September. I now know that my purpose in this lifetime is as a 'seed sower' and Earth Healer. To my great surprise on a visit to Mill Valley CA over ten years ago I found that this was what the Universe required of me.

Love & Light

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/21/2007 1:56 PM (#2334 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Absolutely fanatstic Elizabeth..... I have EXACTLY your experiences.
Please show me the way to help others...... Whatever has happened to me now, I feel driven to help or teach, or assist others...
peace to you- please help me through this process......... I need to pass my message and help others......
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/21/2007 5:19 PM (#2335 - in reply to #2334)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
Hi Mike

You need some answers don't you? I am going to suggest that you meditate, cut all ties and cords, fill yourself with energy to raise your vibration then link in and ask your questions. The really powerful stuff that I work with was not found in any book, I developed by meditating, linking, asking direct and most of all doing and being guided by the Universe. You may not get all the answers immediately but it is well worth while. Have a go, if you haven't already done some of this. We all need to work on ourselves first so we can be as clear a channel as possible. I will 'talk' more later.

Love and Light.

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 3:02 AM (#2339 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Elizabeth Ann,
just passing something on - I just read an article in Scientific American by Seth lloyd and Y. Jack Ng. entitled "black hole COMPUTERS"
it is very interesting and has given me more food for thought. I really don't know all the answers and I know there are greater scientific minds than mine, I will incorporate their ideas into my thoughts. Their article suggests that through Physics and Information Theory, matter could possibly have a computing ability. It's a long article and if you are interested in it and cannot find a copy, perhaps I can scan and send to you. ( is that copyright infringement? )
The implication for me is that the universe could have intelligence or a Universal mind in your language.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/22/2007 4:44 AM (#2340 - in reply to #2339)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
Eirepetra, just an aside on tinnitus, my training in nutritional medicine views this as a mineral deficiency and I also see this ailment as not listening to the Universe. Tinnitus can be very distressing for those who suffer from it.

Talking of mineral deficiencies in iridology there is a sign named an assimilation ring. This appears like an orange halo around the pupil. The problem is that the body is not assimilating nutrients fully; this sign also shows me that the person concerned has a healing ability; the more pronounced the greater the ability. They may not even consider themselves healers but they are, often they are listeners and people seek them out to tell their story to and ask advice. Oft times telling their story to someone who will just listen is all they require. So why do natural healers commonly have these problems with their digestive systems because of the poor assimilation of nutrients? I am asking myself really.

Nobody knows all the answers, beware of those who think they do!

There is much research into A.I. or artificial intelligence and I was writing a 4000 word paper on this based on cognitive psychology for my BSc degree. I was at the end and I was just tidying it up and stating that a computer could not have an intelligence of its own when I lost the lot. I searched for this lost file but believe me it could not be retrieved. So I just started again and right at the end I told my tutor what has happened and that I thought the computer was telling me something. When my paper was marked by him he obviously thought that my conclusion was correct and was very amused by what had happened.

Strange things do happen when I am using my computer, email address that I haven't typed in pop up at times. I believe that the Universe can use technology to help us, not only computers but any electrical or powered machinery. Some years ago I had come in from a very cold, wet and tiring, almost nightmare motorcycle ride home from the midlands through lashing rain and very poor visibility. There were warning not to travel because of these conditions. My business partner who was going in the other direction in a van did not want me to go. It was as if I had survived, I had wanted to get home so I just kept riding. I drew a hot bath and this helped to revive me. When I got out I remembered that the boiler was not working and when I looked the pilot light was still out so I thanked the Universe for the hot water and called out the gas engineer the next morning to repair it.

Telephones, tape players you name it they have all been used as a medium. I try very hard not to turn light switches on or off with my left hand as they will often blow. My old combined washing machine-tumble dryer decided to blow and catch fire when I used my left hand to turn the dial to set the machine. At a show I was running I kept a radio phone in my left hand while I was working from my show office, it may have been an hour or so. It started to malfunction and got very hot, the light on it glowed amber so I was issued another one. When I told my radio man he laughed and said the light shows either red or green for battery level but not amber, but he did not seem surprised as he had known me for many years.

I might well be an enlightened soul and be able o send or take lost souls onto the light but I also know that many others can and actually do this work as well. So many lost souls especially from the wars and from accidents need help to go on to the light but that is a whole other story.

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 5:21 AM (#2341 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Elizabeth Ann,
by the way my name is Mike. - I am not hiding behind my screen name. I am British and now working in China.
I use eirepetra because it is a hangover from my chidhood - it's all very silly and to do with rhymes and things when I was a child, but during my diversion into growing up, jobs and family responsibilities, I had forgotten about eirepetra. Eventually it became obsessive with me - I had to find out what eirepetra meant. This is one of the things that drove me on a spiritual search. I finally regressed and remembered what eirepetra meant to me. I use the name to remind myself of my journey. It has deep meaning to me but probably signifies nothing to others. It's just a conundrum of things that stimulated me as a child.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 5:25 AM (#2342 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


If I send you a scan of my eyes could you tell me what you see?
I haven't studued iridology, but I believe that you may know something I don't.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 7:36 AM (#2343 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Elizabeth Ann,
I have experienced street lights switching off when I walk by. Coincidence? I don't know.
Something else strange, I developed a small colourless "mole" between my eyebrows when I started to feel I was getting somewhere in my search.
Third eye???? I have no theories about this and make no claims. Just something like the tinnitus that I have noticed.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/22/2007 8:08 AM (#2344 - in reply to #2342)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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I might be able to tell you something from a scan of your eyes, it depends on the quality and detail of the photos. There are some details that can only be picked up by the human eye. Send them and I will give it a go.

Elizabeth

PS China has quite a special significance to me.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/22/2007 8:12 AM (#2345 - in reply to #2341)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
Hi Mike

In my own mind Eire linked with Ireland and Petra is a name. As you are British have you studied any Pagan or Celtic texts?

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 9:24 AM (#2346 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hi Elizabeth Ann,
Eirepetra probably has no meaning to anyone else. It was just a glimmer of something in my early childhood. Words or notions that I heard as a child being discussed by adults around me while my brain and consciousness were developing. Many things like this were susequently buried by more currently needed thoughts and thought processes in my day to day life. Essentially, my earliest childhood memories were buried in an incomprehensible state that plagued me for years . When I really started making ground on my journey I realized that my mind did not have perfect recall - my childhood memories were jumbled like a bowl of spaghetti :-) I have sorted out the tangles now - lost the confusion - and dredged the depths of my brain to untangle the things I did not understand as a child that were just shuttled away to the back of my mind during the process of developing my personality, consciousness, sentience or whatever word we choose to describe it. These words and whatever conversations and notions were transmitteed at that time impressed me with awe and I guess they were imprinted into my childish brain. From my search to understand what eirepetra meant I explored my mind, and so for me eirepetra is symbolic of my journey to undersdtanding myself and moving into a more enlightened state.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 9:28 AM (#2347 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hi again,
have I studied Pagan and Celtic? Yes extensively, but this has nothing to do with that. They were words imprinted into my mind at an early age before I understood anything about the Celts or Paganism.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 9:56 AM (#2348 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


:-) I am having so much trouble trying to take pictures of my own eyeballs - it's amusing - I guess we all need some light relief occasionally.
I'll try to get someone to help me with this. bear with me, and thankyou for offering me a consultancy free of charge :-)
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/22/2007 9:57 AM (#2349 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


:-) :-) my young son says " Daddy you need to turn the camera around"
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/22/2007 11:59 AM (#2351 - in reply to #2349)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Do each eye separately, focus on the pupil, use macro, zoom and a forced flash. It is not that easy to get a good photo but using these instructions you may well get lucky.

This is not a free consultation, I'm just going to look, my full Iridology consultations are 2-3 hours, and strictly 1-2-1 which I do charge for.

But if you can get good photos to me I will look and see if anything jumps out and I'm not looking for money. In fact if others want to send me good photos of their irises I'll have a look at them as well and let you know what is of greatest importance. If it is not obvious tell me which is your left and your right one.

Eye'll be seeing you!!

Elizabeth
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mruppert
Posted 7/25/2007 12:07 AM (#2379 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



1000500100100100100252525
Hi Mike and Elizabeth:
     Nothing to do with "eyes" as the "Ayes" have it in most votes. Mike, I was particularly interested in your reference to a SciAm article, what issue? I've got stacks sitting around waiting to be read.
     HOWEVER, did you notice that SciAm, Aug '07, has this great big eyeball on the cover? Elizabeth, the article is "Windows on the Mind" with the header "How tiny twitches preserve vision and reveal thoughts". I've only glanced at it, but there is much in this to think about. Of course, it is available in part on the web, but if you would like the original, full, copy, I will send it to you. I am only thinking that you may want to make marginal notes and check certain portions for commonality with your experience.
    Mein Gott! Not what I wanted to say at all, but had to let you all know.
      Okay, Mike, (I offer this as my pet theories)  matter does not think.....it relates. At the quantum level, it has yes/no potentialities. The observer realizes the potential, as if flipping a switch on or off. Proven fact! Go back in the SciAm archives or read the modern day quantum physicists.
     At zero point, from the subatomic perspective, there is no time. All has stopped. Therefore, there is all time, as when it is potentially realized, it becomes what the observer sees it to be.
However, at zero point, there is radiated energy; (again, search the SciAm archives, as I believe there is a very good article on this) an energy that we cannot explain.That  "dark" energy allows the potentialization.
     Mike AND Elizabeth, science fiction is replete with "thinking machines." Science fact on AI is speculative at best. The happenstance  that Gary Kasparov defeated IBM's original chess program, then lost to "Deep Blue" is meaningless. Did the  machine outthink him.....well, NO, it did what it was programmed to do. The program was a lot more sophisticated the second time around. Machines have three fatal flaws, and therefore, there will be no AI, in the sense of thinking machines. Those three are:
1) They need continuous external sources of power for  functionality.....we do not!
2) They cannot "feel" and we can!
3) They Chicken Paprikash cannot scissors associate free estimate disparate the love bug will bitecha if you don't watchout  thoughts Mommy with camera the objective pencil  thoughts as book  they occur car in any pizza semblance knight of wine logic.
So, if you understand what I just wrote in #3, you will know that there can never be any artificial intelligence.WE think, machines do not !!
With Best Wishes to you both,
Marty
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/25/2007 6:03 AM (#2381 - in reply to #2379)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Marty,
this is wonderful input thankyou so much for not being dismissive. I don't expect you to agree with everything I wrote, because I am still trying to formulate my ideas and I wanted to discuss this stuff with people who may at least consider I am not a raving religionist using different words. I am finding Traditional Scientists can be as dogmatic as Traditional Religionists.
The issue I referred to is SciAm Reports - Special Edition on Astrophysics. April 2007. I picked up my copy in New Zealand last month, but I am back in China now and cannot easily get my hands on SciAm (in English), but next trip to Hong Kong I will look for the issue you mentioned.
Your point of view is interesting and also makes sense to me. let me think about it for a while and maybe this is something we can explore together.

Elizabeth Ann,
I guess you are still monitoring the forum. I am having a hard time getting eye pictures, but haven't given up on it.

Marty, Nice meeting you.






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Eirepetra
Posted 7/25/2007 6:07 AM (#2382 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Marty,
P.S. I completely understand your #3 and get your point.

Regards,

Mike.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/25/2007 6:13 AM (#2383 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Elizabeth, Marty,
as I am new to this forum, I don't want to irritate any of the members or moderators, but, is there a way to draw other people into this conversation?
The more ideas and shared experiences we have the more fruitful our discussions might be.

Peace.
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/25/2007 9:05 AM (#2384 - in reply to #2383)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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HI Mike

People will join in when and if they decide to do so, have you looked to see how many have viewed this thread? Not easy to get good photos of the eyes is it?

Why don’t you join in some of the other threads so that others in this forum can get to know you?

Hi Marty

Yes I would really love to read that article if you would send it please. Many thanks for your support.

I do believe that the Universe can influence our technology and use it to get info to us when necessary. I suppose it isn’t really A.I. at that point is it?

Many thanks

Elizabeth
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/25/2007 12:56 PM (#2390 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Eirepetra - 2007-07-19 7:54 AM

Hypotheses

1) There is a higher plane (or dimension) of existence that others have called Heaven.
- I think its all a frame of mind with intelligence, beyond our comprehension.
2) There is no God per se.
- It's conscious thought (Intelligence)

3) The higher plane of existence (or energetic sentience) created our universe to convert energy to sentience.
- We also have lower planes of existance in theory too.

4) Our Universe is a creation of matter from energy using Einstein's principles.
-from a scientific point of view, yes. with other principles as well. Kelvin, Tesla, etc.

5) To qualify to conjoin with this higher plane we need to purge ourselves of badness. (evil, sin, etc.)
Sounds like a Christian based type of comment. Open the mind..... there is more to it than judgement.

6) The higher plane is not generally sensible by our dimension.
- In my own opinion, i feel this one is wrong.... Channeling,Mediumship, etc. Has gained information from higher planes. #7 contradicts and proves it.

7) Our innate sense of rightness or morality comes from the higher plane
- It comes from fight or flight learning to survive or die.... evolution, along with guidance from that higher plane that CAN reach us after all. It's the combination of teachers, parents and higher guides as well as inner true self.

8) Our World, Planet Earth, is the purging place. It is a place of temptation and sin designed to filter desirable sentient energy to the higher plane.
-It's a place where we choose to learn and find balance. Both negative and positive must exist to maintain equilibrium.

9) The higher plane does not want sin, evil, bad or corrupt energy in its realm. i.e. The higher plane is "good" The higher plane has US already in it.
-We came from there just to experience all there is. We already know better, but we like to know what EVERYTHING is like. So we choose to feel all sides.

10) When we are worthy of joining the higher plane we dispense with this existence and our energy (spirit) can become one with the higher plane.
-We are already one with the higher plane. We just don't understand it while in human form, because we are born with amnesia. Then we remember again. We have already been worthy, are worthy and will always be worthy.

11) The higher plane or dimension is not physical; it is an energetic state that has sentience.
-I agree.... it's intelligent energy.

12) The higher plane or dimension is ubiquitous and is not constrained by time or space.
-I agree too.... well said.

13) The Earth IS "The Garden of Eden". Everything needed for this "proving ground" has been supplied by the higher plane or dimension.
-I disagree. We do not have to prove anything, because we cannot fail. Just experience all there is. We are god, all that their is.... he isn't going to chop off part of himself and condemn part of his own body.... slap it and say - BAD BOY! lol You go to hell now..... LOL Only MAN could come up with that one.

14) The Earth should be revered and treated well, its' resources not squandered, because the World like humans is transitory in nature.
-I agree that the earth should be treated better. Some people really don't realize the harm they constantly cause. But we are ALL guilty. I drive a car too. It pushes gas fumes out into our air..... however, we also needed heat to survive. So we burned things to make heat or we die.... now punish us for trying to survive????? it's all rather silly....

15) There need not necessarily be life on any other world in the Universe because the Universe was created for the sole purpose of fostering an environment for the process mentioned above.
- I disagree. There are many universes, many other earths, and uncountable intelligence. Yet all one..... endless. All a frame of mind, so think what you want. We all go back to our real home and then recycle again, just for the fun of it.

16) Children (newly created sentience) are born without badness (sin). Thus, everyone has the potential to progress through this existence to the higher plane.
-Sin is a man made word for being imperfect. Get rid of this human form and we will be perfect again.

17) By living a "good" life and proving worthiness, all can enter the higher plane.
-We will enter the higher plane anyway, but it's a whole lot better experiencing good things over bad things, so we developed religion to help those with no morals to quit hurting others. We needed it severely, but it's taken to extremes and we have ghosts due to fear of judgment as well as many other human mental disorders or abuse.

18) The energy (or spirit) of those that do not qualify for the next plane is dissipated back to the universe (hell, inferno) at death and re-cycled through the processes of the universe to new life which has a renewed chance to pass to the higher plane. i.e. in terms of energy, progressive reincarnation is possible, but at some point in the future (Armageddon), the Universe will not be able to sustain further recycling via matter. Any energy that is not converted to sentience at that time will dissipate as energy in the higher plane.
-my own belief system is that Reincarnation is a choice. One does not learn compassion to be a good guide, unless they learn what it's like to be the villain.

19) Due to the Laws of Thermodynamics, the Universe will continue to expand and decay to lower energy states until it ceases to exist. All matter from creation will be recycled to energy in the higher plane.
-We all would go into a higher plane eventually anyway.... When we want to.

20) Realization of all of the above empowers and burdens the incumbent with the duty of telling others the truth and to show them the way to the higher plane. Hence, the missions of Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed.
- All masters have good intentions, but all still human. Why is it that only a few get to be so important with twisted views that the average mans imperfections will lead to some hell. Man created Demons, Man created hell..... when their general point is always twisted into "do this, or go to hell" when it should be "we are loved unconditionally, because WE ARE GOD". ALL OF US. Not just a few..... YOU are important, YOU are God, YOU are going to the higher place.... reguardless of your human traits that we were given with a purpose to experience all there is.


Further Hypotheses

1) Ghosts are a manifestation of energy that is in a state between this plane and the next higher plane that is improperly or ineffectively re-cycled.
-Ghosts are not always stuck, they choose to hang around for loved ones, or fear left over from man made religious beliefs of hell and judgment and to be honest their are as many reasons and people on earth. But it's their CHOICE. To all eternity, why should they be in a hurry?

2) Supernatural events are channeled from the energy of the higher plane by people that are in some way sensitive to that plane.
-right on..... AGREE whole heartedly.

3) Demons, malevolent spirits etc. are manifestations of the human mind.
-You nailed that one -right on the mark.... I agree. Well said.

4) Physical events alleged to occur during demonic possessions etc. are the result of mass hysteria, suggestibility or trickery.
-Religious belief systems too.

5) This World is evolving into an ever more complex testing ground with increasing levels of temptation to divert people from the simple way to join the higher plane. -Perhaps for some.... and for others we just know better.

6) Evolution and Creation are both realities. The Universe was created and it is evolving. AGREE

7) Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed were men who realized the things above and tried to extend these findings to all people. Their message has been corrupted in transmission by people who did not have the capacity to understand the true inner meaning.
- I agree. Good people indeed, but misunderstood lots.

8) The language and semantics of Buddha, Jesus and Mohamed were those of people with a lower level of understanding, at that time, of the Universe we live in.
- perhaps. Try reading college material to a 3rd grader.... they will only understand their own level. It will be passed on in the language of the 3rd grade level.

9) The higher plane cannot intercede in our dimension. We exist within an unstoppable process that will eventually decay to a zero energy state by re-assimilation into the higher plane. -to a degree, unless one opens the mind and connects to the higher dimension mentally. Conscious thought is all that their is, regardless of physical state.

I invite others to discuss these things with me.
- I may not agree to everything, but much of it makes a lot of sense, with what much of religion has pushed on us all. It has much to teach but does take it too far.

Peace !
-Blessings to you too.



I gave my own opinions, at which may not be agreeable but are my own beliefs only. All my words start with a -

Enjoy.... and Thanks for posting these very interesting thoughts.... i would say for the most part, you are getting closer to how i feel too.
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/25/2007 7:42 PM (#2398 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Supernatural.
Nice meeting you.
You have really brightened my day tody. Thankyou so much for your post.
I spent 17 years of my life getting to the same point that you have reached. This whole thing has been such an uplifting experience to me. I no longer worry about my own mortality and can enjoy every moment of my life because my mind is at peace with God or Universal mind, or whatever word we choose.
I feel as if I have a duty or moral obligation to tell other people about it so that they in their way can have a beautiful existence. I have tried talking to scientists to find out if they can help me understand even more deeply about the mechanisms by which my hypotheses might work, but they immediately ask for evidence or something measurable and then dismiss me as a raving religionist. Religionists seem to a little more receptive, but unless they have experienced what I have experienced, they say "well done - trust in God - i.e just have blind faith" and that doesn't help me either.
I want to make the World a better place but can't seem to get a message to anyone other than a handful of people like yourself. This is really starting to torture me.
Can I ask how you deal with this? It seems very smug of me just to sit back and accept that I know something the next person doesn't knkw and my life is now happy and complete and they may be going through this world with needless fear and doubt that could be gotten rid of if they would just listen to what I have to say.

Many thanks already for saying what you have said already - every time I find someone who may not completely agree with me but at least understands what I am saying rekindles hope in me.

Peace.
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/25/2007 8:34 PM (#2400 - in reply to #2398)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
Eirepetra - 2007-07-25 7:42 PM

Hello Supernatural.
Nice meeting you.
You have really brightened my day tody. Thankyou so much for your post.
I spent 17 years of my life getting to the same point that you have reached. This whole thing has been such an uplifting experience to me. I no longer worry about my own mortality and can enjoy every moment of my life because my mind is at peace with God or Universal mind, or whatever word we choose.
I feel as if I have a duty or moral obligation to tell other people about it so that they in their way can have a beautiful existence. I have tried talking to scientists to find out if they can help me understand even more deeply about the mechanisms by which my hypotheses might work, but they immediately ask for evidence or something measurable and then dismiss me as a raving religionist. Religionists seem to a little more receptive, but unless they have experienced what I have experienced, they say "well done - trust in God - i.e just have blind faith" and that doesn't help me either.
I want to make the World a better place but can't seem to get a message to anyone other than a handful of people like yourself. This is really starting to torture me.
Can I ask how you deal with this? It seems very smug of me just to sit back and accept that I know something the next person doesn't knkw and my life is now happy and complete and they may be going through this world with needless fear and doubt that could be gotten rid of if they would just listen to what I have to say.

Many thanks already for saying what you have said already - every time I find someone who may not completely agree with me but at least understands what I am saying rekindles hope in me.

Peace.


I think we are close to the same feelings....

I don't make it my job to change others. You see... they will find out sooner or later anyway so i only really talk about my own feelings when they want to discuss it. Or i would be as bad as other religious pushers. (which drive me nuts) ....

To be honest, i don't care what the scientists think either. They are all science and no spirit. But they cannot explain how we all came to be 100%. They only have theories..... They are also empty inside, thinking that when they die... it's over. To me that is a shame.

I guess i do have to deal with this a lot, because of being in the paranormal field for 14 yrs. Trying to prove ghosts are real. Even though i have had a full blown conversation with my dead grandfather, who was not a ghost, but had crossed and come back to talk to me. He let me know it was beautiful and fulfilling. He let me know he was young again. Was this an illusion? was it a dream? Was it a hallucination? I have no idea.... but i immediately called my mom, proving that i was awake. Of course she thought i was on drugs at 11:00ish AM. I laughed because we all know better.

I have caught photos that prove something was there.... a scientist will say it's anything BUT what it was. I had psychic feelings to go along with the pictures i caught too. I guess i quit caring what others think.... unless they WANT my opinion. Then they get it.... but they also see how happy my life is. It's obvious that i live a very blessed life. You wouldn't believe how many people are actually jealous of my own fulfillment on life.

I just say.... anyone can achieve what i have. If they want it.... go get it. I have a strong marriage, and happy children. The money will come someday... lol. Cannot take it with me anyway and don't need it for anything other than here. But i would like my kids to not have to struggle as much as i had to. Still seems times are getting tougher on the financial end. But i have complete faith that what is needed will be there.

It took me a good 20 years to get where i am too.... and i am still in school. But i love it.... love my life and love all of you.
HUGS


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Eirepetra
Posted 7/26/2007 8:15 PM (#2409 - in reply to #2400)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Thankyou again.
I willl try to apply your method to myself. It sounds the sensible thing to do.
I don't think there is anything in general I now need to discuss with you.
I will stay in the forum and check by from time to time.
I am at peace. To me now every day is beautiful life is wondrous and i no longer need to fear death and the unknown.
It's a pity we cannot all be like this.

One last question to you and Elizabeth Ann,
Can you suggest what i can do with my new found inner peace to hel our fellow human beings without forcing trying to convert them ?
I note Elizabeth is in healing, you are in life coaching etc. I have multiple degrees and higher degrees in engineering and science, but all are in physical sciences, not healing sciences. Is there any way I can learn to draw down energy like you for healing? Can you suggest anything else I might use this knowledge for. I really feel I must do something, but as yet I am unsure what it is.

Peace.
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Supernatural3
Posted 7/26/2007 9:54 PM (#2411 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
These classes at UMS would do it. Or try a Reiki Class... that is healing. There are serious lots of classes for healing purposes and UMS covers a vast majority of them and some of them they just touch base on, for those interested to pursue more in.

It's all in what you like... what you FEEL. You will find your calling, it's already there waiting to say "Hello".

LOL

Blessings~
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 7/27/2007 3:41 AM (#2412 - in reply to #2409)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
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Location: Somerset England
Hi Mike

I agree with Doc J, sign up with UMS.

But something that you can do right now is go to this website www.fountain-international.org which is all about 'Helping to Heal the
World’ there is a film, the Fountain Meditation and Visual Meditation. If you have any problem running it you can get the DVD from them for a donation. If as you say you are like me you will be able to help so much in this way.

Wait for people to come to you for help and respect their own beliefs no matter what they are. If they ask, then tell them what you believe, people may be at very different levels which is as it should be. There are many ways that people view their world, you have obviously found your own which is wondrous for you but none of us ever stop learning and growing which is what makes life so interesting so make the most of it as you are clearly doing.

One way of healing is to listen, really listen to a person.

Listening

When I ask you to listen to me and you start giving me advice
You have not done what I asked.
When I ask you to listen to me and you begin to tell me why I shouldn’t feel that way
You are trampling on my feelings.
When I ask you to listen to me and you feel you have to do something to solve my problems
You have failed me, strange as that might seem.

Listen! All I asked, was that you listen
Not talk or do – just listen.

When you do something for me that I can and need to do
For myself, you contribute to my fear and weakness.
But, when you accept as a simple fact that I do feel what I feel
No matter how irrational, then I can quit trying to convince you
And can get about the business of understanding what’s behind this irrational feeling.
And when it’s clear the answers are obvious
And I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when we
Understand what’s behind them.
So, please listen and just hear me.
And, if you want to talk, wait a minute for your turn;
And I’ll listen to you


Author Unknown


It is so important not to force, try to convert or belittle anyone. Hope that helps

Bless you

Elizabeth
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/27/2007 10:48 AM (#2414 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Thankyou Elizabeth, Thankyou Doc.

Peace to you both.
If ever you are passing Hong Kong or Southern China let me know.

Mike.
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mruppert
Posted 7/27/2007 10:04 PM (#2415 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hi all:
     Mike, thanks for the SciAm reference, I shall find it shortly.
     I wish I could post interesting articles here in entirety,  but I am not sure if I would be covered by the educational "fair use" protection in re copyright (I am in the USA). Maybe the moderators can answer that question. I can link to articles, but they are not complete.....and we would miss much that is relevant. Afterall, magazines are in the business to make money.
     This thread has given me much to think about...and pause to to realize that all of the comments must make me think, rethink and think again about things.
     If the debate seems contentious, then that is all the more  splendid! It is how we learn, as long as we are willing to learn.
     If we all thought, felt, experienced, sensed, worshipped, chanted, meditated, healed, exalted, transcended, illumined, and enlightened the same, we would be nothing more than a totalitarianism.
     I have noticed that there is a great respect for the multitude of beliefs expressed here. Personally, I have  changed in direction many times, simply based on the insight (or even casual comment) of someone in these forums.
     I cannot speak for everyone, nor anyone, but I sense that we gather here for enlightenment. And, it seems to me that, the paths to enlightenment are as numerous as the stars in the sky!
Peace to you all,
Marty
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/28/2007 2:55 AM (#2420 - in reply to #2415)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Marty,
it seems to me that the main problem in trying to let others know about the things that Elizabeth, Doc and I KNOW, is that it is difficult to offer any tangible proof or evidence that what we know is factual or true. Miracles seem to work if we believe accounts in the Bible, but I don't think I have the power to do miracles, so another pathway is needed.
As I have said before, I was educated in Physical Sciences and Engineering so I use these terms to express myself. I came into my quest through the obsessive need to find out what a jumbled very early childhood memory actually meant. I reflected deeply and sometimes had some insight after a night out with friends and perhaps a glass of wine more than I should have drunk. This made me realize that I somehow needed to anaesthatize my body to allow my mind to roam free. I looked at the obvious ways to do this and with scientific knowledge, very quickly researched many ways to do this, some legal, some not quite so legal :-) After my first experiences of mind and body separation I began to realize that there was even more hiding in the background than I had thought. I only wanted to find out what this annoying word eirepetra meant but stumbled upon something infinitely more important. I then decided to look at ancient writings and purchased e-books with the text of Torah, Bible, Koran, Darma, Bhagadvita, Upanisads, Mahabarata and many more translated to English. One by one I devoured the texts and reflected upon the words, their possible literal meaning and then their metaphoric meaning. Throughout these writings are descriptions of human beings experiencing things that cannot be explained. I could not find out how Jesus communed with heaven, so figured I might try Buddha. The Buddha drove himself close to death by starvation and meditation and then had his life changing revelations, (one of which was it's not a good idea to starve yourself to death :-) ) Anyway, I figured meditation is probably the best legal way to commune with Heaven..... the rest is history. I joined this forum to explore my ideas and have very rapidly realized I am not wierd or too different to some other people.
The World has a long way to go. I watched a program a couple of days ago about 21st century weapons technology. As a Scientist and Engineer I was awestruck and fascinated - as a spiritual person I despair. People of the Earth seem determined to find more and more complex ways of destroying each other. Metal Storm - the latest evolution of the cannon or handgun. Firepower of 1 million rounds per second. Amazing.... but tragic.
People are so diverted by the complexity of modern life that they are moving further and further from a simple and fulfilling peacful life. I really wish I could in some small way stop the march of the destructive use of technology.
I recently watched programs about the mission of Jesus and wondered if a great leader is only defined by his will and determination to change things. I considered whether I should give up my job and go on a personal mission to visit current leaders and try to talk sense into their heads, face to face. My wife (bless her) pointed out to me that there is too much vested interest at World leader level to hope that I could change anyone's mind. I am resigned to this, but still feel an innate sense of the correctness of trying to help other people. I still have not found my calling, and as Doc J and Elizabeth have already pointed out to me I guess I just have to keep looking for it.
Obviously you are interested in what is said in this forum and are not dismissive about the possibilities, this is great, we need more open minded scientists.
Something else I would like to share with you is a recent book by Dr. francis S Collins. A Scientist Presents Evidence For Belief. The Language of God. ISBN-13: 978-0-7432-8639-8 or ISBN-10 0-7432-8639-1. Dr. Collins really puts all of this in perspective using scientific language. It's a fascinating read.

Peace.
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NothingEverything
Posted 7/28/2007 10:32 AM (#2422 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

1001002525
Location: Hirosaki, Japan
There's a beautiful coast and ancient town, on the island of Crete called Ierepetra.
And if you ever happen to visit, your heart will make residence.
But then again, did it ever really leave?
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Eirepetra
Posted 7/28/2007 12:01 PM (#2423 - in reply to #2422)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


WOW - FOR REAL???
I did not know that - I only spelled it that way because I know no better.
I will try to learn about it and see if there is any other significance.
Thanks for letting me know this.
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mruppert
Posted 7/28/2007 10:49 PM (#2424 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hat's off to NTET.....and, I guess it validates the purpose of UMS and these forums.
Go for it, Mike. Let us know what happens!
Peace Profound,
Marty
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Harley
Posted 7/29/2007 4:15 AM (#2426 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Student

Posts: 16

Location: Isle of Wight, England (UK)
Mike, in the bible, old and new, communication with Spirit was done by 'going up onto the mountain'. Throughout the bible this happened. Did it mean they all trekked up into mountains near them; what happened if they lived on flat planes? Or did it mean, from an esoterical point of view, that they raised their thought vibrations to a higher level (meditation) to commune with Spirit? How could the writers of the bible explain to the uneducated what meditation was? So the easiest explanation is that they 'went up onto the mountain' Look on the 'Blue Letter Bible' website where you can do word or phrase searches and you will see what I mean.
On another matter; try not to search too hard for your purpose on Earth in this lifetime. If you have already given yourself to Spirit or the Universe, then allow the natural progression to happen. Have TRUST in Spirit or the Universe to know what your soul has chosen for you in this lifetime, and PATIENCE to allow all things to happen at the right time.
Best wishes for your journey.
Terry

Edited by Harley 7/29/2007 4:18 AM
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mruppert
Posted 7/31/2007 9:57 PM (#2447 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hi all:
     I agree with Harleys observations. To put the biggest picture in another perspective may I offer the words of Margaret Atwood in a book which might be classifed as mainstream fiction, or science fiction, or, even fantasy....this excerpt is from "The Handmaids Tale".....in my view a book well worth reading.....it occurs at the very end.....
"We may call Eurydice forth from the world of the dead, but we cannot make her answer. And, when we turn to look at her, we glimpse her only for a moment before she slips from our grasp and flees. As all historians know, the past is a great darkness and filled with echoes, voices may reach us from it but what they say to us is imbued with the obscurity of the matrix out of which they come and, try as we may, we cannot always decipher them precisely in the clearer light of our own day"

Eternal Peace Profound,
Marty
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LOTA
Posted 8/1/2007 7:13 AM (#2452 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Hello Marty and everybody else on this forum,
I am a new kid on the block, albeit with greying hair.
Regarding the big picture and a search for meaning in life, as seen through the eyes of a scientist and engineer, I recommend a visit to http://www.universe-grand-design.com a place where the sciences and the soul meet.
On a personal note to Marty regarding meditation: learning to 'stop your thoughts' is the key (20 secs several times a day for a month and you will be amazed by the results).
Enjoy the tour on the Universe Grand Design.
Cornel
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Eirepetra
Posted 8/1/2007 9:18 AM (#2453 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


I am noticing a common thread between some posts, something I have not considereed.
Why do you, we, this group or forum, or wahtever, think that we choose to be born into this life - we choose our parents and so on.
I really want to hear some ideas on this subject because my feeling is we are part of a process set in motion by something (God - Universal Mind - Sentience or whichever word each of us is comfortable with)

I woulkd apreciate some enlightenment in an area I have not thought about.

Peace.
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Supernatural3
Posted 8/1/2007 12:37 PM (#2454 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
I think we choose everything, because we can. Since we are all GOD, why wouldn't we choose. The reason we would choose to experience all that there is , is to simply experience it. So we can empathize with all situations and be truly understanding to all possibilities. This is where and how unconditional love is learned. We would never understand the term unconditional if we do not sooner or later place ourselves in the shoes of everything.

At least that is my own way of looking at it. LOL
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Harley
Posted 8/1/2007 12:39 PM (#2455 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Student

Posts: 16

Location: Isle of Wight, England (UK)
Mike
We, our true self, our Soul and Divine Spark, are the only eternal things, the vehicles (our bodies) in which we incarnate are born and die. The Souls were there 'in the beginning' are here now, and will be for ever, to quote the bible. Our Soul needs to progress to a point that it need not return to any incarnation and to return to the Godhead, but may return by choice, such as, as an Avatar. To progress, the Soul needs to learn and sets itself lessons before coming into each incarnation, making agreements with other Souls who will incarnate on or around the same time, maybe as parents, siblings, friends, workmates, lovers, therapists, the nasty person at the bus stop, you get the picture. In addition the Soul also has to deal with karma from previous incarnations. This is why it needs to choose its parents and grandparents, because some human traits or genes skip a generation. The time and date of birth are also important, due to the vibrational influence of the planets, as this will add to the type of personality needed to fulfill these lessons.
Terry

Edited by Harley 8/1/2007 12:41 PM
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mruppert
Posted 8/5/2007 12:43 AM (#2477 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hi LOTA et al:
     LOTA, I wil check out the link as soon as I possibly can. Too many things happening at the moment.
     Mike, look at it this way, I was born with some pretty crappy parents, and I never thought that I would be doing what I am doing now. What in the world caused me to pursue what I do?
     The universe? Far more than I ever imagined it could be or should be! Sentience? Far more than mortal thoughts can formulate!
      My scientific background and approach has only caused me to be even more adamant in specific things....and they defy mainstream science. But, I now know them as true.
       Keep looking, Mike.....

Regards and Peace,
Marty
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Eirepetra
Posted 8/5/2007 8:10 AM (#2478 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???


Doc J, Terry and Marty, Elizabeth and others,
I really am thankful I found this forum. I have gotten things off my chest, cleared my mind, found like minded spirits, and adjusted to my new perspective on life. We may not agree in entirety, or use the same words to express our discoveries, but I get the feeling that we have all found our Nirvana, for want of a better word. We are at peace with ourselves, our neighbours and our existence and look forward to the next..... something...... we no longer fear death and uncertainty. Wouldn't it be a wonderful existence if everybody could have this experience? I look forward to tomorrow with joy, I can't wait to wake from sleep to experience another day of the beauty and wonder of the earth. I see beauty in the miracle of nature. I'm still looking for my calling. I am currently in other fora with obstinate scientists, winning them over one by one..... maybe this is my calling .....
Thankyou all - I feel like a new star in the sky..... and it is because of your help...
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Elizabeth Ann
Posted 8/5/2007 9:54 AM (#2479 - in reply to #2478)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



UMS Student

Posts: 101
100
Location: Somerset England
It was a great pleasure to be a small part of this.

Bright Blessings

Elizabeth
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Supernatural3
Posted 8/5/2007 3:32 PM (#2480 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



PhD Alumni

Posts: 1701
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Location: NE Ohio
You are very welcome... and Thank you for being part of us all.

I am sure your new way of thinking will spark an entire universe of light onto those who brush lives with you.

HUGS
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mruppert
Posted 8/6/2007 11:38 PM (#2486 - in reply to #2295)
Subject: RE: The Big Picture???



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Hi Cornel:
     No more grey than I am! Naw, I  still have salt and pepper.
      I took a peek at the site and can say that I find things that I agree with 100%, things that I am 50-50 on, and things that I seriously question. Which means that it is a darn good site, at least for me.
      My goal is to show the world of science, religion as "religious experience", mysticism and spirituality as being one and the same.
      The trap I have fallen into is that empirical evidence seems to be okay if we talk of evolution or relativity, but does not seem to "cut the mustard" when we talk of ghosts or god.
      Anyway, it is nice to have someone who takes a similar approach as I do, as part of these forums.
      Does this move us away from the purely spiritual folk who gather here? No, I don't think so....I think it brings us together.
      Every now and then, though, one starts to look at the body of knowledge and experience that has been accumulated, and sees that there is a preponderance of evidence that point to certain conclusions. 
       My study of "energetic healing" (along with crash, self imposed, courses in quantum physics, mechanics and chemistry AND going back to history) has lead me to believe that there can be a conclusion drawn.
       Should you be interested, please send me a private message and I will elaborate....as well as for anyone else who may be interested.
        I only say this as I do not wish to offend anyone who thinks other than I do, or to influence in any way  those that might be setting out on a path of one road or another. Also, I may be totally wrong! It has happened before, and (I am sure) will happen again!

Peace Profound,
Marty
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