I personally do not believe in just thing as demons, but i believe all things created with both negative and positive, as proven in physics (at least on earth) i believe in the possibility of ghosts. I think demons are intelligent beings that choose negative focus, it's not that that positive is not there, it's just not their choice, for some various reasons and self gratification. I think we have mean people, why can't we have mean ghosts.
However, as talking in multi-dimensional realms, what if two layers in time, overlap. And a person just happened to be standing in the same spot and occupying the same space. Wouldn't that cause some collision? At which some saw as "possession". Or possibly seeing a glipse of yourself in a different time - "doppleganger".
I am not talking about a religious theory, but a quantum physics theory, multiple layers..... all time existing at once.
Dimension of realms would explain a ton of things. We just cannot measure it, so it's past our own comprehension.
Posted 5/27/2007 1:34 AM (#1892 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
The field of physics may indeed some day be used to describe these phenomena. The vehicle for this type of action is unknown, at least to me. I feel at this point in time that work in the area is pure speculation. It is compelling speculation however and I do not feel we should avoid it. String theory (I hope you where referring to string theory) would in a way validate all those teenagers who day-dreamed of other dimensions. Me being one of them. That alternate dimensions explain many things is to string theorists absolutely true. It is in fact part of their search for "The theory of everything" and as such is a very "plastic" idea, theoretically explaining much. To answer your question about a "collision" physics tells us this is unnecessary and to some this means impossible.
As to demons, I assume You have much more experience with troublesome spirits than most of us, and as such may find our advice unhelpful. I am however interested. In your previous posts you have expressed a disbelief in demons. I hope you do not think me rude, but does this post represent a reversal of your opinion? I do not refer to possession but to disembodied spirits. I realize you emphasize cooperation of a sort in Your ghost hunting.
Posted 5/27/2007 11:54 AM (#1893 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
HA HA I can see where I may have contradicted my own self in my last post.
What i was referring was never my own problem, but as a long time organized paranormal investigation team, we come across so many people who do feel they are deeling with demons. (they are taught this from their religion). We even have ghost groups out there who are specializing in demonology. (Which is solely based on religion) So, I wanted non-religious possible theories from a spiritualists point of view.
I don't believe them to be of something from a religious point of view, like from a place called hell. Because i think hell is a frame of mind, and a choice that we all make that is an illusion. So in my first question, i wanted to express that i do however believe in ghosts. I have seen far too many to be a non-believer. But just as a person can be negative in personality, i think the personality can indeed carry over out of choice. (at least until healed).
I have very much dealt with negative ghosts, but I feel they are not really negative, just standing ground and being blunt, in trying to get someones attention. Which i don't feel is all that negative. I think it's just misunderstood.
If a client calls me, they feel they are having issues with a possible ghost. Things are happening around them that they cannot explain. Like things moving, water turning on by it'self, toilets flushing, Cabinets being left open, Smells that are nasty, A personality problem is happening with one of the family members as if he is "Changing" or being effected, ever since moving into this specific home. Not horrible bad, just mean. I wouldn't consider this anything but a possible ghost, that is trying to make a point. But MANY would jump to the conclusion of it being a demon, while it scaring the crap out of their clients.
I personally would never do that, because i don't believe in demons (100% pure negative energy). I only believe in other explanations, like something choosing to thrive on the negative side, instead of it's positive.
Just wanted to hear other theories on what is the possible cause of these things.
Posted 3/23/2008 12:25 PM (#3994 - in reply to #1892) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: No I'm not impersonating a cat! I'm a laughing Owl
Anything that does not support the current "regimes" beliefs or pursuits is usually discounted. I don't believe that the search for truth was or is the purpose for lending credence to a field of study. It's the fields of study that support current beliefs. It's easier to discount all else so that the current reality is maintained. It's like building a dam of lies to support the foundation of current beliefs and standards. Facing the truth is painful. It always will be but facing the truth is most necessary in order for true growth and progression.
As long as there are those who would snuff out the light of truth there will always be those like us here willing to pioneer a new path. Those who are willing to look deeper into that which is frightening or disturbing to the mainstream in order to see what truths lie within.
Posted 3/24/2008 4:46 PM (#4019 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: West Texas
thats very interesting, i have never looked at demons in that way. so do you belive that (satan) is a state of our own being. like our negative side. or do you belive it to be an actual being seprate from god and humans?
Posted 3/24/2008 6:32 PM (#4021 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
Well, I believe satan was the first MAN to step on earth. He was an angel and fell..... to be human. At that point, he hurt, bled, felt pain, didn't have his connection with God like he did, didn't feel loved like he used to, etc. He felt hunger, cold, etc.
Wouldn't that make anyone who never felt these things think it was HELL?
Other angels followed him and regretted it... so they pointed the finger at the first one.... After all, it was HIS fault. Satan then got blamed for everything.
Now, it's still happening.... Satan gets blamed for everyone's problems. "The Devil made me do it". Yeah right.....
Excuses Excuses..... We are the land of excuses.
That is my Satan theory.... But I also think of hell being a frame of mind. Lack of Love.... is hell. It can be in human form, it can be in spiritual realm. It's what we "Think".
At least that is what I think.... LOL
But, I take charge for my own actions. I planned my choices, i made them and I learn by mistakes. I let love in my life and I choose to have that sunshine break my shade. I do happen to like the dark side too.... neither side is perfect. If we have too much hot, we burn. Too much cold, we freeze. It's the blend of good and bad that will create a balanced happiness.
I don't want to be ALL good.... because then people will walk all over me, take from me and not learn much from me. I don't want to be all bad, because then I will hurt people and they do not always generally deserve that either (in some cases) lol. I like being a little good, and a little bad. I like being HUMAN. I do not want to be anymore than that, until my time is done here. Side Note* My bad is only brought out, when needed. Not a power trip either, just to let those know, I don't take crap. Just like a parent does with disciplining a child that doesn't behave. Sometimes it's good to be bad.
Posted 3/24/2008 6:43 PM (#4022 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
Rose, I think it's very possible to be occupying two dimensions at one time. A good example of this could be when we are dreaming. Our bodies are on earth, but our minds are in a different realm. We do not know that what we experience in our dreams is not real. All memories, even dreamed, are stored as real.
That is why as a hypnotist, I won't do age regressions unless it's the last resort, because while under hypnosis a person can very much experience a NEW memory, and think it to be very real, when it may not have happened at all. That happens when a client is accidentally lead. While under, the client naturally wants to please the hypnotist and will comply with most suggestions. Someone with a real imagination can experience anything in their mind, and feel it really happened easily.
So our minds are complicated, but our energy and intelligence is unlimited and I think it comes from a higher source (through ourselves). Quite complicated to talk about, or explain it as I see it.
Just my own deep thoughts.... but i do think we exist in multiple layers, or realms. I also believe we are all connected, like I am one of many fingers of something much larger. I have many other body parts.... some of them are not so pleasant and some of them are very beautiful. But no matter how ugly or mean a part of my body is, I won't send that part to a place called hell.... then part of me would be there. Maybe part of me already is there.... why not? I guess we all experience everything at once.
Posted 3/25/2008 12:47 PM (#4035 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: Seattle, Washington
A friend of mine's husband had an interesting experience some years ago regarding different planes of existence.
He was working for a major corporation that was doing many lay-offs at the time and he knew his department was next. There were 6 people and only 2 of those workers
were to be kept on after the downsizing took place. Sure enough one Friday, 4 of the workers in his department (including him) were given their walking papers. My friend
decided he was not going to accept this and all weekend he kept affirming that he did not work for a company that would lay him off. The next Monday he went into work as
usual and found that the 3 other people who had been laid off with him were also there. No one said anything and it was as if the downsizing had never happened! The only
explanation my friend could come up with was that he had switched to another plane of existence where a different 'reality' had been set into motion.
That leads me to believe we do this much more often than we might imagine and without conscious awareness. Perhaps when we feel compelled to do anything out of the
norm, like drive a different route than our usual one to work, we move to another plane and thus get a different outcome? So it would seem choice plays a major factor, but
it seems choice on a level of Soul awareness rather than physical awareness.
Ok, I'm going to stop now otherwise I'll go on and on! Questions lead to answers that lead to questions...I love that about life!
Posted 3/25/2008 2:07 PM (#4038 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: United Kingdom
We are now leaving behind us the Age of Pisces; this age has been one of blind faith, of delusions and deceptions, and of overwhelming amounts of suffering. At the beginning of the Piscean Age, when the teachings of the Christ that were given through the Master Jesus, some strange descriptions of a creature called the devil came into being. Your comment, Jill: ‘I believe Satan was the first MAN to step on the Earth. He was an angel and fell – to be human.’ seems fairly typical of this to me. To entertain such beliefs was still good enough two thousand years ago because that was all our race could understand in those days. But, we have come a long way since then; we have developed and moved on into the Age of Aquarius. This is an age in which ever more spiritual wisdom is going to be poured into the individual and collective consciousness of our race, to help cleanse ourselves from all false beliefs, prejudices and superstitions. And even though we are only standing at the threshold of this age, a great deal of knowledge has already been made available.
For example, by now many are aware that our Creator is both Mother and Father to us; that the same duality principle is at the basis of all aspects of God’s Creation and therefore also to humankind. Whilst dualities affect every part of all earthly life, in God all is one; the different aspects of Divinity work together and function harmoniously as one. Each one of us is here to work on integrating and reconciling the opposing forces within them and to find their way back into the same wholeness that is in God, thus becoming one again with God. This is the evolutionary state the soul of humankind, individually and collectively, has been striving towards, ever since its creation. Alas, to this day, large parts of humankind are still waiting to wake up to knowing who they truly are, why they are here and why such dualities exist. To my mind, it is sheer ignorance that is responsible for most of the problems we are encountering in our lives; they are due to our own character make-up. The world around us is a mirror of what we are on the inner level, and everybody’s inner flaws are reflected in the events of our world.
We were created in the image of God and everything that is in God is also in us. Because of God’s dual nature, there also are two parts to our being. On the one hand there is our Highest or God Self, which is all good. On the other, there is our lower or earthly self, its counterpart and polar opposite. When we first descended into matter, our learning is bound to have consisted mostly of behaviour patterns that are now considered to be all evil. In the early days of Christianity – shall we say? – the evil doings brought about by everyone’s own lower nature were explained away as being under the influence of an outside force, the devil. They could therefore not be controlled by us. However, the wisdom that is now coming to us reveals that there is no such thing as the devil – but that there is one part to each one of us which is capable of doing devilish things. What a world of difference!
All problems we and our world ever encountered invariably were a result of following the destructive drives and urges of the lower aspect of our nature. With this knowledge the Universe is laying the power for putting an end to all the suffering that still is in us and our world in everybody’s own hands. To bring our new and peaceful world into being, each must face the task of bringing their own lower character traces under their control. For as far back as history records are available, one part of humankind has always been trying – with more or less success – to dominate and overwhelm others. It is true, we are here to learn how to dominate, but this does not apply to other people but the lower aspects of everybody’s own nature. We shall be dealing with the devil in more detail in future parts of these jottings. May it suffice for now to say that we are not here to reject or sit in judgement over any part of ourselves, including our lower earthly self; it is a fact and we have to deal with it. One thing is sure, the results of its drives and urges are not the work of the devil; they never were – they are of our own doing.
Having been created in God’s image means that each one of us is a microcosm of the macrocosm; and everything that is in God is also in us. Because of this, it is worth our while to remind ourselves frequently that:
vEverybody has everything within them;
vWe all are a mixture of good and bad;
vThere is no-one who is either all good or all bad;
vHuman behaviour is not compulsory;
vWe can and indeed have a duty to choose which part we act out, at any given time.
A vital part of our learning process is that we are constantly being presented with choices. The only true freedom we have whilst in physicality is that we can choose how to act and react in all situations and towards all people. Whether the result of any of our actions is good or bad depends entirely on the motivation behind them and the wisdom of the choices we make. The sooner one finds out that this is so and consciously acts upon the knowledge one has found, the better it is for the personal and collective evolution of our race.
Posted 3/26/2008 10:34 PM (#4059 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
Exactly.... while I may have worded it differently, isn't it time to realize that we are all part of both good and bad. The books of Christianity are severe old and many refuse to get with the times. Refuse to adapt and learn that perhaps, they are wrong. While some parts are good and needed, some parts and simply insane to really fear such negativity.
I don't believe in a devil..... only lack of love or refusal of love. I believe the devil to be man. But not in a negative way, just in an un-enlightened way, until he (we) remember again who we really are again, which is God. We are NOT separate, but whole.
But I know so many people out there who swear they are effected by demons. Some swear they have witnessed these things. Being in a paranormal investigation group, that is connected to other groups universally, it's amazing the belief system that is out there, and how many are scared to death of such things.
I honestly believe it all comes down to one's belief system. Their religious belief system has a HUGE part of it all. If they honestly believe in such thing, I think they can create it to be so. (i don't know why or how) but I know it's been done. I also think there has to be other explanations, other than something that is 100% negative. Since I do not believe in intelligence that is 100% negative, I cannot comprehend it personally. It's not in my own belief system. A demon will never effect me. Or should I say, I will deny the possibility, due to my own belief system and label it a different name and cause.
I guess it all comes down to what one is willing to believe in..... My reality is by far not the same reality as anyone else on earth. Nobody else can ever see through my eyes, unless I donate them, or they are very talented in remote viewing, while feeling my emotions, etc. I cannot speak for what others see and feel, but I do like reading about it.
Other people's feelings do NOT have to be similar to mine..... I never expect that. I just have never experienced anything even remotely close to what I could consider demonic. (my ex hubby may tell you that I am demonic) HA HA HA
Posted 3/26/2008 11:17 PM (#4064 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
The Devil came knocking on my door. He's pleading with me to stop this belief that he is not real. That he's seen this before,this musturd seed planted in the mind. If it doesn't stop, he will ceast to exsist. With out him many clergymen will be out of a job because nobody will fear the devil. They'll start taking responability for thier own actions. So I,m working hard with him to except the everything has a begining and a end. I know you've done a a fantastic job but time to start putting out your resumes because you've just been handed your pink slip. But your feats will be remembered in folk lore. Now get back out there while there are many who still believe in you. I'm busy talkin to folks on the path....aceraven, peace out
Posted 3/28/2008 3:49 AM (#4075 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: Maximum Overdrive
" I am not talking about a religious theory, but a quantum physics theory, multiple layers..... all time existing at once. " -quoted from Doc J's original post
Hi Doc: Welcome aboard the train! The crucial part of what you said is what I really want to prove, just so that I can have the vanity of saying that I disproved Einstein. Not to bore you Doc, but for the benefit of other readers, I dispute that time is a non-entity "relative" commodity. I say that: All of time exists; All of time exists at all times; All time exists everywhere. The study of quantum physics and mechanics lead me to this conclusion. How dare one arrive at these conclusions? Okay, ask yourself..better yet, answer yourself... If there was a "Big Bang" that created all we know and perceive, what was before the Big Bang?
Timeless Peace, Marty and Nine Lived cats, Luck, Popp, and Sissy
Posted 3/28/2008 8:12 AM (#4078 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
Ahhhh, yes, I did say something along those lines. I have to agree with ya... as far as time being a funky thing. We experience it all at once. I believe we can travel time, by thought, because it's only layers away. I believe this to be how psychic abilities work to a degree, but cannot put my finger on it.
I do think a non-physical realm is time-less. I think time only exists to those who are physical or experiencing decay, as the moment we are born, we start dying. Some last longer, but in physical world, death is inevitable. Yet, it's only a pinch to all of life.... that is eternal.... so why we fret so much about returning home is just because we cannot know for sure, while human. I take that back.... I guess I do know, but i cannot prove my experiences to other people. They have to have their own experiences to come to their own conclusion.
I don't think the time thing has much to do with demons, but it would definitely count for the possibility of Dopplegangers. Which is our own double. If we see multiple layers of time, then we can see ourself. Kinda freaky.....
Posted 3/28/2008 12:19 PM (#4082 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: Seattle, Washington
Hello Marty, kitties and Doc J,
It seems we as humans have had it bred within us to rely on calendars, clocks and other timepieces which provide the illusion that time is a linear and finite thing. Now
obviously this is something for our growth and learning or it wouldn't be here. However, if we strip our human view of time away for a moment, what do we have left?
Everything and nothing, really...timelessness...all existing at once. If you think about it nature shows us how 'time' moves - in a circle, forever existing someplace it has
been untold times before (sun, moon, seasons, planets, etc).
As we all know, time doesn't stop when we die. The world keeps turning, as they say. That would mean, for those of us that believe in past lives, we have lived every one
of our lives in the same span of 'time'. However, we tend to see our life (and in turn, everything else) as having a beginning, a middle and an end rather than just being a
transformation of form. I believe this comes directly from our earth-taught view of time moving and existing only in one direction and in one place. However, when we
begin to apply "infinite thinking" I believe we awaken to those multiple layers the two of you mention.
I did a little experiment once. I decided for an entire weekend I was going to do nothing that allowed me to measure time other than be aware of natural phenomenon. I
told everyone not to call me and don't come over (my family and friends are used to me and my quests, thank goodness). I began at dusk on Friday. I kept the tv and
computer off. I listened to music, I wrote, I painted, I meditated...I lost all track of "mankind time" before sun up on Saturday. By sundown on Sunday, I was living in
the infinite. It was a beautiful, positive experience and highly recommend it to you, Marty, as part of your information gathering on the nature of time and how it exists.
Posted 3/28/2008 1:48 PM (#4086 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
What a wonderful thought to try. That actually would be nice. I am going have to give that one a try. Sounds delightful....
I pretty much live in a very chaotic household, just because there are so many people always coming and going.
Living time free for a break.... sounds like heaven.
Posted 3/29/2008 2:14 PM (#4121 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: United Kingdom
How are things with you, Jill? The time for that will come sooner than you think! You will then be able to enjoy the new experience of finding some peace and quiet. Our life is meant to contain many different lessons; we are not always to repeat the same ones. With love - Aquarius
Posted 3/29/2008 3:02 PM (#4123 - in reply to #1891) Subject: RE: Dopplegangers and Demons -Other explenations
Location: NE Ohio
Things are coming along very well. I will be going back to work slowly next week. Not that I have to do much there, which is a good thing, because it's sooner than my doctor would allow, but i have to make funds, or bills do not get paid. I find it easy to go back to work, because I just sit in a chair anyway. Easy work... I have to use my voice more than anything, which I am already able to do very well. HA HA HA
I am envious sometimes of those who get peace and quiet. lol, and Yes, my time will come when it's needed, I totally agree.