Suicide
Linda K. Arkle
Posted 5/14/2010 7:31 AM (#19465)
Subject: Suicide



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I was curious what you folks think about the ramifications of suicide STRICTLY on what they might be once you return to "the other side." It is my understanding that no one there condemns you for your action, but that there may be a group of guides to help you sort why it happened. I'm not even convinced you can do it unless it really is your time, and you can make matters worse here, or possibly better because people will see you need help, but "here" is not what I'm curious about. If someone does it because they truly are at the end of their life, like the way old American Indian women would wander off into the snow to lay down and die, or in a culture where it is considered the honorable thing to do because of a failure. I don't believe there is any kind of penalty upon return to the other side for it.
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linda j
Posted 5/14/2010 12:44 PM (#19466 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide


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Linda,

I pray that you are not in consideration of such a contemplative act at this moment. Allow me please to share my knowlege about this disturbing matter. I have learned that often times in life a spirit seeking to experience physical life finds that the matters of physical life are unbearable to the point of desiring to check out whether through an illness or an act of suicide in any manner of speaking. You may or may not be aware that we set up in advance of our birth all the criteria necessary to experience the physical life of our choice. It is when that choice is by far more than what a person is willing to endure that thoughts of suicide become the predominant force from within. Having stood on the cusp of checking out of life on more than one occasion here is what I can tell you. If this matter pertains to you may I please tell you that there are underling reasons for any adversities materialized as undesireable circumstances and events along with any perceived failures. If this speaks to you please allow yourself to be open to the discovery of those underlying possibilites. This is critical because you may have wasted a life that could have been ultimately a success with the right guidance. Now as to what lies on the other side, you are correct in your thinking. There is no punishment because no sin was committed because there is no sin. The universal Law of Cause and Effect tends to the matter of what becomes your reality as it relates to your thinking, beliefs, the ones that lie below the surface of conscious awareness as well, as well as your perceptions which could be distorted and deceptive. This is a decison that should not be made without having allowed yourself ample opportunity to engage in a measure of self-discovery and self-analysis. I am here to help you if you so desire my help.

LindaJ
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Linda K. Arkle
Posted 5/14/2010 4:01 PM (#19467 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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I'm fine for now. It's just that the subject fascinates me as part of my interest in why we choose to live this life or any other. I do go through the death contemplation cycle on occasion, so I totally understand how people get there and why some can never get out. I always snap out of it, not necessarily by choice. It just happens. My specific course of study is what causes someone, like maybe myself, to choose a life where there is no real sense of accomplishment now matter how hard we try. I know so many people personally who have spent their life busting their ass to make something out of themselves, very brilliant people, and still can't pull it off. However what I find more alarming is the increase in teen suicide. That was when I went through my first death cycle so I understand how they feel. I had truly wonderful parents and a very sheltered life growing up, so I never had a valid excuse, but teens today seem to have it much worse in general, partly due to the failed relationships of their parents and their divorces and custody fights. I never came close to trying it. I just studied religious and spiritual references. But I wonder why now so many young people are willing to throw it all away so easily. What is so attractive about the other side they are willing to get there so prematurely?
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Allen
Posted 5/15/2010 12:21 PM (#19468 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide


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Linda

If I remember correctly (from some early Biology classes) most species - when overpopulated, have Biological drives that prompt the finding of ways to adjust their population.

The Human population on Planet Earth is overpopulated. So we have tendencies (choices for population-reducing activities are more easily made) toward ongoing wars; assisted suicide; rationed health care; and among some, a choice to opt out of life.

That does not mean that we condon these activities. Indeed, any such actions add negative energy to the Collective Consciousness and bears with it a heavy Karmic Debt. The result is, the need for our meditations, thoughts of peace, prayers for peace (whatever we call it) takes on greater significance - they become more necessary.

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linda j
Posted 5/15/2010 12:58 PM (#19470 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide, life and the matter of livingness


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Linda,

The attraction is simply this: physical life is too dam difficult for the younger sect so they throw in the towel not necessarily prematurely because maybe they only came to try physcial life out. In other words, they placed on their physical life certain restrictions, that if it goes wrong there is an out, difficult at best from the human side. Remember that we are the embodiment of spiritual livingness first and physical life is merely the manifestation of our desire for physical expression not the other way around. Specifically we are not human first and then through death reveive a spiritual body. God provided us with the means to express our spirits in the physical plane through His marvelous creation of the human body and so that we can communicate with him consciously but we don't always because we don't know how. The reason why we need a physical body is simple because there is no other way to express a physical life without a physical body. God knew what he was doing! But that's a whole other topic of discussion.

How we choose to experience physical life is a choice we make in the spiritual plane first and is not a requirement by anyone including God other than the one we place upon ourselves nor or we obligated to see physical life through. That is why there can be no sin. Life on all planes of livingness follows Law, the Law of Cause and Effect, the Law of Attraction. What we choose to attract to ourselves consciously or unconsciously (through habit) becomes our affect manifested in our circumstances and events. There can be no sin because life is to be experienced otherwise there can be no evolution and the Law of Nature is to continually evolutionize - not punish. Nothing in life remains stagnet ever. Now physical life becomes what it does because we are not connected to our spirit livingness via our conscious awareness - our Mind. While our spirits work hard to communicate with our conscious mind we have a strong tendency to override that still small voice from within. Many religions place the God concept as being the that still small voice when in fact it is the voice of our very own spirit attemtping to carry out is physical expression. God gave us free will to carry out the business of life in any plane of existence in any realm and in any dimension relative to our awareness in terms of acquired knowledge, so it stands to reason then why would God give you a free will and then try to override it through a still small voice. The voice you hear is your own - in spirit!

Consequently we live physical life primarily through the conscious awareness of our physical surroundings processed through our thoughts, beliefs, and perceptions habituated in the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind is subjective to the conscious mind and will always obey its orders. It is not until we become "intune" with our spirits that we come to understand life in the spiritual plane and equally understand God in the spiritual and physical plane. Notice that I did not say life "on" the spiritual plane but that I said life "in" the spiritual plane. That is because consciousness exists in not on, it is not a place it is a level of awareness. You are simultanously existing in the spiritual plane just as you are existing on the physical plane and the purpose of your physcial life was meant to fulfill a spiritual desire expressed in physical terms.

Many people incarnate because they failed to fulfil their own spiritual desire or they are seeking another expression of the spiritual self. The possibilities of physical expression are infinite as are the probablities and equally so are the number of physical life's required to experience an infinite number of possibilities and probabilities. Life is as infinite as is the universe is infinite so if you checked out early in life it doesn't mean you can't come back. You can and will do so by setting up ahead of time other variables and conditions that may work more favorably for you in the next go around. However, do not consider checking out unless you have given yourself a fair chance to search out other possibilites, to turn over rocks that may contain the keys to the success of your physical expression in this life time. I speak from experience because this lifetime was a disaster for me but rather than checking out I decided not to waste the experience and use it in a useful and constructive manner that can in the long run benefit mankind because we do have an obligation to the race at large as well as to the universe at large. Consequently, my success in failing to achieve what my spirit had intended to achieve led me to a metaphysical professional endeavor to help others find their freedom from the bondages of a physical life gone wrong with the hope that good can come from the undesirable experiences and succeed in the attempted endeavor and so much more. I took the liberty to add to the RE: so as to draw a greater awareness of what is being discussed in this thread.

Hope this helps in some way...

Peace and blessings,

LindaJ
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alpha+omega
Posted 5/16/2010 11:24 AM (#19472 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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I sure hope nobody is contemplating anything like that. How will you find out if my little birdie theory of Metaphysics will work with BP? (Actually, finally a ray of hope this morning, although I was astounded that all that brain trust/pyramid of psychophants had never counted on Bernoulli Effect freezing the gas liquids.) How would you know how it goes with little ol' me up against the banks of the world, and how our ragtag team of upstarts fares pitting them against each other? Life would really have to suck not to want to see how that metaphysically engineered trainwreck turns out! So hang in there...

Best,

mike

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Paul Joseph
Posted 5/16/2010 12:00 PM (#19473 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Having turned this topic over and over a number of times - over the years and lifetimes - , partly in personal terms and partly professional, the spiritual truth that for me ultimately would prevent me from suicide is that, we have turned up here and now for learning, whatever that is, and in that, each of us has our purpose, whether we can see it or not. To 'take our own life' would ipso facto mean that we had inserted our decision into that destiny, and we would simply be required, have to, return again, and again, until we had arrived at the end of whatever or wherever that learning was taking us.

For me, I am saying, and feel absolutely, that suicide is a kind of karmic cul de sac, but that unlike a cul de sac, it would simply invole us in returning and repeating, until we got beyond that moment in our decision making that led us to feel that the 'only' answer was to 'end it all'.

So I would rather not have to come back to repeat the exercise

Edited by Paul Joseph 5/16/2010 12:01 PM
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Ophiucus
Posted 5/16/2010 2:44 PM (#19475 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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As Christine has said, 'no-one gets out alive'

We are in illusion. Life, death, love, sex, physicality, non-physicality, duality, non-duality, mind, body, spirit, this that is being written, words on the pages, thoughts in the mind

are no more nor less than reflections in the Divine Mind

Between the illusion that is in this reality our first reality, birth, and our ultimate reality, in this reality, death, with dreams surrounding each, it is, perhaps, what we do in between that matters: and if not, then the beatific Divine merely offers us another opportunity.

Maybe though, best make best use of this One
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linda j
Posted 5/17/2010 3:35 PM (#19477 - in reply to #19473)
Subject: RE: Suicide


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Paul,

Can relate personally been there a few times myself. Lived on a cul de sac back in my teen years until I left home. Great analogy and excellent thought...

Lindaj
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DooDah
Posted 5/21/2010 4:42 PM (#19486 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide


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I was in danger with suicide at one point more than any other point when I was young because for moment I thought that what I really needed was just a break from life and come back later and pick up where I left off, even if that would suck to have to do this again, but fortunately I didn't do it and eventually the suffering passed. Life is hard sometimes, and you just have to live through it and later it gets a little better and better as time goes on.
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leo
Posted 5/21/2010 9:14 PM (#19490 - in reply to #19486)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Good move DooDah, if you think this life sucks, try coming back after a suicide. then you'll see what truly sucks is like. Thats exactly why I'm dealing with my bad karma now. It would be far worse as we wouldn't know what we know now. I can't imagine being here with no knowledge of my spiritual mentor or guide.
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Aquarius
Posted 5/22/2010 7:34 AM (#19491 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: The spiritual Aspects of Depression & Suicide



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You’re sick of the game? Well, now that’s a shame.
 You’re young and you’re brave and you’re bright.
You’ve had a raw deal!’ I know – but don’t squeal,
 Buck up, do your darnedest, and fight.
It’s the plugging away that will win you the day,
 So don’t be a piker, old pard!
Just draw on your grit, it’s so easy to quit.
 It’s the keeping-your chin-up that’s hard.

It’s easy to cry that you’re beaten – and die;
 It’s easy to crawfish and crawl;
But to fight and to fight when hope’s out of sight –
 Why that’s the best game of them all!
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
 All broken and battered and scarred,
Just have one more try – it’s dead easy to die,
 It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

From: ‘The Quitter’ by Robert W. Service
‘Rhymes of a Rolling Stone’

What a beautiful world we live in! Looking at it, the age old question comes to mind: ‘Why is there so much sadness and suffering in it?’ Without finding an answer to this question and unable to see an end to our own misery and that witnessed throughout our whole world, it is all too easy for human minds to imperceptibly slide into ever deeper states of depression, until in the end for some suicide may seem to be the only way out.

The Statistics speak for themselves and reveal that for far too many of us this indeed is the case. Worst of all affected seems to be Japan where, up until recently, an average of 30,000 people committed suicide every year. That was sad enough, but according to Japan’s National Police Agency, in the year 2007 nearly 100 Japanese killed themselves every day; the total for that year was over 33,000. This represented a rise of three per cent on the previous year and it was the tenth year in a row that the figure exceeded 30,000. And that is a clear demonstration of how the suicide rate of that country – in common with the other countries of the developed world – has by now reached epidemic proportions.

This part of my ‘The Random Jottings of a Stargazer’ is dedicated to sharing some of my insights and reflections on the sister subjects depression and suicide. It aims to shed a chink of light and a ray of hope into these themes, as to me they represent one of the darkest corners of our earthly existence. With the help of God and the Angels I hope to reach some of those ‘out there’, who have got lost in the mists of the illusion of this life. My heart goes out to all who can no longer see their way forward and through to the end of the dark tunnel, which our present state can all too frequently be. In my view, for as long the human soul remains unaware of the higher meaning and spiritual background of its present existence, this cannot change.

Because of the urgency of this issue I hope to reach as many as possible. In case you yourself are feeling depressed and at times possibly even suicidal – who does not get into that frame of mind sometimes? – you might like to follow the link below and take a printout of the whole article and retreat with it to a quiet place where you can read it in peace. If you are one of the fortunate ones who are not afflicted by this condition, be thankful and count your blessings. In case there is someone around you who is, maybe you could show your love and concern for them by presenting them with a copy of their own. Who knows? You might be able to get through to them on some level. The way I see it, the least you and I can do together is try.

From ‘The Spiritual Aspects of Depression and Suicide’

With love and light,
Aquarius

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Linda K. Arkle
Posted 5/23/2010 7:05 AM (#19494 - in reply to #19490)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Leo,
You might have some of the information I was looking for. What happened on the other side of life once you had done the deed that made it an issue you regretted? I hope you can talk about this because my interest is in what motivates us to choose our lives. And why is it making this life more difficult for you? Were there others on the other side who judged you for what you did? If so, were they peers or just people/spirits who have a high opinion of themselves? Did anyone try to help you sort out why you did it?

One thing I have noticed from many channeling sessions is that the personality and attitudes of a spirit who has crossed over remain relatively intact. So if they were nasty or judgemental here, they would be the same on the other side. And if you accept their negative judgement of you as valid, you could unknowingly carry that with you here. I know of people who all they do is judge others. They are nasty people who have no ability to see how pathetic they themselves are. I just feel sorry for these people, and I certainly don't accept their judgement of me or anyone else. I just avoid them to the best of my ability. You don't seem like someone who would let a self-appointed judge get to you. Or maybe that is the lesson you are learning here is to not let someone like that control you, as these truly are control issues. In any case, I hope you will share how and why your own suicide from a previous life has affected you in your life between this one and the pervious one, and how it is affecting you in this one.
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Aquarius
Posted 5/23/2010 8:24 AM (#19496 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: Nobody suddenly turns into an Angel



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NOBODY SUDDENLY TURNS INTO AN ANGEL OR GOES STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN

In my view, the purpose of all life is evolution and through each subsequent lifetime we are meant to grow at least a bit more like our true self, until we have once again become whole or holy on all levels of our existence. And as established, we are here to grow into seekers of wisdom and truth, in the hope of finding enlightenment. Yet, this will not come to anyone on its own and it surely isn’t going to drop like Manna down from the Heavens, i.e. the Highest levels of life. It can only be found whilst we are in this earthly life and there it has to be reached for and worked at very hard, because in this way alone the spiritual knowledge we discover can become a permanent part of our character make-up.

Even the least evolved souls upon their return into the world of spirit cannot help noticing that in truth they are spirit and soul, eternal and immortal beings of light. At the end of each lifetime, every one of us without exception returns to our true home, the world of spirit, where we rest and recuperate from the trials and tribulations of Earth life. Having once again been released onto that level of life, the freedom we enjoy there may well feel like heavenly bliss, but Heaven itself – the final oneness with God – it is not. Nobody suddenly turns into an Angel at the time of leaving life in physicality and goes straight to Heaven. Yet, whatever degree of consciousness we have reached on the earthly side of the veil, during any given lifetime, we take with us into the world of light.

Apart from leaving our physical body nothing changes at the moment of death. The one we have been on the Earth plane is the same one we shall encounter and have to grapple with in our other world. What we can hope to find on the other side depends on the quality of life we are leading here – more of the same awaits us beyond. Any wisdom we accumulate during each one of our earthly sojourns will always be ours to keep forever. We bring it with us into all subsequent lifetimes, so it can support us and make life easier to cope with, which sets us free for lessons of a different kind. Can you see the great importance and urgency of getting to work on improving our character whilst we are here?

To sum things up, because we are aware of our true nature in the world of spirit, our other world and true home, our spiritual vision is bound to be clearer and more expansive.  Come to think of it, the world of spirit is not our other world – not even that! It is merely another part of our world that becomes invisible to earthly eyes, upon each entry into new physical body. That is all!

From ‘Astrology on the Healing Journey’

With love and light,
Aquarius

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leo
Posted 5/23/2010 9:32 AM (#19497 - in reply to #19494)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Linda K. First let me fix an error, I never committed suicide. I suppose you could say that in a way I did. I passed over in my one previous incarnation because I was pig headed and wouldn't listen to reason. My wife at that time (Jessica) tried her best to reason with me. I refused to listen and passed due to colon cancer.

That being said, I'll adress the questions you have. Let me start by saying this information is not me personnaly speaking. My spirit mentor, Zennia the Master Of All Things has over the past two years taught me and my wife (Linda J) many wonderful lessons. One of those being reincarnation and what happens upon passing. We are met by various spirits depending on the number of life experiences you have had. If you are a relative new soul (as I am) you are met by family, friends and your spirit guide. Now the interesting part is, I usually say that you are taken to your spirit realm, but you never left your spirit realm. Your spirit isn't always with you. It travels about taking care of business (if you will). I used to say that you are rejoined with your spirit but that isn't correct, because you never were separated.

Now about your spirit home, once you pass over you are given an opportunity to consider the life experience you've just completed. There is NEVER any kind of judgement, never any punishment from others. You are simply asked how you feel about your experience. At that point the only punishment you might have is inflicted upon yourself. It is a feeling of guilt. Yes, spirits have feelings. At that point you have a time of reflection. You enter a training phase, for lack of a better term.

Then you decide what it is that you need to do to correct this situation (if Necessary) You may want to come back just to experience a particular experience. If you have had a less that honorable previous existence you may be directed to come back and repair the wrongs. (Karma) Based on these things you then begin the process of returning to earth. You then have an opportunity to pick your parents, friends and other things that will put you on your path to a sucessful life experience. There is an however, you don't get to know what you've choosen. Because of free will you are then able to either listen to that inner voice (spirit guide) or do something entirely off the chain.

We do carry over things we have learned in a previous existence. I was a teacher in my first experience and have been a teacher in this one. Other negative traits came along as well , stubborn, into self(ego) after all I am wonderful. Wrong thinking. We need to be humble but still not allow people to walk on us. Be self assured not overbearing. As you stated there are many who frankly are not aware of who they really are. I was one of those who judged and now am aware of the pitfalls of free will. I suggest that when you are around negative people, don't let them drag you into it. Remain loving and remember that they just haven't arrived yet. Let your spirit shine through. They just might wonder what it is that you have that they don't.

The more you understand who you really are in this experience, the more likely you will stay on you path and future paths. You are first spirit and the sooner you know that the better you will be for it. The more existences you've had the more likely you will be to follow your path (conscious awareness). I have had the honor of hearing this from Zennia the Master Of All Things.

Since tihis is only my second existence, I have had a wonderful opportunity to know where I am supposed to be in my next visit. I've been told exactly what I need to do to bring this into my awareness the next time around. The critical part is knowing that you are created from the All That Is, through His/Herconnsciousness and that you are SPIRIT First!

If you get a chance, I'd recommend you looking into Esther and Jerry Hicks. As Esther has her guide Abraham speak to matters of spiritual being. You'll find many youtube presentations. That is if you haven't already.


Many blessings to you on you path to conscious awareness
Leo

ps throughout this information, my spirit guide Amphibious has been giving me confirmations. We haven't gotten to the verbal responses yet but she gives me chills when I speak of spiritual matters.

Edited by leo 5/23/2010 9:39 AM
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leo
Posted 5/23/2010 10:14 PM (#19498 - in reply to #19496)
Subject: RE: Nobody suddenly turns into an Angel



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Aquarius, I for one know an angel right here right now. She will indeed go back to her angelic realm. As close to heaven as it gets, because there is no heaven as such. She may stay or she may come back, her choice. She is truly of the angelic realm.
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Aquarius
Posted 5/24/2010 6:59 AM (#19499 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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How truly blessed you are, dear Leo. Thank you for sharing this with us here.

I am sure Angels are walking in our midst to teach us by their good example. The way I perceive this life is each one of us has been placed here to learn how, through playing the role of Earth Angels, to become ever more like the Angels. What's your view?

With love - Aquarius

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leo
Posted 5/24/2010 8:31 AM (#19500 - in reply to #19499)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Aquarius, Not sure if you are speaking in terms of spiritual Angels or physical human ones. This one I speak of is quite human in every sense. Long story on how she got here.

I don't believe we are to become Angels, we are certainly here to learn but in the end we will be more like the Masters. That is a long way off for most of us. We have Masters that have been incarnated to be leaders and to set examples of how we should become. It is indeed a tenuous journey but a worthy one. If you give thought to it, you should come up with who the Masters were and are.

That being said, I can assure you that we for the most part will not become Angels.
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DooDah
Posted 6/1/2010 12:30 AM (#19506 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide


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Some lifetimes are all about the experience of not being highly successful and accomplish a lot of goals. I think we have to do all kinds of lifetimes, not just successful ones, to get a complete education on Earth. Some lifetimes were about suicide too, that we've already had, so that we know how the human condition gets there, and then we get a lifetime to complete that part of the education on Earth, where we decide not to do it, sort it all out, and move on from that human condition tendency, to give up when there is disappointment, loss, failure, etc. At some point we have to make a different decision, and this is just like Suicide 101, 102 and 103, just like we have to take Misuse of Power 101, 102 and 103, and then we also get to have Being the King 101, 102, and 103, stuff like that. We can't just take all the dance classes and art classes at college, we have to take hard ones too.
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leo
Posted 6/1/2010 8:59 AM (#19510 - in reply to #19506)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Very well stated DooDah. We really come to experience different things for our basic education. After a while and with enough experiences we move up the ladder to higher consciousness. A new plane of existence, we are ever evolving. We eventually get to the point of knowing why we are here. As you may know, Seth had many experiences and now he is sort of God's right hand man. There are many spiritual entities working with we humans. It would be sad to think that God created us and left us to fend for ourselves. He did give us free will but he also gave us spirit guides and angels to help. We only need to believe and ask for help.

In the matter of suicide, we go back to the spiritual plane and get redirected. We have an "Ah-ha" moment and then quickly sent back to finish what was intended. There is never any punishment simply "ok now get back to it". I am not in any way telling anyone to move in that direction. It is by far better to think it through in the present than to start over. Seek spiritual guidence before any decision is made. Perhaps some suicides may be what the spirit came for. It is all about what you decided for your experience prior to your birth.
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alpha+omega
Posted 6/2/2010 2:07 AM (#19511 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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These are all tremendous views on the topic. But I especially like the Robert Service poem from Aquarius. Seems to fit the trials and tribulations I was going through, but have since transcended with a little... well, more like massive... amount of perseverance. Kudos to all you guys and gals (guy-ettes?)
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cause
Posted 6/21/2010 8:29 PM (#19537 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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I thought i would share my personal experience of an attempted suicide. I will spare you most details. A person whom I was speaking with stated that they had swallowed a bottle of pills. While speaking with the 911 operator I suddenly became furious. My thought was 'how dare he attempt suicide while I was enjoying a pleasant visit with my neighbor.' I literally shouted at him. I, when a person was in crisis, was severely short and impatient to the extreme. I have no excuse, none. Love when needed is often lacking. I was not loving at that time. the man survived the experience. the pills he took where not as life threatening as he momentarily desired. I am very happy he survived the ordeal. The striking thought I have of the experience is that I was the one who didn't panic. I know first-aid. I, at the time, had a CPR certification. I simply had no sympathy. I feel 'empty' when speaking of the experience, a vacuous jerk. I know nothing of what happens on "the other side" when you commit suicide. I know simply that it is kinder than I was at the time.

I cannot approve of suicide. It is not in my immediate nature. I know sacrifice can be ennobling. I have now nothing more to say. I know life is better.


Edited by cause 6/21/2010 8:31 PM
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leo
Posted 6/22/2010 7:37 PM (#19538 - in reply to #19537)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Dear Cause, Not being familar with your spiritual understanding, I'll pass on what I've learned from my spiritual mentor. Now, before we go to far, my mentor is a nonphysical spiritual being (my wifes spirit guide). Not sure how you stand on channeled spirits, there is one amoung us who I know thinks it's bunk. However, there seems to be a fair amount of people who show up to listen to Abraham (Ester Hicks spiritual friend) and then there are many who purchase Seth's books. (Jane Roberts).

Now I've not spoken to Abraham, probably could but not led to. There have been many whom I've spoken to regarding questions that each was an expert in their fields. I know sounds crazy, but I'm not. Anyway, what happens to one who ends his particular journey prior to it's official end? First, there isn't ever any kind of punishment, the Almighty nor anyone else would ever punish. The idea is to find out what went wrong, why did they take their own life? The primary thing is to get them to understand why and then get them back as soon as possible. When we who pass because we determined it was time, have a long period of time (there really isn't any time as such) anyway it's hard to explain time in the planes of existence. Our time is linear there's is verticle, everything, past, present and future is right now. Really difficult to understand. The idea for a normal passing involves those who reside in our particular plane. We do have the ability to travel amoung other planes.

We share our experiences and determine if we want to return and what it is we wish to accomplish in the next existence. We can plan with others to meet up for whatever reason we chose. I'll really blow your socks off now, your mother in this existence could be you son in the next or your sister your father or your brother your best friend any combination is possible, depending on how you are all related in spirit. Again sounds crazy but it isn't. Have you ever met someone who you feel you've known before? Chances are you have, in a different life.

I've gone above and beyond again, it's just too interesting to keep to myself. Actually there are many amoung us who know, if you happen to be one, sorry for the dissertation.

PS the postings above by Linda J, thats my wife. Post 19470 above was in part dictated by my wifes spirit guide.

Edited by leo 6/22/2010 7:56 PM
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cause
Posted 6/22/2010 10:38 PM (#19542 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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the Idea that God would never punish is in agreement with my thoughts on the nature of the afterlife. the Idea that the object of any sort of judgement is to find an answer to find the difficultys of a persons life is also in my belief. I hope more perople come to this distinction. The thought that God is there to punish leads to the thought that a person in this life should punish and often this is unreasonably. the argument that this justification is arrived at is the extention that if God does it there could be nothing wrong in acting similarly. this becomes an unfortunate misunderstanding. In truth I do not know the atributes of the afterlife. I can only extend what I have been taught by others, in religion and faith or by others claimed experience. The ramifications of suicide I am therfore unsure of.

I can declare I am further unsure of any sort of understanding that could aid those that survive a person whom has commited suicide. The aid in this matter is more than difficult. And, perhaps it is best spoken about by someone of much experience with pastorial care than I have. The problem is one that has few answers in western thought if such a distinction exists. I hope this changes.



Edited by cause 6/22/2010 10:38 PM
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leo
Posted 6/23/2010 10:22 AM (#19545 - in reply to #19542)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Dear Cause, I understand what you're saying. There is the belief that because Jesus supposedly suffered on the cross (still up for debate), then we as Christians (if you are, I'm not) should also suffer. The Catholic Church has in the past observed mortification of the flesh. Not now as prevalent but still around. Many of our fellow humans feel a great need to suffer.

We were created out of the I AM's consciousness which is out of love for His creations. If and a really big if, everyone was in full awareness of their spirit, the world would be a far better place. Probably the biggest understatement of the year. If there was that understanding, then we wouldn't morn our dead, for we would not think them dead but a spirit that has gone back to his/her happy place. Many who pass from this existence are quite happy with returning to the spiritual planes, those who are not sure will find out.

It isn't about the passing, it's about the one's left behind who don't understand about the passing. When the passing occures in old age, loved ones say, "He/She is in a better place". When the passing is sudden, as in suicide,
there is anger and hurt. We must admit that a person who takes his/her life is selfish and has no consideration for the ones left behind, but we must also consider that maybe that was what the person wanted to do. Sounds crazy but we do come here from previous life experiences to experience something of value in the new life. We have the ability to chose exactly what knowledge we want to gain from the next experience.

Seth, who calls himself an "Energy personality essence" (nonphysical spiritul entity) discussed many of his life experiences while dictating his material through Jane Roberts. He said that he had been rich, a well to do merchant, a pope, an artist and others. Then he came to experience being poor, just to see how poor people exist. He came as a women, had many children (each with a different father) and begged for food. He said that a stale bread crust was as fine as a piece of cake. It's all in our preception.

What I'm speaking comes from my heart, I am in the processi of becoming a sort of guide, if you will. Not in this lifetime but in my next. To assist those who are not certain of this thing called life and what happens afterwards. To better understand the religious aspects of the major religions in order to help them. My major areas are religions and reincarnation. I should have my masters soon and working on my dissertation (religion v Metaphysics) hope to have my PhD in metaphysical theology within the next 3-4 months.

Jake or Jacob as I'm known in my plane of existence
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cause
Posted 6/25/2010 10:16 PM (#19553 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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I understand your position and the position of empathy. My intolerance of the person spoken of was a callous act and not truly defensible or a proper statement of empathy. Your statement about the act being there decision is of course true and understanding. I hope the lack of empathy and understanding can be avoided whatever a persons belief system or method of dealing with grief. I have not read the Seth series and cannot comment in that regard. I hope I can discuss later.


cause

Edited by cause 6/25/2010 10:18 PM
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leo
Posted 6/26/2010 9:45 AM (#19556 - in reply to #19553)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Dear Cause, You had a natural human reaction to an unkown. Don't belittle yourself as many would have responded in like fashion. A person cannot often feel sympathy in such an event, it represents something that we find distastful. It's like what were you thinking? The person who commits such an act is generally overcome with a feeling of worthlessness of despair and just gives up. Perhaps that's why they came, to understand how it feels to give up on life. This could certainly help in the next life experience. When coming into contact with that situation, you could honestly say to that person, I know how you feel.

Seth has some really excellent information to share. If you are interested it might be good to start at the begining with "The Seth Material" All of his work was dictated while Jane Roberts was in trance. That way there could be no interference on the part of Jane. Seth's work is begining to reappear. More are becoming aware of a subtle undercurrent of spiritual awareness.
Bless you
Leo
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mruppert
Posted 6/26/2010 8:56 PM (#19567 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Everyone, for at least on movement of time, considers suicide. Having said that I am so embarrassed I WISH I WERE DEAD.
See what I mean !

Peace of mind,
Marty and Luck, Popp, Siss

(Sissy is barely a pound now.....do you think she wants to end it all??????????)
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leo
Posted 6/27/2010 8:06 AM (#19580 - in reply to #19567)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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I'm sory to hear that Sissy is obviously not well. As you know, I have several cats. I'm always saddened to hear when one is not well or has passed.

Edited by leo 6/27/2010 8:20 AM
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mruppert
Posted 6/27/2010 9:48 AM (#19585 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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Thank you Leo.....she is otherwise the same as ever, she just doesn't gain any weight any more.
Old age my friend.....................

Peace,
Marty and the Wild Bunch
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leo
Posted 6/27/2010 10:11 AM (#19588 - in reply to #19585)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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The question is whether suicide is the way out, or the way in.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than anything I have ever done; it is a far, far, better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.
- Charles Dickens


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cause
Posted 7/4/2010 11:09 PM (#19605 - in reply to #19465)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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"I'm going out for a walk. I may be some time."

Captain Oates
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leo
Posted 7/5/2010 4:03 PM (#19606 - in reply to #19605)
Subject: RE: Suicide



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His death is seen as an act of self-sacrifice when, aware his ill health was compromising his three companions' chances of survival, he chose certain death.

Not sure where you're going with this, hopefully you're not at the south pole.

Blessings
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